Having children

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ageofknowledge
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Having children

#1

Post by ageofknowledge » Fri Jul 24, 2009 12:19 pm

I would say the evidence shows that most people have children for the wrong reasons. http://www.ehow.com/about_4611925_unpla ... stics.html - As a general statistic, the Alan Guttmacher Institute in New York estimates that up to 49 percent of the pregnancies in the U.S. are unplanned and at times as been as high as 70 percent.

Only a small minority of the world's population grows up in good circumstances, in a Christian home with proper modeling, proper resources, etc... I've seen those situations and they are awsome. But they are for a very few. Most of the world falls far short of that. I see illegal welfare mothers at the foodbank I volunteer at that have up to 10 and 11 anchor babies all of them on social services most being state raised in the system, dropping out of school, joining gangs, and ending up in prison. Except for rare occassion, those that don't never really do much with their lives. I see a lot of messed up Americans raised by single parent mothers or dysfunctional parents.

It seems to me that most people in the world are begotten as accidents due to sexual irresponsibility that doesn't provide for a good life after they are born. I think it would be a much better planet if only those that could afford to have children and could provide the right environment and modeling for them actually had them. But just the opposite is true for the vast majority who are birthed in sin into undesirable circumstances to suffer and/or cause suffering unnecessarily. It's evil imo.

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Re: Having children

#2

Post by Jac3510 » Fri Jul 24, 2009 1:02 pm

Please tell me you aren't advocating telling people that they can't have children? And further, how would such a policy be enforced? Forbid them from having sex? You obviously can't do that. It's not possible. So what . . . steralize people? That's evil. Abort accidental children? That's just murder. So what? Take children away from their parents if the situation isn't good for the kid? But who decides that? The government? I sure as heck don't want to live in a place where the gov't can tell me I can't keep my own children because somebody else doesn't think I'm a fit parent.

I agree that people should be more responsible when it comes to having children, but more than that, people should be more responsible with their sex lives. That's a moral problem, which then is actually a spiritual problem. Perhaps this is one of the reasons that God actually designed sex to happen within the bounds of marriage. He's not trying to restrict pleasure. He's trying to maximize it.
Proinsias wrote:I don't think you are hearing me. Preference for ice cream is a moral issue
And that, brothers and sisters, is the kind of foolishness you get people who insist on denying biblical theism. A good illustration of any as the length people will go to avoid acknowledging basic truths.

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Re: Having children

#3

Post by zoegirl » Fri Jul 24, 2009 5:54 pm

aGREEDM, Jac,

People have sex withough thought to the consequences.

Basically you have sex, barring tubal ligation, you risk conceiving.

My sister-in-law jokes that, for every method ofbirth control, she can provide an example of someone she knows or someone someone she know knows :esurprised: who has conceived with that metod of birth control.

It's a basic function....you have sex, you could get pregnant.
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Re: Having children

#4

Post by rodyshusband » Fri Jul 24, 2009 8:23 pm

zoegirl wrote:aGREEDM, Jac,

People have sex withough thought to the consequences.

Basically you have sex, barring tubal ligation, you risk conceiving.

My sister-in-law jokes that, for every method ofbirth control, she can provide an example of someone she knows or someone someone she know knows :esurprised: who has conceived with that metod of birth control.

It's a basic function....you have sex, you could get pregnant.
Here's a true story to share with your sister-in-law:
Bob and Debbie were high school sweethearts. She was pregnant, they married. One year later, she was pregnant again. After two children, they decided, at age 22, that two were enough. She had tubal ligation. Sixteen months later, she was pregnant with her third child. Bob decided he would have a vasectomy. Eighteen months later, their fourth daughter was born. All the doctors said it was impossible.

I know this is off subject, but find it fascinating.
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Re: Having children

#5

Post by cslewislover » Fri Jul 24, 2009 8:59 pm

!!!! Wow! Some people are just so fertile, apparently. y:O2 Before I became a Christian, as an adult, I was fairly active *cough, cough* and I never once got pregnant. While trying to have Zak, it took me a while. And then there are people who have a much harder time than I did (including someone here . . . I wonder how they're doing?).
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Re: Having children

#6

Post by ageofknowledge » Sat Jul 25, 2009 12:56 am

No I'm not advocating any legislation that people can't have children. Not sure how you came to that conclusion since I never mentioned any such thing. What I'm doing is talking about what I've observed in this world. It's more of a philosophical discussion if that helps you process it better.

