What Do You Do When You Start To Lose Faith?

Discussions amongst Christians about life issues, walking with Christ, and general Christian topics that don't fit under any other area.
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Kurieuo
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#151

Post by Kurieuo » Tue May 03, 2005 8:01 am

Questions a healthy examiner should look into:

Is the same word for "test" used in Matthew 4:7 as in 1 Thessalonians 5:21?

What is meant by "test" in the translation of Deut. 6:16 (which Jesus refers to in the Gospels)? What is meant by "test" in the translation of 1 Thessalonians 5:21? Is there a distinction in meaning to be made between the two?

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#152

Post by Felgar » Tue May 03, 2005 8:02 am

The ark arguments in particular are so ridiculous . Fitting a bunch of animals into a boat doesn't seem nearly as difficult as breathing life into mud or as creating the entire universe through a single command. Why should the ark cast doubt on your beliefs?

My advice to you is to stop reading atheist propaganda and start reading some truth. Read the Bible and if you don't understand it, then read it in conjunction with some good book (like purpose driven life).

Science is good but you also have to understand how little we know. We have barely known the concepts of flight and electricity for 100 years now - that's hardly more than a lifetime. And in another 100 years most of what we now know will be replaced with new knowledge and people will think "were they ever primitive in the year 2000, I can't believe they didn't even understand the simple concept of ****" Do you really want to put your eggs in that basket?

Let it go for a while, and focus on the Word of God that's persisted unchanged and infallible for 2000 years.

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#153

Post by Believer » Tue May 03, 2005 8:10 am

Felgar wrote:The ark arguments in particular are so ridiculous . Fitting a bunch of animals into a boat doesn't seem nearly as difficult as breathing life into mud or as creating the entire universe through a single command. Why should the ark cast doubt on your beliefs?

My advice to you is to stop reading atheist propaganda and start reading some truth. Read the Bible and if you don't understand it, then read it in conjunction with some good book (like purpose driven life).

Science is good but you also have to understand how little we know. We have barely known the concepts of flight and electricity for 100 years now - that's hardly more than a lifetime. And in another 100 years most of what we now know will be replaced with new knowledge and people will think "were they ever primitive in the year 2000, I can't believe they didn't even understand the simple concept of ****" Do you really want to put your eggs in that basket?

Let it go for a while, and focus on the Word of God that's persisted unchanged and infallible for 2000 years.
I don't want to be an atheist/agnostic, but in 100 years, weather the second coming comes or not, don't you think science will have pretty much explained the true origions of life through evolution since that is the real main theory out there these days? I mean the theory could hold as a fact in a number of years if it leads up to that.

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#154

Post by Felgar » Tue May 03, 2005 8:44 am

HelpMeGod wrote:I don't want to be an atheist/agnostic, but in 100 years, weather the second coming comes or not, don't you think science will have pretty much explained the true origions of life through evolution since that is the real main theory out there these days? I mean the theory could hold as a fact in a number of years if it leads up to that.
Nope, I don't think that science will explain the origin of life through evolution at all. In fact I think science will disprove evolution as the origin of species in time.

Besides, even if evolution is proven it still doesn't speak to the start of the universe OR to the start of life itself. Evolution only explains the development of life, not how it began.

Lately I've been thinking along the lines of how rapidly evolution appears to have occured. With the explosions we are really left with very few generations for evolution to be working - perhaps the rate of mutation, the chances of successful adaption, and the number of requisite adaptions will all work together to show that evolution can NOT explain the development of life.

PS: You should really do some reseaech on the various theories of gravity and models of the solar system that persisted for centuries prior to Copernicus and then Newton.

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#155

Post by seedling » Tue May 03, 2005 5:13 pm

I was watching a show today and the women who wrote Chicken Soup for the Soul mentioned that she had people healed of incurrable diseases from the power within ones self and it wasn't prayer or God that did it.


Brian, who do you think made us? Why wouldn't human beings have power within ourselves. Jesus said the kingdom of God is within you. So this is not such a way out idea, to have a human being cure themselves of an illness. Sometimes just realizing that you truly want to live and fight to live is power enough.

