A Bible Reading/Study

cslewislover · Post by **cslewislover** » Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:54 pm

1 John 3 (New International Version) (Bible Gateway)

1How great is the love the Father has lavished on us, that we should be called children of God! And that is what we are! The reason the world does not know us is that it did not know him. 2Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when he appears,[a]we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is. 3Everyone who has this hope in him purifies himself, just as he is pure.

4Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness. 5But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin. 6No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.

7Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. He who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. 8He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work. 9No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. 10This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother.

[Love one another]
11This is the message you heard from the beginning: We should love one another. 12Do not be like Cain, who belonged to the evil one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his own actions were evil and his brother's were righteous. 13Do not be surprised, my brothers, if the world hates you. 14We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love our brothers. Anyone who does not love remains in death. 15Anyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life in him.

16This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers. 17If anyone has material possessions and sees his brother in need but has no pity on him, how can the love of God be in him? 18Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but with actions and in truth. 19This then is how we know that we belong to the truth, and how we set our hearts at rest in his presence 20whenever our hearts condemn us. For God is greater than our hearts, and he knows everything.

21Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God 22and receive from him anything we ask, because we obey his commands and do what pleases him. 23And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us. 24Those who obey his commands live in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us.

Footnotes:

a. 1 John 3:2 Or when it is made known

Gabrielman · Post by **Gabrielman** » Sun Jan 03, 2010 11:37 pm

Thank you again for posting this!!!!
Okay so I don't really have any questions for Chapter 2, it actually answered some of mine from one, lol, but I do have a few here.

cslewislover wrote:2Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when he appears,[a]we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is.

Okay I was always under the idea that we could never lay eyes on God Himself, as it would be too much for us to comprehend, so does this mean that when we are in the spirit that it will not be so? Hm, just wondering, lol I know that isn't what this is all about, but I just like to know stuff!

cslewislover wrote: 4Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness. 5But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin. 6No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.

Okay I know that we all sin, and that is because we are sinful beings. But this confuses me. He doesn't mean that those who are born again will never sin again, does he?
Thank you again for making this thread!!! It is helping to read the word more!!!!!

cslewislover · Post by **cslewislover** » Mon Jan 04, 2010 12:22 am

Gabrielman wrote: Thank you again for posting this!!!!
Okay so I don't really have any questions for Chapter 2, it actually answered some of mine from one, lol, but I do have a few here.

cslewislover wrote:2Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when he appears,[a]we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is.
Okay I was always under the idea that we could never lay eyes on God Himself, as it would be too much for us to comprehend, so does this mean that when we are in the spirit that it will not be so? Hm, just wondering, lol I know that isn't what this is all about, but I just like to know stuff!

Oh, well this refers to when He returns, and I'll have to get the verse from one of Paul's letters. When He returns we shall get glorified bodies like His. But it does make it sound like we won't see Him before that, when we are spirit or soul, so I'd like to look into that more!

cslewislover wrote:4Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness. 5But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin. 6No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.
Okay I know that we all sin, and that is because we are sinful beings. But this confuses me. He doesn't mean that those who are born again will never sin again, does he?
Thank you again for making this thread!!! It is helping to read the word more!!!!!

Well, I believe it means that no one in Christ has the sin nature anymore, so they won't keep "sinning," like following our old sin nature. I'm in a rush and may come back to this. I'm so glad you like it and it is helping you, and you find things to question and think about!

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Gabrielman · Post by **Gabrielman** » Mon Jan 04, 2010 2:58 am

Thank you for your answers!!!!

cslewislover wrote: Well, I believe it means that no one in Christ has the sin nature anymore, so they won't keep "sinning," like following our old sin nature. I'm in a rush and may come back to this. I'm so glad you like it and it is helping you, and you find things to question and think about!

Okay so let me just ask one more thing on this (lol there may actually be more to come) What if there was an alcoholic who came to Christ, but was having trouble in his alcoholism? Like he truly accepted Christ as his Lord and Savior, but he is having trouble with not getting drunk anymore, would he still be saved even thought he is doing this sinful thing if he really is sorry for doing it? Just trying to get an example out there! Thank you so much for your help!!!!

cslewislover wrote: +

Jac3510 · Post by **Jac3510** » Mon Jan 04, 2010 12:03 pm

Gabe,

If I may, an alternative view to your question about Christians and sin is that every Christian has two natures--the old sinful nature which he will battle until death (cf. Rom 7-8) and the new nature which is not capable of sin. You choose each day which you will walk in, moment to moment.

