Philosophy of Faith

Discussions on a ranges of philosophical issues including the nature of truth and reality, personal identity, mind-body theories, epistemology, justification of beliefs, argumentation and logic, philosophy of religion, free will and determinism, etc.
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B. W.
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Philosophy of Faith

#1

Post by B. W. » Tue Aug 09, 2011 10:07 pm

Yes, that is correct -

Philosophy of Faith

Anyone like to discuss this?
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Re: Philosophy of Faith

#2

Post by neo-x » Tue Aug 09, 2011 11:14 pm

sure, whats on your mind?

interesting topic...
It would be a blessing if they missed the cairns and got lost on the way back. Or if
the Thing on the ice got them tonight.

I could only turn and stare in horror at the chief surgeon.
Death by starvation is a terrible thing, Goodsir, continued Stanley.
And with that we went below to the flame-flickering Darkness of the lower deck
and to a cold almost the equal of the Dante-esque Ninth Circle Arctic Night
without.


//johnadavid.wordpress.com

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Re: Philosophy of Faith

#3

Post by B. W. » Wed Aug 10, 2011 7:55 am

neo-x wrote:sure, whets on your mind?

interesting topic...
Human Beings are by nature creatures of faith....

It is within human nature to have faith, so for example:

Human Beings can have faith in empirical data

Human Beings can have faith in science

Human Beings can have faith in atheism

Human Beings can have faith in philosophic principles

Human Beings can have faith in what we do

Human Beings can have faith in what others do or not do

Human Beings can have faith in family

Human Beings can have faith in friends

Human Beings can have faith in strangers

Human Beings can have faith in their own faith

Human Beings can have faith in their own belief systems

Human Beings can have faith in themselves

Human Beings can have faith in religions (systems)

Human Beings can have faith mathematics, etc...


These are just a few examples that we human beings are creatures of faith

So, what else do we place are faith in?
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Science is man's invention - creation is God's
(by B. W. Melvin)

Old Polish Proverb:
Not my Circus....not my monkeys

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Re: Philosophy of Faith

#4

Post by RickD » Wed Aug 10, 2011 8:27 am

You forgot the most important one. God.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



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Re: Philosophy of Faith

#5

Post by Reactionary » Wed Aug 10, 2011 8:32 am

B. W. wrote:So, what else do we place are faith in?
I believe that faith is involved more or less anywhere where we can't see all the facts ourselves. This would, however, be impossible to do. You would, for instance, have to visit every single country in the world to be sure that they all exist. You would have to orbit around the Earth to be sure that it's round. Even to discuss this, we need to have faith in our reasoning abilities... which point towards our Creator.
"Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces." Matthew 7:6

"For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse." Romans 1:20

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Re: Philosophy of Faith

#6

Post by kmr » Wed Aug 10, 2011 5:10 pm

I actually think faith is a bit more basic than even that... I think faith is merely a choice of accepting an idea. It doesn't matter where the source of it is, whether observations or reasoning, faith is just a choice that we make to accept something.
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Re: Philosophy of Faith

#7

Post by Danieltwotwenty » Wed Aug 10, 2011 6:46 pm

I beleive faith is having absolute trust, so in my belief you have absolute trust in God no matter what happens.
1Tim1:15-17
Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners of whom I am the worst. But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life. Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever.Amen.

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Re: Philosophy of Faith

#8

Post by kmr » Wed Aug 10, 2011 7:40 pm

Wow, it seems we all have a lot of different interpretations of what faith is... I suppose the word "faith" can mean different things depending on the context, so....
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Re: Philosophy of Faith

#9

Post by B. W. » Wed Aug 10, 2011 9:02 pm

kmr wrote:Wow, it seems we all have a lot of different interpretations of what faith is... I suppose the word "faith" can mean different things depending on the context, so....

Human Beings are by nature creatures of faith....

We all have a philosophy of faith in which we trust...

That is what the purpose of this thread - look into what we as human beings place our faith in and explore why and what effect this 'faith' has on a person...

