Atheists are hard to convert

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Re: Atheists are hard to convert

#211

Post by PaulSacramento » Fri Jun 29, 2012 7:28 am

I've had a few debates online and quite a few discussions live, but never with any "militant atheists".
They tend to be honest skeptics that either have a distorted view of the bible and Christian teachings OR they have been believers that have had honest and legit questions that believers have not be able to provide answers to which THEY agree.

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Re: Atheists are hard to convert

#212

Post by Reactionary » Fri Jun 29, 2012 8:13 am

Dudeacus97 wrote:As I said numerous times, most of their arguments are simply illogical insults that they spew towards people instead of a serious discussion.
It's a good thing that you noticed that at the age of 15 (if I remembered your age correctly). Once you see through the smokescreen of insults and mockery, you notice that there is almost nothing behind it. Except willful ignorance - most probably, because if it isn't it, then it's a problem with intelligence. How else to explain that someone seems to attack the idea of God as a "man" in the "sky" who is old and wears beard? (I came accross it a day or two ago). It must be the biggest straw man in history! It's not a disgrace not to know something, but it is to boast about your ignorance. They simply don't want to know the truth. If you try to tell them that God is not a "man" in the "sky", you only get insulted and attacked. It's either "UR DUMB", "UR A MORON", and related versions, or it's an outcry about how they're being "oppressed" by "evil", "hypocritical" Christians and their "god" who tortures people for fun.

So don't waste time with them. You'll only get upset yourself. You're young, enjoy your life rather than waste it on people who don't have one.

P.S. By "them" I was referring to a specific type of Internet commenters and/or bloggers who publicly disrespect Christianity, and anything and anyone who disagrees with them. I was not referring to atheists in general. I don't discriminate or generalize people on the basis of their beliefs or anything else. I had to write this disclaimer so that I don't get accused of "hate speech" as it happened once here. :roll:
Dudeacus97 wrote:Now, back to real life. I've never really had an apologetic experience IRL, but I've tried to by blatantly holding "What's So Great About Christianity" when I walk down the hall. There are plenty of times where I could have instigated a conversation ("Did you ever hear about this book?" "Do you believe in God?") but I didn't because then I would look like I'm pushing my faith on them. Plus, I'm not at the age where most people are thinking about religion (I'm a teenager) and many people aren't aware that there are great apologetic books out there.

Is there any good way to instigate a conversation or anything like that towards an atheist? Because I'm afraid of starting one because then I'll look like I'm forcing my religion onto people.
The only thing I do is, if I know that a friend of mine or a colleague is agnostic, when we talk about current events the conversation sometimes reaches Christianity or the Church. If I notice that the person has some incorrect views about Christianity, I politely correct it and I encourage him/her to ask questions. Among my circle of "influence" ( 8) ) I'm known as "the one who'll know about it" when a conversation is about Christianity, but I never actively "preach" to non-Christians. You're right that people might see it as pushy, and frankly, if someone came to me out of the blue, trying to convert me, I'd be slightly annoyed.

On the other hand, I encounter many nominal Christians (common at my age apparently) who either don't think about religion and worldviews (I don't blame them, it's a mind-consuming endeavour) or they seem to think that science has disproved Christianity, due to such claims being thrown around these days. So when I talk to them (again, if conversation reaches that topic), and present the case in a way that makes sense, I usually notice that they feel somewhat relieved when I answer their questions and/or doubts.
"Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces." Matthew 7:6

"For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse." Romans 1:20

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Re: Atheists are hard to convert

#213

Post by Dudeacus97 » Fri Jun 29, 2012 9:10 am

Reactionary wrote:
Dudeacus97 wrote:As I said numerous times, most of their arguments are simply illogical insults that they spew towards people instead of a serious discussion.
It's a good thing that you noticed that at the age of 15 (if I remembered your age correctly). Once you see through the smokescreen of insults and mockery, you notice that there is almost nothing behind it. Except willful ignorance - most probably, because if it isn't it, then it's a problem with intelligence. How else to explain that someone seems to attack the idea of God as a "man" in the "sky" who is old and wears beard? (I came accross it a day or two ago). It must be the biggest straw man in history! It's not a disgrace not to know something, but it is to boast about your ignorance. They simply don't want to know the truth. If you try to tell them that God is not a "man" in the "sky", you only get insulted and attacked. It's either "UR DUMB", "UR A MORON", and related versions, or it's an outcry about how they're being "oppressed" by "evil", "hypocritical" Christians and their "god" who tortures people for fun.

So don't waste time with them. You'll only get upset yourself. You're young, enjoy your life rather than waste it on people who don't have one.