I don't think advocates of the one nature view take this passage seriously enough. It says that the new man is not capable of sin. NOT CAPABLE. But even if you take the lighter view that they won't "keep on" sinning, you have to ask, "how much is 'keep on'"? You never know if you are saved. Notice the text does NOT say the real believer won't keep on sinning without repentance--that if you keep on sinning but keep on repenting you know you are saved. It says that the new man will not sin. Period. If you take that in a continuous, "keep on" sense, then you have the flat statement that the new man won't keep on sinning. Nothing about repentence.

So, like I said, just an alternative. Seems to make much more sense to me to recognize that the believer has two natures, hense the exhortations all over the NT to walk in the Spirit, to put off the old man and put on the new, to die to self daily, etc.

God bless

Furstentum Liechtenstein · Mon Jan 04, 2010 7:29 pm

Jac3510 wrote:Gabe,

If I may, an alternative view to your question about Christians and sin is that every Christian has two natures--the old sinful nature which he will battle until death (cf. Rom 7-8) and the new nature which is not capable of sin. You choose each day which you will walk in, moment to moment.

I don't think advocates of the one nature view take this passage seriously enough. It says that the new man is not capable of sin. NOT CAPABLE. But even if you take the lighter view that they won't "keep on" sinning, you have to ask, "how much is 'keep on'"? You never know if you are saved. Notice the text does NOT say the real believer won't keep on sinning without repentance--that if you keep on sinning but keep on repenting you know you are saved. It says that the new man will not sin. Period. If you take that in a continuous, "keep on" sense, then you have the flat statement that the new man won't keep on sinning. Nothing about repentence.

So, like I said, just an alternative. Seems to make much more sense to me to recognize that the believer has two natures, hense the exhortations all over the NT to walk in the Spirit, to put off the old man and put on the new, to die to self daily, etc.

God bless

Excellent. Very well said. Easy to understand.

FL

cslewislover · Post by **cslewislover** » Tue Jan 05, 2010 3:17 pm

Okay this part I have encountered a lot in life. Isn't it referring to those who claim to be in Christ but still live sinful lives? Many a time I ask people who say they are Christians why they live a certain way and they say it is because God will forgive them anyway so why worry. So that is what this is getting at, I believe.

cslewislover wrote:[ch 3]4Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness. 5But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin. 6No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.
Okay I know that we all sin, and that is because we are sinful beings. But this confuses me. He doesn't mean that those who are born again will never sin again, does he?

No. Back in Chapter 1-2, John writes: 8If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives. 1My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have one who speaks to the Father in our defense—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One.

1 John 1:8-9. "Sinning" refers to our corrupt evil nature, "sins" are the evils we have done.

See Titus Ch. 3:3-8. Titus 3:3-8 (NIV) 3At one time we too were foolish, disobedient, deceived and enslaved by all kinds of passions and pleasures. We lived in malice and envy, being hated and hating one another. 4But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared, 5he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, 6whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7so that, having been justified by his grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life. 8This is a trustworthy saying. And I want you to stress these things, so that those who have trusted in God may be careful to devote themselves to doing what is good. These things are excellent and profitable for everyone.

Just so I don't have to get more into it here, about regeneration, here is a very short but good article on this very subject: "How bad can a Christian sin?" Got Questions? Another really great article on sin in general can be found here, from Theology Network The Fall and Sin This is a much longer but very informative article.

Thank you again for making this thread!!! It is helping to read the word more!!!!!

I think it's time for a refill!! We need a biscotti or cookie emoticon!

+

I'm glad you can read the bible here. We are so blessed in this place and age that we can have basically unlimited access to God's word, in different versions and languages. Chapter 4 follows; be blessed and enjoy!

cslewislover · Post by **cslewislover** » Tue Jan 05, 2010 3:20 pm

1 John 4 (NIV)

[Test the Spirits]
1Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.

4You, dear children, are from God and have overcome them, because the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world. 5They are from the world and therefore speak from the viewpoint of the world, and the world listens to them. 6We are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us; but whoever is not from God does not listen to us. This is how we recognize the Spirit[a] of truth and the spirit of falsehood.

[God's Love and Ours]
7Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. 8Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love. 9This is how God showed his love among us: He sent his one and only Son into the world that we might live through him. 10This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for[c] our sins. 11Dear friends, since God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. 12No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us.

13We know that we live in him and he in us, because he has given us of his Spirit. 14And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world. 15If anyone acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in him and he in God. 16And so we know and rely on the love God has for us.
God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in him. 17In this way, love is made complete among us so that we will have confidence on the day of judgment, because in this world we are like him. 18There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.