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#156

Post by Believer » Tue May 03, 2005 5:41 pm

seedling wrote:
I was watching a show today and the women who wrote Chicken Soup for the Soul mentioned that she had people healed of incurrable diseases from the power within ones self and it wasn't prayer or God that did it.


Brian, who do you think made us? Why wouldn't human beings have power within ourselves. Jesus said the kingdom of God is within you. So this is not such a way out idea, to have a human being cure themselves of an illness. Sometimes just realizing that you truly want to live and fight to live is power enough.
Okay, so with my VERY LIMITED understanding, does that mean the we are currently living in heaven and when we die, we are done? No afterlife?

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#157

Post by bizzt » Wed May 04, 2005 8:41 am

HelpMeGod wrote:
seedling wrote:
I was watching a show today and the women who wrote Chicken Soup for the Soul mentioned that she had people healed of incurrable diseases from the power within ones self and it wasn't prayer or God that did it.


Brian, who do you think made us? Why wouldn't human beings have power within ourselves. Jesus said the kingdom of God is within you. So this is not such a way out idea, to have a human being cure themselves of an illness. Sometimes just realizing that you truly want to live and fight to live is power enough.
Okay, so with my VERY LIMITED understanding, does that mean the we are currently living in heaven and when we die, we are done? No afterlife?
Is that what the Bible Says?? NO... All seedling is saying is that we have the power within us to do great things through JESUS CHRIST! That is where our power comes from not from ourselves but from CHRIST! Heaven is described to have no more pain, no more sorrow, but everlasting Joy. Do you have that right now? Probably not and I don't think anybody has that!

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#158

Post by voicingmaster » Fri May 13, 2005 8:04 pm

I saw on the first pages that some of you praise God in your prayers. How do you word praising God? Can someone give me an example of a prayer they told in which they praised God? I would like to know b/c I would like to do this, but I really have no idea how to do actually do it.

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#159

Post by Dan » Sat May 14, 2005 7:45 am

voicingmaster wrote:I saw on the first pages that some of you praise God in your prayers. How do you word praising God? Can someone give me an example of a prayer they told in which they praised God? I would like to know b/c I would like to do this, but I really have no idea how to do actually do it.
Here is a prayer from the book of Daniel that I like to say :

Praise be to the name of God for ever and ever; wisdom and power are his. He changes times and seasons; he sets up kings and deposes them. He gives wisdom to the wise and knowledge to the discerning.

He reveals deep and hidden things; he knows what lies in darkness and light dwells with him.

I thank you and praise you, O God of my fathers! You have given me wisdom and power, you have made known to me what we asked of you [you have made known to us the dream of the king].

That last part is in the context of Daniel's predicament, but you can take it as symbolic like I do if you want.

I also write my own prayers, I've written two so far. Just grab a pencil and leave a notebook for purely Godly things. Just write what you feel about God, write down how you want to praise Him. Words are kind of clumsy for praising such a magnificent being, but you can do it. Just let the Holy Spirit guide your pen.

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#160

Post by Kendrick » Wed May 25, 2005 12:36 pm

Hi Brian,

Sit still, my man. You were once a seed, and now walk as a man. Your woman needs respect. You home needs a heart. Do not worry. God is is his Heaven and you are his Amabassador on Earth. Rejoyce for what you have been given, and share what is within you for all to see.

Be cool. Chill. Give thanks. And achieve.