P.S. By "them" I was referring to a specific type of Internet commenters and/or bloggers who publicly disrespect Christianity, and anything and anyone who disagrees with them. I was not referring to atheists in general. I don't discriminate or generalize people on the basis of their beliefs or anything else. I had to write this disclaimer so that I don't get accused of "hate speech" as it happened once here. :roll:
Dudeacus97 wrote:Now, back to real life. I've never really had an apologetic experience IRL, but I've tried to by blatantly holding "What's So Great About Christianity" when I walk down the hall. There are plenty of times where I could have instigated a conversation ("Did you ever hear about this book?" "Do you believe in God?") but I didn't because then I would look like I'm pushing my faith on them. Plus, I'm not at the age where most people are thinking about religion (I'm a teenager) and many people aren't aware that there are great apologetic books out there.

Is there any good way to instigate a conversation or anything like that towards an atheist? Because I'm afraid of starting one because then I'll look like I'm forcing my religion onto people.
The only thing I do is, if I know that a friend of mine or a colleague is agnostic, when we talk about current events the conversation sometimes reaches Christianity or the Church. If I notice that the person has some incorrect views about Christianity, I politely correct it and I encourage him/her to ask questions. Among my circle of "influence" ( 8) ) I'm known as "the one who'll know about it" when a conversation is about Christianity, but I never actively "preach" to non-Christians. You're right that people might see it as pushy, and frankly, if someone came to me out of the blue, trying to convert me, I'd be slightly annoyed.

On the other hand, I encounter many nominal Christians (common at my age apparently) who either don't think about religion and worldviews (I don't blame them, it's a mind-consuming endeavour) or they seem to think that science has disproved Christianity, due to such claims being thrown around these days. So when I talk to them (again, if conversation reaches that topic), and present the case in a way that makes sense, I usually notice that they feel somewhat relieved when I answer their questions and/or doubts.
The idea of God being a man in the sky has always been thrown at me. It isn't the biggest straw man in history, though. The ideas that heaven is literally in the clouds and that Hell is literally underground are equal to it or even bigger. The ideas probably originate from the Divine Comedy, which I know about because there's an awesome game based off of it that many people accuse of being a "God of War Clone", but hey, if it's a God of War clone, I could certainly use some more God of War clones. Yes, almost every video of the game on YouTube has a flame war.

I think I'll use your idea for apologetics, to simply wait for the subject to come up in a conversation. One of my hobbies is writing, and Christianity oftentimes comes up in it. I am currently writing scripts for a South Park-like TV Show, and I can explain it if you want me to because it's weird and I don't feel like it. Some of the episodes include one where Michael Bay becomes God when God gets a hangover, a family of hardcore atheists move into town from Santa Fe after Die Hard gets shown in schools before Christmas (they got offended by the phrase Jesus F'n Christ repeated by McClane throughout the film), and another where aliens describe Christianity as "A very prominent religion on Earth, along with other prominent ones such as Islam, Darwin Worship, and Twilight. Some Christian rites include yelling "JESUS F****** CHRIST" every time you are slightly suprised by anything." (They learned English with XBOX Live.) I even tried to write a novel about a hero going on a mission from God to find the Secret of the Universe with his black sidekick. I can explain that more if you want me to because it makes about as much sense, if not less. I got about eighty pages into that book before accidentally deleting all of the pages that featured a character I didn't like. They're all supposed to be ridiculous and not make a lot of sense. I like to talk about these a lot (most of my friends find them hilarious) and I know that it isn't a very effective way to start it because it's supposed to be funny, but it kind of establishes that I am a very religious person, seeing how it comes up so much and I actually know what I'm talking about, unlike Family Guy.

As for how long it took me to realize that they are baseless, like a barking chiuhauha, it sounds nasty, but it's really a little dog that can't hold on it's own, I heard "Christians are dumb" and I thought "Well, what's the evidence behind that?" Then I realized that there is none. It has about as much footing as saying that atheists worship satan, which is rididculous because you have to believe in Satan to worship him, and if you believe in Satan, then you believe in God. Another way I found out is I thought "What if these arguments were reversed" and I realized how bad they were. Not to mention their attitude towards comedy. If I went and posted some jokes about atheists on YouTube, such as when the otters kill The Wise One in "Go God Go XII", an episode of South Park, I would be subject only to ridicule (not to mention all of the insults that WLC and D'Souza are the brunt of). But religious jokes from Family Guy are apparently fine, even though they are completely lame, ridiculous, and completely false. Another way to describe their bickering is bumper sticker theology, cute little sayings that you put on your bumper that nobody objects to because they're not worth their time.
"Christianity has always embraced both reason and faith."
-Dinesh D'Souza

"Stop listening to John Lennon and start listening to John Lennox! What about a world without the atheists? A word with no Stalin, no Mao, no Pol Pot? A world with no Gulag, no Cultural Revolution, no Killing Fields? Wouldn't that be a world worth dreaming about?"
-John Lennox

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Re: Atheists are hard to convert

#214

Post by spartanII » Sun Jul 22, 2012 12:35 am

I like this forum because the people are nice and truly care about others. I remember one guy telling a doubter that he would buy him a book, send to his house and all, if he was interested. That's true love beyond yourself. It may seem like a "little thing" just because it's a book, but it is a true sign of love outside yourself, exemplifying something deeper.
Atheist: "Science says it, I believe it, That settles it."