19We love because he first loved us. 20If anyone says, "I love God," yet hates his brother, he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen. 21And he has given us this command: Whoever loves God must also love his brother.

Footnotes:

a. 1 John 4:6 Or spirit
b. 1 John 4:9 Or his only begotten Son
c. 1 John 4:10 Or as the one who would turn aside his wrath, taking away

Gabrielman · Post by **Gabrielman** » Wed Jan 06, 2010 2:51 am

+

I could always use more coffee!!!!

cslewislover wrote: No. Back in Chapter 1-2, John writes: 8If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives. 1My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have one who speaks to the Father in our defense—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One.

Thank you! That does help out! This Bible study is very edifying!!!!

Thanks for posting 4 as well!!!! I didn't really have any questions on it, but I will have to look over it some more later and read it closer just to make sure! LOL! I can't wait to see chapter five!!!!

I mean on the board, lol yes I could read it in my Bible too! God Bless!!!!!

cslewislover · Post by **cslewislover** » Wed Jan 06, 2010 9:51 pm

cslewislover wrote:
Gabrielman wrote: Thank you again for posting this!!!!
Okay so I don't really have any questions for Chapter 2, it actually answered some of mine from one, lol, but I do have a few here.

cslewislover wrote:2Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when he appears,[a]we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is.
Okay I was always under the idea that we could never lay eyes on God Himself, as it would be too much for us to comprehend, so does this mean that when we are in the spirit that it will not be so? Hm, just wondering, lol I know that isn't what this is all about, but I just like to know stuff!
Oh, well this refers to when He returns, and I'll have to get the verse from one of Paul's letters. When He returns we shall get glorified bodies like His. But it does make it sound like we won't see Him before that, when we are spirit or soul, so I'd like to look into that more!

Hi Nathaniel!

So I did look into this some more, and I still am, and you can see what I have posted about it (and see related posts, of course) so far in this thread: http://discussions.godandscience.org/vi ... =3&t=33992 Anyone, please join in there if you feel so inclined!

While I'm here, I'll post Chapter 5, which is the last of 1 John.

1 John 5 (NIV, Bible Gateway)

[Faith in the Son of God]
1Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves the father loves his child as well. 2This is how we know that we love the children of God: by loving God and carrying out his commands. 3This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome, 4for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. 5Who is it that overcomes the world? Only he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God.

6This is the one who came by water and blood—Jesus Christ. He did not come by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth. 7For there are three that testify: 8the[a] Spirit, the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement. 9We accept man's testimony, but God's testimony is greater because it is the testimony of God, which he has given about his Son. 10Anyone who believes in the Son of God has this testimony in his heart. Anyone who does not believe God has made him out to be a liar, because he has not believed the testimony God has given about his Son. 11And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life.

[Concluding Remarks]
13I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life. 14This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us. 15And if we know that he hears us—whatever we ask—we know that we have what we asked of him.

16If anyone sees his brother commit a sin that does not lead to death, he should pray and God will give him life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that he should pray about that. 17All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin that does not lead to death.

18We know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin; the one who was born of God keeps him safe, and the evil one cannot harm him. 19We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one. 20We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true—even in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.

21Dear children, keep yourselves from idols.

Footnotes:
a. 1 John 5:8 Late manuscripts of the Vulgate testify in heaven: the Father, the Word and the Holy Spirit, and these three are one. 8 And there are three that testify on earth: the (not found in any Greek manuscript before the sixteenth century)

Gabrielman · Post by **Gabrielman** » Fri Jan 08, 2010 1:53 am

cslewislover wrote: Hi Nathaniel! So I did look into this some more, and I still am, and you can see what I have posted about it (and see related posts, of course) so far in this thread: http://discussions.godandscience.org/vi ... =3&t=33992 Anyone, please join in there if you feel so inclined!

While I'm here, I'll post Chapter 5, which is the last of 1 John.

Hi Vicki!!!!

Thank you for your help with John!!! Can't wait to start the next book!!! And thanks for the thread link, lol but I will have to read it over before I can post on it!!!

cslewislover wrote: 21Dear children, keep yourselves from idols.

I am eagerly awaiting the next one!!! No questions on this chapter, and thanks again for all your help!!!

Zebulon · Post by **Zebulon** » Fri Jan 08, 2010 6:22 am

cslewislover wrote:1 John 4 (NIV)

[Test the Spirits]
1Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.

