Atheist/Evolutionist

Discussions amongst Christians about life issues, walking with Christ, and general Christian topics that don't fit under any other area.
Bovey
Familiar Member
Posts: 27
Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:11 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Young-Earth Creationist
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0

Atheist/Evolutionist

#1

Post by Bovey » Wed Feb 15, 2012 11:06 am

I had a question that was similar to the one of spartans about atheist. I had a teacher that is a staunch atheist and evolutionist. I've tried many times in the past to bring up the Bible and much evidence against the theory of evolution but he silenced me and either made me sit in the hall or go to the principals office. How do I approach a person like this? I want to share all of my information with him but he won't listen. Just asking for a few suggestions. Thanks in advanced. :D

User avatar
Stu
Esteemed Senior Member
Posts: 1064
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2011 7:32 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Undecided
Has liked: 12 times
Been liked: 30 times

Re: Atheist/Evolutionist

#2

Post by Stu » Thu Feb 16, 2012 9:11 am

Tough one. It can be hard to strike up a conversation with a closed mind such as that.

If it's the weaknesses of evolution you're aiming at, make sure you keep it scientific, no biblical quotes.
While you have to ease into the conversation, the points you make must be direct, hard-hitting and brief enough so that any points made aren't diluted.
Something that can be brushed off as opinion or bias get's you no where, and the tone conversation has been set. Hit em with the human studies of HIV, malaria and E. coli and their clear indication of the limitations of the mutation/selection mechanism; or the role of epigenetics within a living organism -- and it's not something you can simply brush off.
Only when the blood runs and the shackles restrain, will the sheep then awake. When all is lost.

User avatar
jlay
Ultimate Member
Posts: 3616
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2009 2:47 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Young-Earth Creationist
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 9 times

Re: Atheist/Evolutionist

#3

Post by jlay » Thu Feb 16, 2012 10:26 am

Well, first you are making a mistake.

The teacher, whether your enemy or advesary deserves your respect. The Christian is called to submit to authority.
2nd, why would you bring the Bible up? Has your teacher made any claims agianst the Bible? If so, what are they?

The best way to approach this person is to not be rebellious, and in fact study your butt off, and be the best student in the class.
-“The Bible treated allegorically becomes putty in the hands of the exegete.” John Walvoord

"I'm not saying scientists don't overstate their results. They do. And it's understandable, too...If you spend years working toward a certain goal and make no progress, of course you are going to spin your results in a positive light." Ivellious

Ivellious
Esteemed Senior Member
Posts: 1046
Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2011 8:48 pm
Christian: No
Sex: Male
Creation Position: I don't believe in creation
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0

Re: Atheist/Evolutionist

#4

Post by Ivellious » Thu Feb 16, 2012 11:31 am

Yeah, it's ok to challenge evolution, but when you start bringing up the Bible in what I'm presuming is a public school is a problem. It's understandable that a teacher would be frustrated by a student bringing religious beliefs into what is supposed to be a secular course. Also, you should understand that the teacher does have to follow a particular curriculum. When you stray too far from that, or as a student you waste the teacher's time arguing the points he/she has to teach, you run the risk of hurting other students' right to learn. It might be better to discuss academic things like that after school, one on one with the teacher, as opposed to making a scene and doing something that might be taken as insubordination.

Also, how did you know this teacher is an atheist? Typically it is looked down upon in public schools for teachers to overtly express their religious beliefs. Are you presuming atheism?

User avatar
Stu
Esteemed Senior Member
Posts: 1064
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2011 7:32 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Undecided
Has liked: 12 times
Been liked: 30 times

Re: Atheist/Evolutionist

#5

Post by Stu » Thu Feb 16, 2012 1:38 pm

Ah, seems I misread the situation. I thought he meant within their personal capacity; just the two of them in conversation.

Raising these issues during an actual class is another matter.

Having said that, I see no reason why you can't question the subject matter, but not for arguments sake.
If you really have an issue with what has been presented to you then you can question. But make sure you have done your homework before hand, and ensure you have a good grasp on the subject rather than throwing out a series of contentious issues.
Above all maintain good decorum.
Only when the blood runs and the shackles restrain, will the sheep then awake. When all is lost.

Ivellious
Esteemed Senior Member
Posts: 1046
Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2011 8:48 pm
Christian: No
Sex: Male
Creation Position: I don't believe in creation
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0

Re: Atheist/Evolutionist

#6

Post by Ivellious » Thu Feb 16, 2012 2:15 pm

I agree, Stu. If a legitimate academic discussion is going on, the teacher probably should let it go on, and facilitate it if he/she can.