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#161

Post by Believer » Thu Jun 30, 2005 5:01 pm

My goodness, I think I can officially label myself as crazy! It's interesting, I have really bad Obsessive Compulsive Disorder and Gullibility which equal chaos. That being said, what I read whether it being true or not in religion, I believe it, if an atheist writes an article I believe it with no questions asked, if a Christian writes an article I believe it no questions asked. This is my conflicting faith. I was reading a book today about various topics and one of them was about religion. At first I thought this was good stuff to read but then turned out to be more atheistic stuff in disguise. Like making fun of religion on how to make one, all the pagan Gods/sons, etc... The thing is I want faith so bad, I want a strong faith, but with SOOO much crap in history, I don't know what to believe. I am going through a fellowship program around my area and I don't know why I am even doing it when I have HORRIBLE doubt. I want there to be a God, a Jesus, a Holy Spirit, an afterlife, but with history being tainted with so many false religions, what can I do? Mithraism was around centuries before Christianity started. I mean, if there is a God, why all these pagan religions? From what I read out of this book, it shows a timeline of when religions started, the first and I quote "125,000-30,000 BCE The Neanderthals kick things off with possible burial rituals" and then it goes down the list to "500 BCE-1 CE Christianity's Jesus Christ (ca. 4 BCE-30 CE) makes a memorable entrance" and then continues up the list. So between 125,000-30,000 BCE to 500 BCE, all these religions were being made up and then Christianity started. Why didn't Christianity start off as the beginning at 125,000 BCE? I mean, from 1 CE to now, there were still religions being made up like Buddaism. Behind all these religions there was a figure that made a huge impact on the world. Who is real and who isn't? The book I read also states different religions versions of heaven and hell, and it says hell was created so that there would be a motivation to be good and moral, so basically creating fiction to drive up a religions success to be the best when it isn't even true. The Bible has good stuff it talks about, the Koran does, and all the other religions. I am SOOO fricken' confused and don't know were to put my faith. People have told me I should just abandon religion so I will stop obsessing over it and move on with my life instead of researching religion way to much than I should be during any given day (every day). The only reason I am TRYING to stick to Christianity is because WHAT IF there really is a heaven and hell, I don't want to abandon religion and then be told when I die that "you have not followed me, you are going to hell". I want a God/Jesus/Holy Spirit, I want to simply just believe, but it feels to me like something is taking that belief from me so I can become an atheist. I mean I think I have just put myself up to being an agnostic now. WHY WASNT CHRISTIANITY FIRST??? I am confused, lost, unsure, uncertain, doubtfull, etc... What do I do when I just don't have that sense in me to believe when I so badly do want to believe? I litterally get headaches over it because I think too hard about it and I am so uncertain. With so many pagan creation stories and other current religion creation stories, which is the right one, what is the real resurrection story, which is the right God, was Jesus really real, was he really resurrected, what is the real TRUTH we should follow, etc...? I just wan't pure hardcore truth, and I feel like I don't have enough. I have had at least 3 things happen to me that could be explained as being supernatural but I doubt them so much that I just say it was pure chance. I have gone to MANY theology and apologetic websites, I have listend to sermons, evidence for a creator and Jesus and angels, general talks online from apologetic people to give the listener (me) a sense of what truth really is, the resurrection, anything you can think of, I have probably listened to it, and it isn't good enough, my doubt just gets stronger listening to this stuff as well as atheistic stuff. I have a Christian counselor, that doesn't work, I have a psychiatrist that I talk to him about religion, that doesn't work, my fellowship program doesn't work. NOTHING WORKS!!!!

PLEASE HELP ME!!!!!!

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#162

Post by Deborah » Thu Jun 30, 2005 5:29 pm

Brain what do you mean why wasn't christianity first?
You know as well as anyone.
God sent Jesus to provide the way to bring the children of god once again under the same one umbrella.

The Jews say they are the chosen people, when infact we are all his chosen people. But some of us do not do Our creator justice.
We were known as disciples before we were known as christians, and before we were disciples we were jewish, (or whatever they were called then) but somewhere we fell off the path, and christianity is simply finding the way back to the path and back into the grace of god.

gees home that says what I intended it to say. :?
Church tradition tells us that when John, son of Zebadee and brother of James was an old man, his disciples would carry him to church in their arms.
He would simply say, “Little children, love one another”
After a time his disciples wearied at always hearing these same words and asked “Master why do you always say this?
He replied, “it is the Lords command, and if done, it is enough”

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#163

Post by Judah » Thu Jun 30, 2005 5:56 pm

HMG, you have a real difficulty due to your OCD and I can certainly feel for you. That must make it quite agonizing for you, and very hard to settle to something and remain firmly convinced about it.

