The foundation for a meaninglful life or action.

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CeT-To
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The foundation for a meaninglful life or action.

#1

Post by CeT-To » Thu Aug 04, 2011 2:22 am

So i was thinking, if there exists no God and no after-life and we die at the grave then there is no point in doing anything at all.

1. If there is no afterlife and we die at the grave yet there is God, for us to be doing things is meaningless because since we die at the grave we will not remember nor think nor feel - we will be nothing.

2. If there is an afterlife but there is no God likewise life would be similar to the experience on earth ( in the sense of interaction with other persons) full of corruptness but without death thus eternal - a hell itself indeed - imagine hitler, stalin or the tyrants of old out to be the eternal rulers of the afterlife. Furthermore it still would be an existential life and thus have no meaning - we would just exist aimlessly for eternity without an objective purpose and no rest. A horrible state of life indeed.

So it seems therefore that both God and an afterlife must be for one's actions to ultimately be meaninful in life.

What do you guys think?

God bless!
But joy and happiness in you to all who seek you! Let them ceaselessly cry,"Great is Yahweh" who love your saving power. Psalm 40:16

I Praise you Yahweh, my Lord, my God!!!!!

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Re: The foundation for a meaninglful life or action.

#2

Post by Silvertusk » Thu Aug 04, 2011 5:13 am

Totally Agree. William Lane Craig talks alongs those lines as well.

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Re: The foundation for a meaninglful life or action.

#3

Post by Echoside » Thu Aug 04, 2011 3:52 pm

I disagree with (2) as all the things absent in (1) still exist, but I can't imagine an afterlife scenario that doesn't include some sort of God so the point is moot anyways.

I can't really see anyone disagreeing with (1).

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Re: The foundation for a meaninglful life or action.

#4

Post by Murray » Thu Aug 04, 2011 4:31 pm

Echoside wrote: I can't really see anyone disagreeing with (1).

You would be surprised, there are many deist out there that believe just that.
in nomine patri et fili spiritu sancte

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Re: The foundation for a meaninglful life or action.

#5

Post by CeT-To » Thu Aug 04, 2011 7:28 pm

Echoside wrote:I disagree with (2) as all the things absent in (1) still exist, but I can't imagine an afterlife scenario that doesn't include some sort of God so the point is moot anyways.

I can't really see anyone disagreeing with (1).
Yes like Murray said you would be surprised, my agnostic/atheist friends disagree with 1, which is very strange... but i doubt they believe what they are saying i just think they are trying to make themselves believe that. They say its important because you do things in the now and Now you feel think and remember. LOL which is just ridiculous because it doesn't even take away the problem that death carries with it which I state in number (1) but i think i also asked them just to make them think " how long is that "answer"/resolve going to last? even at the face of death when you are old?"

Any reason you disagree with (2), Echo?
Silvertusk wrote:Totally Agree. William Lane Craig talks alongs those lines as well.
Yes, actually i listened to one of his speeches on this exact topic and i was left in shocked that i had never considered it in mind - by that sense i mean actually sat down and thought about it properly.

God bless!
But joy and happiness in you to all who seek you! Let them ceaselessly cry,"Great is Yahweh" who love your saving power. Psalm 40:16

I Praise you Yahweh, my Lord, my God!!!!!

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Re: The foundation for a meaninglful life or action.

#6

Post by kmr » Fri Aug 05, 2011 1:18 am

Point 2 could be a possibility with no God is a supernatural realm exists, I.E. ghosts and such... it could be based on a transcendent dimension or a parallel universe or simply our minds changing states into some kind of invisible EMR. I know a few atheists who believe in ghosts.
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Re: The foundation for a meaninglful life or action.

#7

Post by CeT-To » Fri Aug 05, 2011 8:37 am

kmr wrote:Point 2 could be a possibility with no God is a supernatural realm exists, I.E. ghosts and such... it could be based on a transcendent dimension or a parallel universe or simply our minds changing states into some kind of invisible EMR. I know a few atheists who believe in ghosts.
Why is it a possibility? hmmm if we come into existance then how are we immortal by nature? I would actually think that if there is no God nothing should exist.
But joy and happiness in you to all who seek you! Let them ceaselessly cry,"Great is Yahweh" who love your saving power. Psalm 40:16

I Praise you Yahweh, my Lord, my God!!!!!

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Re: The foundation for a meaninglful life or action.

#8

Post by kmr » Sat Aug 06, 2011 12:02 pm

I was just giving an example to echoside... :ewink:
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Re: The foundation for a meaninglful life or action.

#9

Post by MarcusOfLycia » Sat Aug 06, 2011 12:05 pm

Echoside wrote:I disagree with (2) as all the things absent in (1) still exist, but I can't imagine an afterlife scenario that doesn't include some sort of God so the point is moot anyways.