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Re: Atheists are hard to convert

#215

Post by FredHahn » Mon Sep 10, 2012 3:19 pm

I'm new here - a friend said this was the place to come to get good answers.

I read this in the first post in this thread.

Atheist: "Science says it, I believe it, That settles it."

This is not true. All good scientists will say that, except for very few things that we do know, we do NOT know. We are still learning. It is those who say they know that have the closed mind. We do NOT know the origin of the universe. To say that God did it is to state that you know, when none of us know. So who has the closed mind - the man who says he knows or the man who says he doesn't know. y:-?

I think it is fine to speculate that a creator of sorts may have in fact started the big bang say or started the universe in ways we simply cannot comprehend. But to state that we know it was God and specifically, the Christian God of the bible is to have a closed mind about life's true origins.

Humans are a want to know and understand species. We are desperate to fill in the gaps. But to pretend that some book written by nomadic peoples who didn't even know what a tornado actually was is the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth is pretty shortsighted in my view.

What would you all say is the very best, single piece of evidence to prove - for certain - that the Christian God is THE God?

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Re: Atheists are hard to convert

#216

Post by Danieltwotwenty » Sun Sep 23, 2012 6:27 pm

I'm new here - a friend said this was the place to come to get good answers.

I read this in the first post in this thread.

Atheist: "Science says it, I believe it, That settles it."

This is not true. All good scientists will say that, except for very few things that we do know, we do NOT know. We are still learning. It is those who say they know that have the closed mind. We do NOT know the origin of the universe. To say that God did it is to state that you know, when none of us know. So who has the closed mind - the man who says he knows or the man who says he doesn't know.
Hi welcome to the forum, I would say that quote is there in jest and not to be taken seriously.
I think it is fine to speculate that a creator of sorts may have in fact started the big bang say or started the universe in ways we simply cannot comprehend. But to state that we know it was God and specifically, the Christian God of the bible is to have a closed mind about life's true origins.

Humans are a want to know and understand species. We are desperate to fill in the gaps. But to pretend that some book written by nomadic peoples who didn't even know what a tornado actually was is the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth is pretty shortsighted in my view.

What would you all say is the very best, single piece of evidence to prove - for certain - that the Christian God is THE God?
There is no single one piece of evidence, that's like asking a evolutionist to prove his case with one piece of evidence.

There is a mountain of evidence for the Christian God ranging from the philosophical, scientific, historical, to personal experience.

Probably best to start on the main site as there is a wealth of information there and then ask questions from there.


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Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners of whom I am the worst. But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life. Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever.Amen.

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Re: Atheists are hard to convert

#217

Post by neo-x » Sun Sep 23, 2012 9:27 pm

What would you all say is the very best, single piece of evidence to prove - for certain - that the Christian God is THE God?
I would ask you, what nature of evidence are you looking for precisely? please expound on this.
It would be a blessing if they missed the cairns and got lost on the way back. Or if
the Thing on the ice got them tonight.

I could only turn and stare in horror at the chief surgeon.
Death by starvation is a terrible thing, Goodsir, continued Stanley.
And with that we went below to the flame-flickering Darkness of the lower deck
and to a cold almost the equal of the Dante-esque Ninth Circle Arctic Night
without.


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Re: Atheists are hard to convert

#218

Post by Kurieuo » Tue Sep 25, 2012 7:08 pm

neo-x wrote:
What would you all say is the very best, single piece of evidence to prove - for certain - that the Christian God is THE God?
I would ask you, what nature of evidence are you looking for precisely? please expound on this.
That our world is so structured, stable and predictable through senses we rely upon to impart to us truth that our self can be justified when it comes to reasonably knowing something is true or false.

The world could otherwise be chaotic, random and unpredictable. Our senses we trust could be otherwise calibrated to allow us to survive rather than necessarily impart truth. Our real existence such that there is a true "self" that really can know -- rather than our feeling that we exist actually being an illusion produced by our physical composition determined by physics and atoms.

A reasonable conclusion gets you to God. Christ you must examine the evidence and judge for yourself. Proving something to someone is subjective to the person examining the evidence. Try to prove to a man who doesn't believe he exists that he exists. You can't even get started. Beliefs are not necessarily produced via reason or evidence alone.

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