I do hear in what you have written that you have a fundamental desire to be a Christian (in order to go to heaven should Christianity turn out to be the true religion and all others false). I suggest you keep reminding yourself that, despite all your doubts and waverings, this is your fundamental "bottom line" decision.

I believe you are getting yourself overwhelmed with information while your ability to process it adequately is impaired by OCD. You keep flitting from one thing to another, seeing one viewpoint but losing the previous one, going back to the previous one then losing the other viewpoint. This causes considerable heartache for you as you become flakey and inconsistent in your thinking and beliefs.

Since you state that you wish to be a Christian, can you accept that as your fundamental position despite all your doubts this way and that? Consider it to be like the sea bed where the tide above keeps changing and the waves go this way and that above it, but the sea bed remains there at the bottom regardless.

Since you are having such a problem with the constancy of your thinking, I would recommend that you stop researching all other literature/websites (which must only worsen the problem for you) and stick with reading only Christian literature instead. Or even more definitively, read only the Bible, or even only the New Testament, or only John's Gospel, until the symptoms of your OCD have abated a little. And please continue to see your Christian counselor and psychiatrist for their ongoing help in lessening the impact of your OCD. I do you wish you the best.

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#164

Post by Deborah » Thu Jun 30, 2005 6:02 pm

Since you are having such a problem with the constancy of your thinking, I would recommend that you stop researching all other literature/websites (which must only worsen the problem for you) and stick with reading only Christian literature instead. Or even more definitively, read only the Bible, or even only the New Testament, or only John's Gospel, until the symptoms of your OCD have abated a little. And please continue to see your Christian counselor and psychiatrist for their ongoing help in lessening the impact of your OCD. I do you wish you the best.
I totally agree Brain.
and actually to read only the book of John is valid idea, the information in this book is more detailed than other books, suggesting that this disiple knew Jesus best.
this is a very sound suggestion hun.
and ty Judah for suggesting it.
Church tradition tells us that when John, son of Zebadee and brother of James was an old man, his disciples would carry him to church in their arms.
He would simply say, “Little children, love one another”
After a time his disciples wearied at always hearing these same words and asked “Master why do you always say this?
He replied, “it is the Lords command, and if done, it is enough”

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#165

Post by Believer » Thu Jun 30, 2005 6:04 pm

Judah wrote:HMG, you have a real difficulty due to your OCD and I can certainly feel for you. That must make it quite agonizing for you, and very hard to settle to something and remain firmly convinced about it.

I do hear in what you have written that you have a fundamental desire to be a Christian (in order to go to heaven should Christianity turn out to be the true religion and all others false). I suggest you keep reminding yourself that, despite all your doubts and waverings, this is your fundamental "bottom line" decision.

I believe you are getting yourself overwhelmed with information while your ability to process it adequately is impaired by OCD. You keep flitting from one thing to another, seeing one viewpoint but losing the previous one, going back to the previous one then losing the other viewpoint. This causes considerable heartache for you as you become flakey and inconsistent in your thinking and beliefs.

Since you state that you wish to be a Christian, can you accept that as your fundamental position despite all your doubts this way and that? Consider it to be like the sea bed where the tide above keeps changing and the waves go this way and that above it, but the sea bed remains there at the bottom regardless.

Since you are having such a problem with the constancy of your thinking, I would recommend that you stop researching all other literature/websites (which must only worsen the problem for you) and stick with reading only Christian literature instead. Or even more definitively, read only the Bible, or even only the New Testament, or only John's Gospel, until the symptoms of your OCD have abated a little. And please continue to see your Christian counselor and psychiatrist for their ongoing help in lessening the impact of your OCD. I do you wish you the best.
But the question is begged from me, HOW do I know the Bible is THE truth over everything else? How do I know? Because all I see is copycat here and there from pagan religions which existed WAY before Christianity. My Christianity is turning into insanity.

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