But even then, there comes a point where in class the teacher may have to say enough is enough, in order to get on with teaching what he/she is being paid to teach. I don't know exactly, what happened in this case, but if the argument is taking over a class and becoming disruptive to the teacher's ability to teach the subject, a teacher can and probably will say that the argument is getting in the way of the class. If a student persists, then the teacher needs to deal with the problem.

The key in discussing things like this is to do your homework on the topic (so you know what you are talking about) and to not get personal with it. Also, you need to respect the teacher's right to move on from the discussion and teach as usual.

Katabole
Valued Member
Posts: 365
Joined: Wed Dec 26, 2007 12:42 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Gap Theory
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 19 times

Re: Atheist/Evolutionist

#7

Post by Katabole » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:33 am

Bovey,

You didn't specify what type of class this is being discussed in. Is it in biology, chemistry or physics class? Also, was it regarding the origins of life? If it is, I would humbly suggest that the next time your teacher brings up a question regarding human origins or the origin of life in general, that you speak up and claim that human origins should not be taught in biology class because science cannot answer the questions as to why life originated. Those questions as to why pertain only to Theology. Science can partially answer the questions as to how life developed however.

A few years ago the queen of England had a gala dinner and invited a number of scientists to attend. One of them was British chemist Peter Atkins. During a conversation Atkins had with Prince Phillip, Phillip said to Atkins, "You scientists are very good at answering the 'How' questions. But you don't have any answers regarding the 'Why' questions." Atkins answered and said, "Your highness, the 'Why' questions are irrelevant."

Your teacher probably doen't want to bring up the Bible because he would be fired from his position as a teacher, if the current curriculum from his schoolboard doesn't adhere to Biblical principles and only to science. It is next to impossible though to have a rational debate with a person that refuses to listen, regardless of how rational you come across. Maybe you can ask your teacher to come to this forum and post some questions.

Watch the following video. It's a discussion and debate between mathematics professor John Lennox a professing Christian and atheist professor, evolutionist and ethicist Peter Singer. Singer is infamous for claiming that a new born baby has no more value than a pig, a dog or a chimpanzee. Maybe this discussion will help give you some ammunition to understand atheism.

Is There a God? Peter Singer debates John Lennox

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXwhRvIfRj8

Hope that helps.
Well it may be the devil or it may be the Lord but you know you gotta serve somebody. Bob Dylan

Every one that is of the truth hears my voice. Jesus from John 18:37

CallMeDave
Valued Member
Posts: 289
Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2012 12:45 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Young-Earth Creationist
Location: Northwest FLorida
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 1 time

Re: Atheist/Evolutionist

#8

Post by CallMeDave » Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:46 am

Bovey wrote:I had a question that was similar to the one of spartans about atheist. I had a teacher that is a staunch atheist and evolutionist. I've tried many times in the past to bring up the Bible and much evidence against the theory of evolution but he silenced me and either made me sit in the hall or go to the principals office. How do I approach a person like this? I want to share all of my information with him but he won't listen. Just asking for a few suggestions. Thanks in advanced. :D

Instead of leaving an anonymous shiny red apple on his desk , leave a copy of this : http://impactapologetics.com/i-dont-hav ... p3-or-cds/
"I never asserted such an absurd proposition, that something could arise without a Cause" -- staunch atheist Philosopher David Hume.

"What this world now needs is Christian love or compassion" -- staunch atheist Bertrand Russell.

Bovey
Familiar Member
Posts: 27
Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:11 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Young-Earth Creationist
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0

Re: Atheist/Evolutionist

#9

Post by Bovey » Tue Feb 28, 2012 10:23 am

Guys you got me wrong, I'm homeschooled as of 2011, and stu you did het it dead on. I am talking about just the two of us in conversation. When I was getting taught by him I didn't bring up any Bible verses what so ever, I just tried to bring up a couple facts that go against what he was teaching, just to make that clear. I just wanted to bring up some facts that he may be overlooking such as the simple law of biogenesis and how the big bang and evolution completely contradicts this scientific law, just to open a window in his brain not to completely convert him. I see him every once in a while and I was just wondering how to appraoch him as say a friend, don't get me wrong he is a nice guy but very strict about his beliefs. It was biology katabole.
Mt. Olive Lutheran (LCMS)
Psalm 91
John 3:27-28

CallMeDave
Valued Member
Posts: 289
Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2012 12:45 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Young-Earth Creationist
Location: Northwest FLorida
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 1 time

Re: Atheist/Evolutionist

#10

Post by CallMeDave » Tue Feb 28, 2012 10:32 am

Bovey wrote:Guys you got me wrong, I'm homeschooled as of 2011, and stu you did het it dead on. I am talking about just the two of us in conversation. When I was getting taught by him I didn't bring up any Bible verses what so ever, I just tried to bring up a couple facts that go against what he was teaching, just to make that clear. I just wanted to bring up some facts that he may be overlooking such as the simple law of biogenesis and how the big bang and evolution completely contradicts this scientific law, just to open a window in his brain not to completely convert him. I see him every once in a while and I was just wondering how to appraoch him as say a friend, don't get me wrong he is a nice guy but very strict about his beliefs. It was biology katabole.

