Women in church

Discussions amongst Christians about life issues, walking with Christ, and general Christian topics that don't fit under any other area.
User avatar
1over137
Technical Admin
Posts: 5197
Joined: Tue May 10, 2011 6:05 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Female
Creation Position: Undecided
Location: Slovakia
Has liked: 129 times
Been liked: 284 times

Women in church

#1

Post by 1over137 » Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:09 pm

Dear guys,

we have this topic in my church. soon there will be conference held about it.

What according to the Bible, women can and cannot do?
So, what do you think about:
- woman preaching
- woman leading prayers
- woman reading from the bible
at Sunday's sermon.

This topic is very important to me a so will appreciate your inputs.

Hana
But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
-- 1 Thessalonians 5:21

For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.
-- Philippians 1:6

#foreverinmyheart

User avatar
Philip
Board Moderator
Posts: 8265
Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2009 7:45 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Day-Age
Location: Betwixt the Sea and the Mountains
Has liked: 391 times
Been liked: 619 times

Re: Women in church

#2

Post by Philip » Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:56 pm

Hana, this topic involves Egalitarianism and/or Complimentarianism.

Start your study from the links on this page: https://carm.org/questions-complementarianism

Especially here: https://carm.org/women-in-ministry

And whatever you do, don't ask Rick about it! :mrgreen:

User avatar
RickD
Board Moderator
Posts: 21169
Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:59 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Day-Age
Location: Kitchen
Has liked: 195 times
Been liked: 1060 times

Re: Women in church

#3

Post by RickD » Thu Feb 21, 2019 1:18 pm

Hana,

Different denominations have different views on this subject. Which denomination is your church?
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

User avatar
LittleHamster
Valued Member
Posts: 481
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2014 4:00 am
Christian: Yes
Has liked: 83 times
Been liked: 34 times

Re: Women in church

#4

Post by LittleHamster » Thu Feb 21, 2019 4:21 pm

Here is another good write up. It contains a good (complete?) list of verses that mention women, woman, female, females.

The Role of Women in the Church
http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/womensrole.html



Summary:

MEN & WOMEN ARE MADE IN THE IMAGE OF GOD
GOD BLESSED BOTH MEN AND WOMEN, CALLING THEM "MAN"
THE WOMAN WAS TAKEN OUT OF THE MAN
THE HEAD OF EVERY WOMAN IS THE MAN, THE HEAD OF EVERY WIFE IS THE HUSBAND
EVE SINNED BEFORE ADAM AND ENTICED ADAM TO SIN
WOMEN ARE SERVANTS OF MEN AND GOD
MEN AND WOMEN PLUNDERED THE EGYPTIANS TOGETHER
WOMEN WERE PROPHETESSES, BOTH GODLY AND UNGODLY
WOMEN PROPHESY (PREACH, TEACH, SPEAK GODS WORD) AND ARE FILLED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT
WOMEN WHO PROPHESY MUST HAVE THEIR HEAD "COVERED"
MEN WHO PROPHESY SHOULD NOT "COVER" THEIR HEADS
MEN AND WOMEN FALSE PROPHETS WERE TO BE PUT TO DEATH
BOTH MEN AND WOMEN COULD BE NAZARITES
NEITHER MEN NOR WOMEN WERE TO BECOME PROSTITUTES
BOTH MEN AND WOMEN BRING GIFTS TO THE LORD
LEVITE MEN WERE TO MARRY GOOD WOMEN
IN THE LAW, MEN AND WOMEN WERE NOT TO WEAR EACH OTHER'S CLOTHING.
FAITHFUL WOMEN WERE CALLED “BLESSED” IN THE BIBLE
WOMEN WERE MENTIONED IN THE GENEALOGY OF DAVID & JESUS
WOMEN SANG AND DANCED BEFORE THE LORD
WOMEN WERE ABLE TO UNDERSTAND THE LAW
WOMEN CAN CAUSE MEN TO SIN – AND VICE VERSA
MEN AND WOMEN WHO SIN ARE GUILTY BY THE SAME MEASURE
FEMALES IN GOVERNMENTAL POSITIONS OF AUTHORITY SAVED MANY JEWS BY THEIR WISDOM AND FAITHFULNESS TO GOD
WOMEN DO NOBLE THINGS
SOME WOMEN HAVE GREAT FAITH
SOME WOMEN ARE GREAT WORSHIPPERS
BUT WHEN WOMEN RULE OVER MEN IT ALMOST ALWAYS HAS DISASTROUS CONSEQUENCES :shock:
WOMEN CAN ALSO BE ENTICERS OR ENTICED TO EVIL
WOMEN AS TEACHERS OF OTHER WOMEN
WOMEN DO SOMETIMES HAVE A TENDENCY TO TURN TO FEMALE FALSE GODS
FOR TRUE BELIEVERS, THE HOLY SPIRIT IS POURED OUT ON MEN AND WOMEN ALIKE
MEN AND WOMEN ARE ONE IN CHRIST
OLD MEN AND WOMEN WILL SOMEDAY SIT IN THE STREETS OF THE CITY
WOMEN WERE THE MAIN SUPPORT OF JESUS’ MINISTRY
WOMEN WERE THE FIRST TO SEE THE RISEN LORD AND TALK TO HIM
MARY WAS THE MOST BLESSED AMONG WOMEN
WOMEN JOIN IN PRAYER WITH MEN
MEN AND WOMEN WERE WATER BAPTIZED
BOTH MEN AND WOMEN WERE CALLED FOLLOWERS OF PAUL
BELIEVING WOMEN WERE PROMINENT IN THE CHURCH AND COMMUNITY
WOMEN WORKED HARD FOR THE LORD
WIVES (NOT ALL WOMEN) ARE TO KEEP SILENT IN CHURCH
WOMEN SHOULD DRESS MODESTLY
WOMEN WILL BE SANCTIFIED THROUGH CHILDBEARING
RIGHTEOUS WOMEN MARRIED TO GODLY MEN ARE TO BE RESPECTABLE, AND IF SO, RESPECTED
HOLY WOMEN ARE SUBMISSIVE TO THEIR HUSBANDS
Has Liked: 1111 times
Been Liked: 1111 times