Hope this helps open up the discussion a bit more.
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Re: Philosophy of Faith

#10

Post by neo-x » Wed Aug 10, 2011 10:12 pm

I think what B.W is saying is, faith - is not just christian faith or even religious. I mean the people who started the tower of babel had faith....in their own selves. Faith actually arises out of logic but only at a point where logic is no more backed up by knowledge. for example,in early times, the sun was worshiped as a God, because we didn't know what it was. Hence faith in sun, as a god arose because of our lack of knowledge. But here is the kicker when there is no knowledge the most logical answer is developed by faith. Therefore the sea storm becomes the wrath of Poseidon, because that is the only factor which could be attributed without having to explain. Faith is quite unique to humans, as in all living things, we are apparently the only ones who live by it, kill for it and die defending it. But the question is why faith? why not will or truth or reality or evidence? because humans discover all the time. And if so then nothing is absolute. If nothing is absolute then faith is incomplete. In that, it does not define our limits. Thus our struggle continues. In some distant way, faith is a direct result of unexplained curiosity and hence the tendency of humans to experiment and evolve(mentally) from cave men to modern men, is just a "leap of faith". Therefore where faith is a direct result of unexplained phenomena, it is also the reason for further discovery (as faith is never complete, thus relying on further access to knowledge). This forms a cycle, a loop. Throughout human history we may have seen a decline in ethics or moral values but never in the advancement of our curiosity, our knowledge.


This is what I think...at least
It would be a blessing if they missed the cairns and got lost on the way back. Or if
the Thing on the ice got them tonight.

I could only turn and stare in horror at the chief surgeon.
Death by starvation is a terrible thing, Goodsir, continued Stanley.
And with that we went below to the flame-flickering Darkness of the lower deck
and to a cold almost the equal of the Dante-esque Ninth Circle Arctic Night
without.


//johnadavid.wordpress.com

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Re: Philosophy of Faith

#11

Post by jestes » Wed Aug 10, 2011 11:09 pm

I agree with KMR in that faith is a choice. Faith is such a complex topic that it's hard to really narrow down to a specific definition. However, here's a few points I have.

1. It is a choice. Faith is greatly influenced by some things, but in the end faith is a choice between two belief systems. I do feel there is enough material to support either a theistic or atheistic worldview, however the amount of material available to support a theistic worldview far outweighs the atheistic viewpoint. Faith that is "proved" ceases to be faith. Faith is choice. Observance of undeniable truth is not. It's programming.

2. Faith is an emotion, or at least the foundation of emotion. The Bible speaks of many things characteristic of a believer, many of which are emotional states of being: joy, hope, love, compassion, kindness, and so on. Without faith in something, many of these emotions could not begin, or at least be sustained for any length of time.

3. Faith begins with a choice, and is rooted in realization. Paul says we were given a spirit of sonship. Stop and think about that for a second. It took me a while to "get it". You are no longer the fileroom clerk hoping you don't make the boss mad and get fired. You're now the boss' kid. You need not be worried about loosing your job now. Having said that, being the boss' kid means that you are now open to an entirely new level of discipline that you weren't before. That discipline is not something meant for vengeance or payment, but rather for instruction. Jesus took care of the payment. Discipline is now intended to keep you from repeating your mistakes and bringing harm to yourself and others. I feel one of the reasons we are told to confess known issues even after salvation is because God is giving us a chance to realize and learn from our own mistakes. Basically it's God's way of saying, "Ya messed up. Talk to me about it, and let's see what we can do to avoid it next time. Just don't make me call you out on it."

4. Faith is not a work in itself. I struggled with this myself, but many people view Christianity as hardly different from any other religion. That is to say, that it offers a way of life that will bring you closer to God provided to modify your behavior accordingly. I still struggle to really describe it, but I had an issue with whether faith was a work or not. I realized that faith is not an effort that must be undertaken, but it stands in contrast to effort that must be stopped. In Eden, Adam and Eve had direct fellowship with God. They didn't need to take it on faith. They were literally looking at him, exactly the way He intended. Faith is not a means to "get to God", but rather the doorway God uses to come to us to bring us back to that fellowship. God is the one coming to us. We just need to quit running.