He still needs a copy of this : http://impactapologetics.com/i-dont-have-enough-faith/ . Most Teachers are atheistically brainwashed on naturalism and materialism for a worldview because of the relentless push on rejecting our personal theistic Creator everywhere in society.
"I never asserted such an absurd proposition, that something could arise without a Cause" -- staunch atheist Philosopher David Hume.

"What this world now needs is Christian love or compassion" -- staunch atheist Bertrand Russell.

Bovey
Familiar Member
Posts: 27
Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:11 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Young-Earth Creationist
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0

Re: Atheist/Evolutionist

#11

Post by Bovey » Tue Feb 28, 2012 11:00 am

CallMeDave wrote: He still needs a copy of this : http://impactapologetics.com/i-dont-have-enough-faith/ . Most Teachers are atheistically brainwashed on naturalism and materialism for a worldview because of the relentless push on rejecting our personal theistic Creator everywhere in society.
Thanks, I'll look into it a little more.
Mt. Olive Lutheran (LCMS)
Psalm 91
John 3:27-28

CallMeDave
Valued Member
Posts: 289
Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2012 12:45 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Young-Earth Creationist
Location: Northwest FLorida
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 1 time

Re: Atheist/Evolutionist

#12

Post by CallMeDave » Tue Feb 28, 2012 11:24 am

Bovey wrote:
CallMeDave wrote: He still needs a copy of this : http://impactapologetics.com/i-dont-have-enough-faith/ . Most Teachers are atheistically brainwashed on naturalism and materialism for a worldview because of the relentless push on rejecting our personal theistic Creator everywhere in society.
Thanks, I'll look into it a little more.

Its a bit cheaper here : http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_c_ ... Caps%2C311 . The trouble with nearly every atheist , is, they dont want to truly look into it because it is a ramification to their autonomy and chosen lifestyles. But, some are willing to still seek ...just not very many.
"I never asserted such an absurd proposition, that something could arise without a Cause" -- staunch atheist Philosopher David Hume.

"What this world now needs is Christian love or compassion" -- staunch atheist Bertrand Russell.

User avatar
RickD
Board Moderator
Posts: 20936
Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:59 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Day-Age
Location: Kitchen
Has liked: 190 times
Been liked: 1039 times

Re: Atheist/Evolutionist

#13

Post by RickD » Tue Feb 28, 2012 12:17 pm

I just wanted to bring up some facts that he may be overlooking such as the simple law of biogenesis and how the big bang and evolution completely contradicts this scientific law,
What kind of "facts" did you present, that say biogenesis is contradicted by the big bang?
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

Bovey
Familiar Member
Posts: 27
Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:11 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Young-Earth Creationist
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0

Re: Atheist/Evolutionist

#14

Post by Bovey » Tue Feb 28, 2012 12:27 pm

by factsfinder » Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:07 pm

Yes, his question is clear and what he means is to say that there was no life before
the big bang started,but biogenesis says that life generated from existing life,
his question how biogenesis can be understood according to the big bang theory
and of course he is assuming that nothing can be alive during the great explosion.

That was a response to the question I made on biology online, and how biogenesis relates to the big bang. According to the law of biogenesis no life can come from non-living things, and if there was no life before the big bang then how can there be life now?
Mt. Olive Lutheran (LCMS)
Psalm 91
John 3:27-28

User avatar
RickD
Board Moderator
Posts: 20936
Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:59 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Day-Age
Location: Kitchen
Has liked: 190 times
Been liked: 1039 times

Re: Atheist/Evolutionist

#15

Post by RickD » Tue Feb 28, 2012 12:35 pm

Bovey wrote:by factsfinder » Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:07 pm

Yes, his question is clear and what he means is to say that there was no life before
the big bang started,but biogenesis says that life generated from existing life,
his question how biogenesis can be understood according to the big bang theory
and of course he is assuming that nothing can be alive during the great explosion.

That was a response to the question I made on biology online, and how biogenesis relates to the big bang. According to the law of biogenesis no life can come from non-living things, and if there was no life before the big bang then how can there be life now?
God is the author of life. I'm not sure what the issue is, though. God is an eternal being who is alive. God created this physical universe via the big bang. God is not inside the physical universe, so there's no contradiction. What's the issue?
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

Post Reply