User avatar
Philip
Board Moderator
Posts: 8265
Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2009 7:45 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Day-Age
Location: Betwixt the Sea and the Mountains
Has liked: 391 times
Been liked: 619 times

Re: Women in church

#5

Post by Philip » Thu Feb 21, 2019 7:56 pm

"Different denominations have different views on this subject."
Ultimately, it's irrelevant what a particular denomination teaches on ANY subject - if it doesn't have comprehensive Scriptural backing.

User avatar
Philip
Board Moderator
Posts: 8265
Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2009 7:45 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Day-Age
Location: Betwixt the Sea and the Mountains
Has liked: 391 times
Been liked: 619 times

Re: Women in church

#6

Post by Philip » Thu Feb 21, 2019 7:58 pm


User avatar
RickD
Board Moderator
Posts: 21169
Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:59 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Day-Age
Location: Kitchen
Has liked: 195 times
Been liked: 1060 times

Re: Women in church

#7

Post by RickD » Fri Feb 22, 2019 4:52 am

Philip wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 7:56 pm
"Different denominations have different views on this subject."
Ultimately, it's irrelevant what a particular denomination teaches on ANY subject - if it doesn't have comprehensive Scriptural backing.
Of course. I was just trying to help Hana, by knowing which denomination her church is. That way, we can begin to see how their argument for whichever side they're on, is going to go.

Hana,

I'd suggest, as Philip has suggested, to do a little research on Egalitarianism and Complementarianism. Not that one must take a strict approach of one or the other, but to see the arguments from those two perspectives.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

User avatar
Philip
Board Moderator
Posts: 8265
Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2009 7:45 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Day-Age
Location: Betwixt the Sea and the Mountains
Has liked: 391 times
Been liked: 619 times

Re: Women in church

#8

Post by Philip » Fri Feb 22, 2019 8:21 am

Rick: Of course. I was just trying to help Hana, by knowing which denomination her church is. That way, we can begin to see how their argument for whichever side they're on, is going to go.
Rick, I know you know that very well. I just wanted to make sure Hana realizes there are many churches that think they have to interpret theology in light of whatever the current culture or social norms might be. God put certain attributes into men and women that are different. And He thus equipped and put them into differing roles and functions He wanted them to carry out. There is a reason why the church leadership hierarchy and functions as laid out in Scripture reveal differing roles. And it is inconceivable that if He viewed gender leadership roles as being identical, especially in the New Testament era, that He wouldn't have chosen at least some female disciples / apostles. This has nothing whatsoever to do with women not being men's equals in intelligence or other capabilities.

