What Would the World Look Like if Run by New Atheists?

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What Would the World Look Like if Run by New Atheists?

#1

Post by Stu » Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:00 pm

Found an interesting article on Evolution News and Views.
I'll post a couple snippets and if you're interested check out the entire piece on ENV here:
What Would the World Look Like if the New Atheists Won the Day?

On Christmas I had to run into the office briefly and discovered two new atheist books I'd ordered had arrived: Sean Faircloth's Attack of the Theocrats and Penn Jillette's God, No!. Nice Christmas present to myself! I've since read enough to report that they provide quite a contrast: The former suggests that religious people everywhere are trying to create "theocracy" and encourages atheists to hide their anti-religious goals, while the latter unashamedly shows that the real threat to religious freedom comes from new atheists themselves.

The foreword to Fairchild's book was written by, of course, Richard Dawkins. Dawkins take the occasion to argue that the real intent of the Founders was that "the United States was to be kept free of religion's suffocating foot" and to say he hopes to "return America to its secular roots." (p. 13) Fairchild follows Dawkins by claiming he wants to establish a "Secular Decade" as they implement the "Secular Decade strategic plan." (p. 131)

Part of that plan is that atheists should hide the more radical aspects of their agenda, the ones that don't win them any goodwill from the public, and instead focus on "marketing" concerns that get them good PR. Don't believe me? It's right here in his book.

Fairchild thus maintains the pretense of caring deeply about religious liberties for everyone, as he writes, "We must protect the religious liberties guaranteed in the Constitution, including the rights of the so-called Moral Majority and their allies to express their ideas with absolute freedom." (p. 139) But what would really happen if the Secular Decade took place? Would religious persons really have "absolute freedom"? To find out, let's look at what rank and file atheists think. For example, consider Penn Jillette's new book God, No!

Penn Jillette, for those who don't know, is one half of the famous "Penn & Teller" magic team. Jillette lays out in plain terms what a Secular Decade might truly look like. Consider the closing argument from his book:
The respect for faith, the celebration of faith, is dangerous. It's faith itself that's wrong. I deny terrorists the moral right to have faith in a god that will reward them for killing people with airplanes. That means I have to deny Christians the moral right to a faith that Jesus Christ died for their sins. That means I have to deny the warm, fuzzy faith that there's some positive conscious energy guiding the universe. That means I have to get pissed off when Luke Skywalker trusts "the force." ...
F*** faith.

(Penn Jillette, God, No!: Signs You May Already Be an Atheist and Other Magical Tales, p. 229 (Simon & Schuster, 2011).)
Amazingly, in this same paragraph, Jillette says about atheists, "We have love."
Only when the blood runs and the shackles restrain, will the sheep then awake. When all is lost.

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Re: What Would the World Look Like if Run by New Atheists?

#2

Post by wrain62 » Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:22 pm

I saw it written somewhere that,
even moderate faith is dangerous as it allows cults and extremists to flourish in their existence.
Romans 12:17 Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everybody.

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Re: What Would the World Look Like if Run by New Atheists?

#3

Post by Danieltwotwenty » Sun Jan 15, 2012 1:22 am

What they always seem to ignore is that it takes faith to be an atheist as well. :roll:
Well I guess the great tribulation may not be that far away.


Dan
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Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners of whom I am the worst. But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life. Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever.Amen.

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Re: What Would the World Look Like if Run by New Atheists?

#4

Post by neo-x » Sun Jan 15, 2012 7:59 am

The problem is they don't want there to be a God, they just don't like the idea of it. It is not evidence that they are searching for, rather the prejudice through which they can deny that reason. That is true for most atheists but not all.
It would be a blessing if they missed the cairns and got lost on the way back. Or if
the Thing on the ice got them tonight.

I could only turn and stare in horror at the chief surgeon.
Death by starvation is a terrible thing, Goodsir, continued Stanley.
And with that we went below to the flame-flickering Darkness of the lower deck
and to a cold almost the equal of the Dante-esque Ninth Circle Arctic Night
without.


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Re: What Would the World Look Like if Run by New Atheists?

#5

Post by Canuckster1127 » Sun Jan 15, 2012 8:53 am

New atheists don't even represent all atheists. They're not as vocal, but there are many atheists too who speak out and reject the anti-faith and anti-religious message and activism of Dawkins and company.

This is an example I found easily on a blog. I know beyond this that there have been articles too with this same theme given in humanist magazines.

http://fritanke.no/index.php?page=vis_n ... hetID=8484 (Linked to illustrate a point, not to endorse the point of view.)

There are a lot of people who describe themselves as Atheists, Humanists and Agnostics who have no more use and respect for "New Atheists" than do Mainstream Christians when questioned about extreme fundamentalist such as Fred Phelps and Westboro Baptist Church. In fact, and I agree with this analogy, there are some who think Dawkins and his New Atheist proponents have more in common with extreme religious fundamentalists than they do with the more moderate and reasoned center.

Just a thought ....
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Re: What Would the World Look Like if Run by New Atheists?

#6

Post by Stu » Sun Jan 15, 2012 10:32 am

@Canuckster1127
Yeah you make a good point, targeting all atheists would be wrong. It's specifically New atheists that is referred to. I mean I have friends who are atheist and by no means come anywhere close to the likes of someone like Dawkins, and are better people than some who claim to be Christian. You can have nothing but respect for a man like Antony Flew for instance.