From another source (no copyright and free to read)

As we enter the 21st century and a new millennium, Satan has devised the delusion that mankind is entering into an important evolutionary phase called the New Age. The current push for "global enlightenment" is but one outward form of the New Age movement in their attempt to bring the world into a single-thinking Order, complete with a new religion, as well as otherworldly god-like beings for which to venerate and worship. Interviews taken of ex-Wiccans and Satanists indicate a high level of personal contact with various alien beings accompanying certain coven rituals such as the sacrificial rites of the Black Mass. Morever, those coming from the highest echelon of Satanism believe these same beings to inhabit the earth as demons. They also believe the first established civilization was Atlantis and that Satan was its King before its destruction. However, their otherwise insidious assertion that superior beings are out there providing us technology and spiritual wisdom to become Gods is something Satan always knew could effectively tempt us, after all, the promise made toward our ancestors that they also could become as enlightened Gods if they simply renounce God and His plan was a lie that worked quite well before in Eden. In Genesis 3, we read about Satan in his form as the Nachash (Hebrew; Serpent), an extremely intelligent cunning creature possessed with the ability to speak and reason. This same Nachash or Shining Serpent/Dragon used his vast intelligence to beguile Eve into bringing not eternal life as a God for herself and Adam, yet Sin and eternal Death. Believing the deception of the Nachash Serpent, Adam and Eve fell from their original blessed state and were cast out of the Garden, the archetype of being cast out of Heaven. As a result both Satan and his demonic Angels have been engaged in continual warfare against the human race ever since, striving to drag the collective souls of mankind further down to their own level, whereby man would die in their non-repentive un-Godly sins and live out an eternal existence in unescapable punishment, just as they.

Zebulon

cslewislover · Post by **cslewislover** » Fri Jan 08, 2010 10:09 am

Zebulon wrote:
cslewislover wrote:1 John 4 (NIV)

[Test the Spirits]
1Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.
From another source (no copyright and free to read)
As we enter the 21st century and a new millennium, Satan has devised the delusion that mankind is entering into an important evolutionary phase called the New Age. . . .
Zebulon

Hey Zeb. When you say "another source," it makes it sound like your source is comparable to what you quoted above it, which is straight from the bible. But what you provided is some kind of commentary, and not the bible, so I wanted to make that clear to readers who may not know.

Besides that, if you are going to quote someone, you really should provide the actual source so that anyone who is interested can check that source is they so desire. To see how credible or not it is.

cslewislover · Post by **cslewislover** » Fri Jan 08, 2010 10:45 am

Gabrielman wrote:
cslewislover wrote: Hi Nathaniel! So I did look into this some more, and I still am, and you can see what I have posted about it (and see related posts, of course) so far in this thread: //discussions.godandscience.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=33992 Anyone, please join in there if you feel so inclined!

While I'm here, I'll post Chapter 5, which is the last of 1 John.
Hi Vicki!!!! Thank you for your help with John!!! Can't wait to start the next book!!! And thanks for the thread link, lol but I will have to read it over before I can post on it!!!
cslewislover wrote: 21Dear children, keep yourselves from idols.

I am eagerly awaiting the next one!!! No questions on this chapter, and thanks again for all your help!!!

Hi Nathaniel!!

Ok. The next three "books" are very very short, and I was wondering if I should keep going directly and include Revelation. I think I will. The beginning of Revelation is very good to meditate on, and the rest is highly interesting, with Angels and destruction and all

, even if none of us know what all of it means for certain. A lot of people don't read Revelation, from what I can tell, so it would be good to post it I think. Any lengthy discussions or hair-raising debates can be directed to another thread.

Care for some?

cslewislover · Post by **cslewislover** » Fri Jan 08, 2010 10:49 am

2 John (NIV; Bible Gateway)

1The elder,
To the chosen lady and her children, whom I love in the truth—and not I only, but also all who know the truth - 2because of the truth, which lives in us and will be with us forever:

3Grace, mercy and peace from God the Father and from Jesus Christ, the Father's Son, will be with us in truth and love.

4It has given me great joy to find some of your children walking in the truth, just as the Father commanded us. 5And now, dear lady, I am not writing you a new command but one we have had from the beginning. I ask that we love one another. 6And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love.

7Many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist. 8Watch out that you do not lose what you have worked for, but that you may be rewarded fully. 9Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. 10If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him. 11Anyone who welcomes him shares in his wicked work.

12I have much to write to you, but I do not want to use paper and ink. Instead, I hope to visit you and talk with you face to face, so that our joy may be complete.

13The children of your chosen sister send their greetings.

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