Even a cursory reading of the pertinent New Testament texts reveals three important observations: 1) Although there WERE women who played key roles in the Church, there were no known women pastors in New Testament times; 2) None of the instructions regarding church order include instructions for women pastors (actually, the opposite); and 3) Some texts on church order explicitly forbid women to occupy that role. Paul, in 1 Tim. 2:12, states, "I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man."

I would say, somewhat of a comparison would be the roles within the Trinity - as Father, Son and Spirit are One in Unity, all equally God, all in agreement, but their roles, however, are different, yet complementary (thus the term). People desiring to read cultural and social norms back into Scripture need to realize God doesn't think or work like this. He doesn't view men and women as unequals, but views their intended roles differently - which doesn't mean some roles are superior and others inferior. And that view is clear in 1,500 years of how God instructed Israel and in the family structure and function.

User avatar
Philip
Board Moderator
Posts: 8265
Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2009 7:45 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Day-Age
Location: Betwixt the Sea and the Mountains
Has liked: 391 times
Been liked: 619 times

Re: Women in church

#9

Post by Philip » Fri Feb 22, 2019 3:05 pm

BTW, this issue has come up before: viewtopic.php?p=216281#p216281

User avatar
RickD
Board Moderator
Posts: 21169
Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:59 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Day-Age
Location: Kitchen
Has liked: 195 times
Been liked: 1060 times

Re: Women in church

#10

Post by RickD » Fri Feb 22, 2019 4:18 pm

Philip wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 3:05 pm
BTW, this issue has come up before: viewtopic.php?p=216281#p216281
Yikes!

I promise to stay on topic this time. Looking back at some of the responses by certain persons, makes a lot more sense, with hindsight being 20/20.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

User avatar
1over137
Technical Admin
Posts: 5197
Joined: Tue May 10, 2011 6:05 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Female
Creation Position: Undecided
Location: Slovakia
Has liked: 129 times
Been liked: 284 times

Re: Women in church

#11

Post by 1over137 » Sat Mar 02, 2019 2:40 am

There are two camps now in my denomination. And they discuss this topic.
What I believe is: woman cannot be pastor and elder.
But what about me leading a prayer? I suppose it falls into category, having authority over man, so I should stop leaging prayer, right?
But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
-- 1 Thessalonians 5:21

For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.
-- Philippians 1:6

#foreverinmyheart

User avatar
RickD
Board Moderator
Posts: 21169
Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:59 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Day-Age
Location: Kitchen
Has liked: 195 times
Been liked: 1060 times

Re: Women in church

#12

Post by RickD » Sat Mar 02, 2019 5:46 am

1over137 wrote:
Sat Mar 02, 2019 2:40 am
There are two camps now in my denomination. And they discuss this topic.
What I believe is: woman cannot be pastor and elder.
But what about me leading a prayer? I suppose it falls into category, having authority over man, so I should stop leaging prayer, right?
I think the key word is, "leading".
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

User avatar
1over137
Technical Admin
Posts: 5197
Joined: Tue May 10, 2011 6:05 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Female
Creation Position: Undecided
Location: Slovakia
Has liked: 129 times
Been liked: 284 times

Re: Women in church

#13

Post by 1over137 » Sat Mar 02, 2019 8:42 am

and that is what my thinking exactly is
i cannot lead
But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
-- 1 Thessalonians 5:21

For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.
-- Philippians 1:6

#foreverinmyheart

User avatar
Philip
Board Moderator
Posts: 8265
Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2009 7:45 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Day-Age
Location: Betwixt the Sea and the Mountains
Has liked: 391 times
Been liked: 619 times

Re: Women in church

#14

Post by Philip » Sat Mar 02, 2019 9:01 am

Hana: and that is what my thinking exactly is i cannot lead
Children, youth, all women you can certainly lead. Outside the Church, God imposes no restrictions upon women leading in whatever leadership capacity, business, etc. they desire to.

User avatar
RickD
Board Moderator
Posts: 21169
Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:59 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Day-Age
Location: Kitchen
Has liked: 195 times
Been liked: 1060 times

Re: Women in church

#15

Post by RickD » Sat Mar 02, 2019 9:36 am

1over137 wrote:
Sat Mar 02, 2019 8:42 am
and that is what my thinking exactly is
i cannot lead
I think in the church, women shouldn't lead men. Leading a women's group. Yes. Teaching classes to children. Yes.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

Post Reply