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Re: Having children

#7

Post by Proinsias » Sun Jul 26, 2009 6:21 pm

ageofknowledge wrote:I would say the evidence shows that most people have children for the wrong reasons. http://www.ehow.com/about_4611925_unpla ... stics.html - As a general statistic, the Alan Guttmacher Institute in New York estimates that up to 49 percent of the pregnancies in the U.S. are unplanned and at times as been as high as 70 percent.

Only a small minority of the world's population grows up in good circumstances, in a Christian home with proper modeling, proper resources, etc... I've seen those situations and they are awsome. But they are for a very few. Most of the world falls far short of that. I see illegal welfare mothers at the foodbank I volunteer at that have up to 10 and 11 anchor babies all of them on social services most being state raised in the system, dropping out of school, joining gangs, and ending up in prison. Except for rare occassion, those that don't never really do much with their lives. I see a lot of messed up Americans raised by single parent mothers or dysfunctional parents.

It seems to me that most people in the world are begotten as accidents due to sexual irresponsibility that doesn't provide for a good life after they are born. I think it would be a much better planet if only those that could afford to have children and could provide the right environment and modeling for them actually had them. But just the opposite is true for the vast majority who are birthed in sin into undesirable circumstances to suffer and/or cause suffering unnecessarily. It's evil imo.
In my personal experience most of the extremely sexually irresponsible people I've know have came from very religious backgrounds who taught against things like sex before marriage and had very solid families with generally good Christian upbringing. To stress that is simply my experience and I'm not claiming it is universal.

As for people who can provide for kids and give them a good life being the only ones who can have kids. It's a tough one as holding your child in your arms can really change your outlook on life - if you deprive people of that chance you might be wasting a current life and a future one.

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Re: Having children

#8

Post by ageofknowledge » Mon Jul 27, 2009 1:25 am

Proinsias wrote:
ageofknowledge wrote:I would say the evidence shows that most people have children for the wrong reasons. http://www.ehow.com/about_4611925_unpla ... stics.html - As a general statistic, the Alan Guttmacher Institute in New York estimates that up to 49 percent of the pregnancies in the U.S. are unplanned and at times as been as high as 70 percent.

Only a small minority of the world's population grows up in good circumstances, in a Christian home with proper modeling, proper resources, etc... I've seen those situations and they are awsome. But they are for a very few. Most of the world falls far short of that. I see illegal welfare mothers at the foodbank I volunteer at that have up to 10 and 11 anchor babies all of them on social services most being state raised in the system, dropping out of school, joining gangs, and ending up in prison. Except for rare occassion, those that don't never really do much with their lives. I see a lot of messed up Americans raised by single parent mothers or dysfunctional parents.

It seems to me that most people in the world are begotten as accidents due to sexual irresponsibility that doesn't provide for a good life after they are born. I think it would be a much better planet if only those that could afford to have children and could provide the right environment and modeling for them actually had them. But just the opposite is true for the vast majority who are birthed in sin into undesirable circumstances to suffer and/or cause suffering unnecessarily. It's evil imo.
In my personal experience most of the extremely sexually irresponsible people I've know have came from very religious backgrounds who taught against things like sex before marriage and had very solid families with generally good Christian upbringing. To stress that is simply my experience and I'm not claiming it is universal.

As for people who can provide for kids and give them a good life being the only ones who can have kids. It's a tough one as holding your child in your arms can really change your outlook on life - if you deprive people of that chance you might be wasting a current life and a future one.
Most of the really debauched sex stuff I've seen has been from liberal non-Christian homes, as a rule, but with exceptions. Obviously, people are bringing into the world all the children they want to for whatever reasons they have or no reason at all. That's not going to change. My observations are that life goes poorly for a large number of them and most of those become dysfunctional adults that simply repeat the cycle ad infinitum.

Personally, I would never bring a child into this world. It's just not a good environment to raise kids in unless you happen to be in a fortunate minority and have the resources, family model, Christian belief system sorted out and internalized properly, neighborhood and social environment, etc... to do it in. Most of the world is just too dangerous and evil a place with too much deceipt/false belief systemes, war, pain/suffering, death, addiction, predators, risk, poverty, disappointment, failure, frustration, violence, etc.. etc.. etc... for children in my humble opinion. Each to their own but I don't see why someone would knowingly do this unless they had the resources, family model, etc... and were fully able and committed to see it through properly beforehand. But they do by the billions usually with negative result.