5. Faith is God-given. It is not unlike the breath in your lungs, the free will you exercise, and the gifts/talents you were born with. Faith is something given from God, not something we make on our own. We all know that faith, hope, and love are all closely related and are present in a believer. We also know that God is love. Saying God loves doesn't cut it. God IS love. The more I've thought about it, the more blurred the distinction between those three words becomes. Given these facts, and the fact that God gives his Spirit to live within us, I wonder something: Are faith, hope, and love three words used to describe the same thing?

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Re: Philosophy of Faith

#12

Post by neo-x » Wed Aug 10, 2011 11:26 pm

@ jestes
It is a choice. Faith is greatly influenced by some thing...

Faith is an emotion...
Don't you think that when you say faith is an emotion as well as a choice, is a contradiction. If faith is an emotion, then it is a reaction to something, not a choice since you can not force yourself to be happy. Most of the times we smile, we realize later that we were smiling. we do not make up a smile genuinely because that would not be true happiness. I would have to say that true emotion is involuntarily, and if so then it can not be a choice at the same time. what do you think???
It would be a blessing if they missed the cairns and got lost on the way back. Or if
the Thing on the ice got them tonight.

I could only turn and stare in horror at the chief surgeon.
Death by starvation is a terrible thing, Goodsir, continued Stanley.
And with that we went below to the flame-flickering Darkness of the lower deck
and to a cold almost the equal of the Dante-esque Ninth Circle Arctic Night
without.


//johnadavid.wordpress.com

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Re: Philosophy of Faith

#13

Post by kmr » Wed Aug 10, 2011 11:37 pm

^ Sounds reasonable ^ ;)
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Re: Philosophy of Faith

#14

Post by B. W. » Thu Aug 11, 2011 10:11 am

I would like to look into jestes comments a bit more one by one…
jestes wrote:1. It is a choice. Faith is greatly influenced by some things, but in the end faith is a choice between two belief systems. I do feel there is enough material to support either a theistic or atheistic worldview, however the amount of material available to support a theistic worldview far outweighs the atheistic viewpoint. Faith that is "proved" ceases to be faith. Faith is choice. Observance of undeniable truth is not. It's programming.


++Adam and Eve made a choice between two systems. Which did they surrender and the one accepted? What are the hallmarks of each?
jestes wrote:2. Faith is an emotion, or at least the foundation of emotion. The Bible speaks of many things characteristic of a believer, many of which are emotional states of being: joy, hope, love, compassion, kindness, and so on. Without faith in something, many of these emotions could not begin, or at least be sustained for any length of time.
++If I understand correctly, faith would be the foundation of an emotion that convinces ones course of life which one becomes loyal to, lives after, and follows. Deep inside an emotional appeal lays the foundation for ones life’s course to follow whatever a person placed faith in. Look at what James wrote to see what I mean.

James 1:14, "But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed."

Human beings are by nature creatures of faith and have an inheritant need to belong to something, a need to feel loyal too something, even a need to be convinced to follow something, all stems from a need to be taken care of by something/someone which is sparked by a feeling. Interesting concept, jestes, if that is what you meant…

This leads to the questions: In the Garden of Eden, the Serpent convinced both Adam and Eve to place their faith in what?

What is it today that people place their trust in more than God?

What is exchanged?

Later I’ll look into parts 3, 4, 5 of jestes comments so we do not bog down…
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Science is man's invention - creation is God's
(by B. W. Melvin)

Old Polish Proverb:
Not my Circus....not my monkeys

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Re: Philosophy of Faith

#15

Post by DannyM » Fri Aug 12, 2011 10:00 am

I liked it when, in a Dawkins-Lennox debate, Dawkins said he did not hold any sort of faith, and Lennox asked Dawkins if he had faith in his wife... Dawkins said No...and Lennox went, Mmmm...

Hilarious
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