I can't really see anyone disagreeing with (1).
I'm with you on that... I can't really imagine (2) without God existing in the first place. I know I can be guilty of it as well, but it sounds like speculation, too, and I try to avoid those kinds of arguments (reminds me of the multi-verse a little... talking very specifically about something we can't ever prove or disprove exists as if we'd experienced it).
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Re: The foundation for a meaninglful life or action.

#10

Post by Echoside » Sat Aug 06, 2011 12:17 pm

the second scenario has purpose imo, which is the reason I disagree with the idea that it's a purposeless existence. I don't believe that the concept of purpose requires a God to give us that purpose, rather the only way to have purpose is live in an existence created by God. It's a subtle difference, which is why I said the point is moot; you gave a hypothetical scenario which I think is an impossibility.

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Re: The foundation for a meaninglful life or action.

#11

Post by CeT-To » Sun Aug 07, 2011 1:34 am

Echoside wrote:the second scenario has purpose imo, which is the reason I disagree with the idea that it's a purposeless existence. I don't believe that the concept of purpose requires a God to give us that purpose, rather the only way to have purpose is live in an existence created by God. It's a subtle difference, which is why I said the point is moot; you gave a hypothetical scenario which I think is an impossibility.
Lol i don't think (2) is a possibility either - that reality should be that way but some people do that's why its mentioned. Wait scenario 2 doesn't include God in the picture, he doesn't exist in that scenario. Actually it seems to me that you've said the same thing, if the only way to have purpose is ~ live in an existence created by God then God creates your existence with a purpose.

God bless!
But joy and happiness in you to all who seek you! Let them ceaselessly cry,"Great is Yahweh" who love your saving power. Psalm 40:16

I Praise you Yahweh, my Lord, my God!!!!!

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Re: The foundation for a meaninglful life or action.

#12

Post by StMonicaGuideMe » Wed Nov 16, 2011 9:43 pm

I was told by an atheist that they believe life has value simply because they find their life to be of value, and thus, assume that everyone else would view life as valuable also for the same reason he does; that he just "sees" it as valuable.

My first thought was "tell that to someone who's considering suicide".

The stupidity made my head hurt. life doesn't have "intrinsic" value just because you think it does, and that most certainly doesn't mean it transfers into other people's lives. It IS quite the assumption to say "well because I view my life as valuable, others will view theirs as valuable too and thus I will view their life as valuable because they see it is".

How is this related to the topic? I simply asked if life then has value, it would be just to have an afterlife. They said "no, in fact it's more valuable because we know there is no afterlife". Uh.............................yeah.
To sustain the belief that there is no God, atheism has to demonstrate infinite knowledge, which is tantamount to saying, “I have infinite knowledge that there is no being in existence with infinite knowledge".

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Re: The foundation for a meaninglful life or action.

#13

Post by Reactionary » Thu Nov 17, 2011 4:08 am

StMonicaGuideMe wrote:I simply asked if life then has value, it would be just to have an afterlife. They said "no, in fact it's more valuable because we know there is no afterlife". Uh.............................yeah.
Indeed, total nonsense. However, the absence of afterlife is an appealing possibility to some people, especially those who live irresponsibly and/or have committed major sins in the past and are too proud to repent.
"Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces." Matthew 7:6

"For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse." Romans 1:20

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Re: The foundation for a meaninglful life or action.

#14

Post by CeT-To » Fri Nov 18, 2011 8:40 pm

StMonicaGuideMe wrote:I was told by an atheist that they believe life has value simply because they find their life to be of value, and thus, assume that everyone else would view life as valuable also for the same reason he does; that he just "sees" it as valuable.

My first thought was "tell that to someone who's considering suicide".

The stupidity made my head hurt. life doesn't have "intrinsic" value just because you think it does, and that most certainly doesn't mean it transfers into other people's lives. It IS quite the assumption to say "well because I view my life as valuable, others will view theirs as valuable too and thus I will view their life as valuable because they see it is".

How is this related to the topic? I simply asked if life then has value, it would be just to have an afterlife. They said "no, in fact it's more valuable because we know there is no afterlife". Uh.............................yeah.
Sigh ... subjective subjective... its just as valuable as a rock thinks his life is. Seriously, we all know that they know that what they say is rubbish deep down inside them 8-}2 it's like self deception at its best/ :shakehead:
But joy and happiness in you to all who seek you! Let them ceaselessly cry,"Great is Yahweh" who love your saving power. Psalm 40:16

I Praise you Yahweh, my Lord, my God!!!!!

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Re: The foundation for a meaninglful life or action.

#15

Post by StMonicaGuideMe » Sun Nov 20, 2011 9:41 pm

And how truly sad that is for them, to be in such denial. And that denial may cost them their souls.
To sustain the belief that there is no God, atheism has to demonstrate infinite knowledge, which is tantamount to saying, “I have infinite knowledge that there is no being in existence with infinite knowledge".

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