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Re: Having children

#9

Post by Proinsias » Mon Jul 27, 2009 8:00 pm

ageofknowledge wrote:Personally, I would never bring a child into this world. It's just not a good environment to raise kids in unless you happen to be in a fortunate minority and have the resources, family model, Christian belief system sorted out and internalized properly, neighborhood and social environment, etc... to do it in. Most of the world is just too dangerous and evil a place with too much deceipt/false belief systemes, war, pain/suffering, death, addiction, predators, risk, poverty, disappointment, failure, frustration, violence, etc.. etc.. etc... for children in my humble opinion. Each to their own but I don't see why someone would knowingly do this unless they had the resources, family model, etc... and were fully able and committed to see it through properly beforehand. But they do by the billions usually with negative result.
I think the world is rather nice. So does my daughter.

I wasn't in the position to care for a daughter when my, now wife, girlfriend became pregnant. I was living with a few other guys, smoking weed, drinking and partying. Within a few months of the news I had a decent job, bought a house and was on the way to having a decent family structure. By the time she arrived I was working, getting back into education and had the nursery looking great.

Hopefully not opening a can of worms but I'd rather try to avoid bringing my kid up in any belief system, Christian or otherwise - although I realise this is a pretty much impossible task. She is fascinated by god and I'm more interested in teaching her that she is one who has better insight into belief systems than me providing one for her. I would prefer that she pick one than I give her one.

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Re: Having children

#10

Post by ageofknowledge » Mon Jul 27, 2009 9:37 pm

Proinsias wrote:
ageofknowledge wrote:Personally, I would never bring a child into this world. It's just not a good environment to raise kids in unless you happen to be in a fortunate minority and have the resources, family model, Christian belief system sorted out and internalized properly, neighborhood and social environment, etc... to do it in. Most of the world is just too dangerous and evil a place with too much deceipt/false belief systemes, war, pain/suffering, death, addiction, predators, risk, poverty, disappointment, failure, frustration, violence, etc.. etc.. etc... for children in my humble opinion. Each to their own but I don't see why someone would knowingly do this unless they had the resources, family model, etc... and were fully able and committed to see it through properly beforehand. But they do by the billions usually with negative result.
I think the world is rather nice. So does my daughter.

I wasn't in the position to care for a daughter when my, now wife, girlfriend became pregnant. I was living with a few other guys, smoking weed, drinking and partying. Within a few months of the news I had a decent job, bought a house and was on the way to having a decent family structure. By the time she arrived I was working, getting back into education and had the nursery looking great.

Hopefully not opening a can of worms but I'd rather try to avoid bringing my kid up in any belief system, Christian or otherwise - although I realise this is a pretty much impossible task. She is fascinated by god and I'm more interested in teaching her that she is one who has better insight into belief systems than me providing one for her. I would prefer that she pick one than I give her one.
That's great you are fortunate enough to live in a relatively safe neighborhood and have a good job. Many of the places I have lived and traveled too are just the opposite. Life is cheap and cruel there and jobs are sparse. I'm not sure why anyone would leave all that room in their children's life for the devil to operate though. Maybe she'll accept the material atheism she's learning at school. Or perhaps she'll become a witch and engage in the occult... a very popular path for non-Christian young people today. Or who knows? Maybe she'll become a scientologist and spend the rest of her life attempting to become a god. So many choices the devil lays before them. So few parents that get it.

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Re: Having children

#11

Post by Harry12345 » Thu Jul 30, 2009 1:47 am

Jac3510 wrote:And further, how would such a policy be enforced? Forbid them from having sex? You obviously can't do that.
y:O2

From the mouth of a conservative! :shock:
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Re: Having children

#12

Post by Jac3510 » Thu Jul 30, 2009 7:58 am

I don't see anything to be surprised about, Harry?
Proinsias wrote:I don't think you are hearing me. Preference for ice cream is a moral issue
And that, brothers and sisters, is the kind of foolishness you get people who insist on denying biblical theism. A good illustration of any as the length people will go to avoid acknowledging basic truths.

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Re: Having children

#13

Post by Harry12345 » Thu Jul 30, 2009 11:34 am

Jac3510 wrote:I don't see anything to be surprised about, Harry?
I do!!! y:O2
If you're born once, you die twice; but if you're born twice, you die once.

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Re: Having children

#14

Post by rodyshusband » Thu Jul 30, 2009 2:24 pm

Harry12345 wrote:
Jac3510 wrote:I don't see anything to be surprised about, Harry?
I do!!! y:O2
Now Harry...be nice! :)
y>:D<
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Re: Having children

#15

Post by cslewislover » Thu Jul 30, 2009 2:38 pm

rodyshusband wrote:
Harry12345 wrote:
Jac3510 wrote:I don't see anything to be surprised about, Harry?
I do!!! y:O2
Now Harry...be nice! :)
y>:D<
:pound:
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