However just like many areas in life it is the extremists that get the headlines; and in this case groups like the NCSE and people such as Dawkins and Myers who are front and centre pushing their secularist anti-religious rhetoric through books and media.
Problem is it's infective; followers, even moderate ones soon feel their combative style is the norm and acceptable, it's the way you treat the "religious crazies". It's especially dangerous as they purport to represent a majority.. even if they do not.
Only when the blood runs and the shackles restrain, will the sheep then awake. When all is lost.

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Re: What Would the World Look Like if Run by New Atheists?

#7

Post by StMonicaGuideMe » Tue Feb 28, 2012 2:55 am

This board wouldn't exist and we wouldn't be having this conversation! :D
To sustain the belief that there is no God, atheism has to demonstrate infinite knowledge, which is tantamount to saying, “I have infinite knowledge that there is no being in existence with infinite knowledge".

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Re: What Would the World Look Like if Run by New Atheists?

#8

Post by Stu » Wed Feb 29, 2012 8:27 am

StMonicaGuideMe wrote:This board wouldn't exist and we wouldn't be having this conversation! :D
:lol:



...y:O2
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Re: What Would the World Look Like if Run by New Atheists?

#9

Post by Pierson5 » Sat Mar 24, 2012 12:11 am

http://www.secularhumanism.org/index.ph ... erman_26_5

Many sites such as this claim: lower infant mortality, crime, and even abortions rates have gone down in secular societies. But, looking at societies as a whole and trying to find correlations between these things is hard to do. There may be other factors involved. This doesn't necessarily mean religion is off the hook mind you. More studies need to be done. It's an interesting topic.
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Re: What Would the World Look Like if Run by New Atheists?

#10

Post by Canuckster1127 » Sat Mar 24, 2012 9:15 am

Pierson5 wrote:http://www.secularhumanism.org/index.ph ... erman_26_5

Many sites such as this claim: lower infant mortality, crime, and even abortions rates have gone down in secular societies. But, looking at societies as a whole and trying to find correlations between these things is hard to do. There may be other factors involved. This doesn't necessarily mean religion is off the hook mind you. More studies need to be done. It's an interesting topic.
Social issues are always going to be faced with several confounding issues and the maxim that correlation is not necessarily causation. Social science doesn't have the luxury of a controlled environment for the purposes of comparison in most instances.
Dogmatism is the comfortable intellectual framework of self-righteousness. Self-righteousness is more decadent than the worst sexual sin. ~ Dan Allender

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Re: What Would the World Look Like if Run by New Atheists?

#11

Post by StMonicaGuideMe » Wed Mar 28, 2012 9:11 pm

Stu wrote:
StMonicaGuideMe wrote:This board wouldn't exist and we wouldn't be having this conversation! :D
:lol:



...y:O2
Did I just blow your mind? :P

Indeed, I agree with Canuckster.

The real test would be to witness how these "advanced secular societies" act when their legal controls, supplies and laws disappear. Recall "Lord of the Flies"? I'm not sure our human nature will ever truly evolve to the state many claim it's already in. I haven't seen enough evidence of it at least. y:-?
To sustain the belief that there is no God, atheism has to demonstrate infinite knowledge, which is tantamount to saying, “I have infinite knowledge that there is no being in existence with infinite knowledge".

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Re: What Would the World Look Like if Run by New Atheists?

#12

Post by neo-x » Thu Mar 29, 2012 3:18 am

Recall "Lord of the Flies"
Excellent read, love the novel. ;)
It would be a blessing if they missed the cairns and got lost on the way back. Or if
the Thing on the ice got them tonight.

I could only turn and stare in horror at the chief surgeon.
Death by starvation is a terrible thing, Goodsir, continued Stanley.
And with that we went below to the flame-flickering Darkness of the lower deck
and to a cold almost the equal of the Dante-esque Ninth Circle Arctic Night
without.


//johnadavid.wordpress.com

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Re: What Would the World Look Like if Run by New Atheists?

#13

Post by Callisto » Sun Apr 01, 2012 7:17 pm

I think of "1984" or "Brave New World", or some countries of today like North Korea, where utter evil, propaganda, and twisted thinking pervades the society. The thing is, another religion will replace the one the atheists claim they are trying to eradicate - self-worship, worship of the State, worship of a Great Leader, worship of science itself, and so on. People will have their false gods even if they deny having gods at all.

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Re: What Would the World Look Like if Run by New Atheists?

#14

Post by wrain62 » Mon Apr 02, 2012 7:24 pm

Callisto wrote:I think of "1984" or "Brave New World", or some countries of today like North Korea, where utter evil, propaganda, and twisted thinking pervades the society. The thing is, another religion will replace the one the atheists claim they are trying to eradicate - self-worship, worship of the State, worship of a Great Leader, worship of science itself, and so on. People will have their false gods even if they deny having gods at all.
Not to mention that the religious are more fertile and will just push away the irreligious in demographics by sheer numbers.
Romans 12:17 Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everybody.

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Re: What Would the World Look Like if Run by New Atheists?

#15

Post by StMonicaGuideMe » Wed Apr 04, 2012 7:43 pm

LOL@Wrain. Good point ;) It's a shame, however, how true the predictions of 1984 already are. We already have a culture of self-love (not the same as love of self) and worship of science. False gods still exist in the same way they once did -- money, power, fornication, etc etc. What a time, what a time...
To sustain the belief that there is no God, atheism has to demonstrate infinite knowledge, which is tantamount to saying, “I have infinite knowledge that there is no being in existence with infinite knowledge".

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