Dr. Heiser challenges our traditional thinking again: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YeLpUt04Ses
Is the TERM "monotheism" accurate, even though there is but one eternal, Creator God, Yahweh? God vs. gods.
What is Monotheism per the Bible?
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Philip
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What is Monotheism per the Bible?
Dr. Heiser challenges our traditional thinking again: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YeLpUt04Ses
Is the TERM "monotheism" accurate, even though there is but one eternal, Creator God, Yahweh? God vs. gods.
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RickD
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Re: What is Monotheism per the Bible?
Yes, monotheism is accurate, and completely biblical. Remember, Heiser is the guy who has some outlandish(IMO) views about the divine council, and Nephilim.Philip wrote: ↑Tue Feb 09, 2021 8:22 am
Dr. Heiser challenges our traditional thinking again: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YeLpUt04Ses
Is the TERM "monotheism" accurate, even though there is but one eternal, Creator God, Yahweh? God vs. gods.
The trinity is already complicated. He’s trying to make it more difficult to understand. I would say basically explained , but not perfectly explained(we can’t perfectly explain God using words) the God of the Bible is a Monotheistic Triune God.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
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Philip
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Re: What is Monotheism per the Bible?
I'm merely opening this for a discussion, but I do have questions. Clearly, Heiser is not saying there are more than one God or others like Himself / Yahweh - he affirms his belief in the ONE Holy Creator (of ALL things) God and the Trinity.
Notice that these are gods Heiser notes from Scripture are ones with a little "g." But something else must be going on in certain passages that isn't clear. Look at Psalm 82 (below), the first and sixth verses. WHAT are those gods (plural) that God is addressing? It's not the other persons of the Trinity, as he accuses them of favoring the wicked. They are not angels (angels don't die like mortals). Why would Yahweh call them gods? And God tells them that, "like men, you shall die, and fall like any prince." So, these are not men (thus the, "like men"). And men are not part of a "divine" council. They can't be Jewish leaders, because Israel was to be separate from the nations - but God is accusing them of evil actions that are impacting the world under their oversight. So what are these entities and why are they called "gods?" Notice also God ("The Most High") also calls them "sons of the Most High." They are not "Sons," but "sons" (plural!).
Looking at the footnotes in my ESV study Bible, the authors favor these to be men - but their explanation seems rather thin on supportive evidence. And it really doesn't explain any such"divine council" previously noted or described in the Old Testament. So, whether Heiser's contention is correct or not, speculation to the contrary seems thinly rooted. To me, it's just one more mysterious Bible passage that is fascinating.
Heiser is only pointing out what is already in the text and the problems with some of the explanations others have given.
Heiser explains the evolution of his thinking here: https://blog.logos.com/the-elohim-what-or-who-are-they/
A Psalm of Asaph.
82
1 God has taken his place in the divine council;
in the midst of the gods he holds judgment:
2
“How long will you judge unjustly
and show partiality to the wicked? Selah
3
Give justice to the weak and the fatherless;
maintain the right of the afflicted and the destitute.
4
Rescue the weak and the needy;
deliver them from the hand of the wicked.”
5
They have neither knowledge nor understanding,
they walk about in darkness;
all the foundations of the earth are shaken.
6
I said, “You are gods,
sons of the Most High, all of you;
7
nevertheless, like men you shall die,
and fall like any prince.”[a]
8
Arise, O God, judge the earth;
for you shall inherit all the nations!
Notice that these are gods Heiser notes from Scripture are ones with a little "g." But something else must be going on in certain passages that isn't clear. Look at Psalm 82 (below), the first and sixth verses. WHAT are those gods (plural) that God is addressing? It's not the other persons of the Trinity, as he accuses them of favoring the wicked. They are not angels (angels don't die like mortals). Why would Yahweh call them gods? And God tells them that, "like men, you shall die, and fall like any prince." So, these are not men (thus the, "like men"). And men are not part of a "divine" council. They can't be Jewish leaders, because Israel was to be separate from the nations - but God is accusing them of evil actions that are impacting the world under their oversight. So what are these entities and why are they called "gods?" Notice also God ("The Most High") also calls them "sons of the Most High." They are not "Sons," but "sons" (plural!).
Looking at the footnotes in my ESV study Bible, the authors favor these to be men - but their explanation seems rather thin on supportive evidence. And it really doesn't explain any such"divine council" previously noted or described in the Old Testament. So, whether Heiser's contention is correct or not, speculation to the contrary seems thinly rooted. To me, it's just one more mysterious Bible passage that is fascinating.
Heiser is only pointing out what is already in the text and the problems with some of the explanations others have given.
Heiser explains the evolution of his thinking here: https://blog.logos.com/the-elohim-what-or-who-are-they/
A Psalm of Asaph.
82
1 God has taken his place in the divine council;
in the midst of the gods he holds judgment:
2
“How long will you judge unjustly
and show partiality to the wicked? Selah
3
Give justice to the weak and the fatherless;
maintain the right of the afflicted and the destitute.
4
Rescue the weak and the needy;
deliver them from the hand of the wicked.”
5
They have neither knowledge nor understanding,
they walk about in darkness;
all the foundations of the earth are shaken.
6
I said, “You are gods,
sons of the Most High, all of you;
7
nevertheless, like men you shall die,
and fall like any prince.”[a]
8
Arise, O God, judge the earth;
for you shall inherit all the nations!
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RickD
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Re: What is Monotheism per the Bible?
We had a discussion about this a while back, but I just don’t know the specific thread. I think it was in a Nephilim thread. And iirc, DBowling had the best explanation regarding the divine council. Maybe someone will correct me if I’m not remembering correctly. I believe he explained that the divine council was human beings.
Edit: it may be this thread.
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=42034&hilit=Divine+council
I haven’t had time to read through it all yet.
Edit: it may be this thread.
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=42034&hilit=Divine+council
I haven’t had time to read through it all yet.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
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DBowling
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Re: What is Monotheism per the Bible?
My thoughts on Psalm 82 can be found in the following two posts in the thread Rick mentions...RickD wrote: ↑Wed Feb 10, 2021 5:52 am We had a discussion about this a while back, but I just don’t know the specific thread. I think it was in a Nephilim thread. And iirc, DBowling had the best explanation regarding the divine council. Maybe someone will correct me if I’m not remembering correctly. I believe he explained that the divine council was human beings.
Edit: it may be this thread.
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=42034&hilit=Divine+council
I haven’t had time to read through it all yet.
#252
http://discussions.godandscience.org/vi ... 7a#p227114
#264
http://discussions.godandscience.org/vi ... 7a#p227131
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Philip
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Re: What is Monotheism per the Bible?
DB: MAN, are those some long threads - but full of really good discussions - really, the kind of serious and more important discussions I hope to see the forum return to. Paul had some great input as well - I really miss him around here! Does anyone know why he suddenly left? May have been all those redundant, highly irritating U.S. related (he's Canadian) political arguments (we finally/thankfully put an end to!) that he just got fed up with.