A Bible Reading/Study

Discussions amongst Christians about life issues, walking with Christ, and general Christian topics that don't fit under any other area.
cslewislover
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A Bible Reading/Study

#1

Post by cslewislover » Wed Dec 30, 2009 9:53 pm

I've been having trouble reading my bible as much as I should, so I thought it would be helpful for me - and I very much hope for others - to start a bible study. I am going to start with 1 John--just because I feel like it. :) Please read along and comment or inquire.


1 John 1 (New International Version) (from Bible Gateway)

1 John 1
[The Word of Life]
1That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched—this we proclaim concerning the Word of life. 2The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us. 3We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ. 4We write this to make our[a] joy complete.

[Walking in the light]
5This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all. 6If we claim to have fellowship with him yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth. 7But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.

8If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives.

Footnotes:
a. 1 John 1:4 Some manuscripts your
b. 1 John 1:7 Or every



Some info:
John speaks against the proto-Gnostic movement of denying the incarnation. The Gnostics thought matter was evil, and so claimed that the divine really didn't come in the flesh (1:1). They also denied that our immoral acts were really sin (1:10).
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Re: A Bible Study

#2

Post by Gabrielman » Wed Dec 30, 2009 10:53 pm

Thanks for posting this Vicki!!!!!!! :D
cslewislover wrote: Walking in the light
5This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all. 6If we claim to have fellowship with him yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth. 7But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.

Okay this part I have encountered a lot in life. Isn't it referring to those who claim to be in Christ but still live sinful lives? Many a time I ask people who say they are Christians why they live a certain way and they say it is because God will forgive them anyway so why worry. So that is what this is getting at, I believe.
I think this thread is a really good idea!!!!! Thank you so much for posting it!!!! I can't wait to see what your thoughts on this are!!!!!!!!!!!
Once I was trapped in a perpetual night, without even a star to light the sky. Now I stand in the glory of the Son, and not even a faint shadow of darkness remains.

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Re: A Bible Study

#3

Post by jlay » Thu Dec 31, 2009 7:58 am

We've had several discussions on this in other threads. Jac has a lot on this book.

Verse 5-7 is the key, This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all. 6If we claim to have fellowship with him yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth. 7But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.

This is about fellowship. (Koinonia) Are there Christians who are walking in darkness? Yes. As a beleiver, have you ever lived in a way that was in conflict with the Way? Me too. Yet, often we will say that we are walking in light, when we are in fact not. We are liars. Man oh man, that convicts me.
Many a time I ask people who say they are Christians why they live a certain way and they say it is because God will forgive them anyway so why worry. So that is what this is getting at, I believe.
As Jac and I have discussed, "can you judge a person's salvation by how they act?" Talk about a can of worms.
If people have the notion that they can do whatever they want and God will forgive them anyway, then they are using the Gospel as an occassion for the flesh. They are treating it with contempt. Does this mean they are not saved? We can't say, but I would have to wonder if they truly understood the cross to begin with. Not because they are sinning, but because of they simply see the cross as a get out of jail free card. Right salvation comes from right faith. Paul spoke of this attitude in Romans 6-7. We can't say this 'attitude' precludes someone from ever having rightly believed. We CAN say that they are most definately NOT in fellowship. But should we assume that they have come to a right belief? For one to come to right belief means they have come to see their sin in its right light, and thus can also see the cross for what it truly is. You can not seperate Christ from the cross. What does, "Jesus died for your sins," mean to someone who doesn't think they have a sin problem? The bible says it is 'foolishness.' I've known people who beleived carrying a rabbits foot would bring them good luck. How many have this same 'belief' toward Christ? How many are resting their eternal fate in that the cross is no more than a lucky charm?

So what should we do with such a person that you have described? "Let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins." James 5:20
If they are saved then we should seek to restore them to fellowship. And if not, seek to lead them to a true saving faith.

When I sin, I do have a great comfort in knowing that Christ has already atoned for my error. But I certainly don't delight in the idea, and I don't relish the next sin. If the HS has taken up residence, then there will be a war raging inside. If there is no conflict then one would have to wonder. "And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ." (Rom. 8:9)

Sin itself is not an indicator that one does or does not have saving faith. If that were the case then v8 and 9 would make no sense. I have sin, you have sin. We all have sin. But, as Paul writes in Romans, our relationship to sin has changed. Just this morning I had to weep over some thoughts I had the night before. As I sat down for my morning scripture reading (Rom 7 and 8) the conviction was all over me.

So, is 1 John a book that speaks of true and false conversion, or a book that seeks to lead a believer into lasting fellowship?
-“The Bible treated allegorically becomes putty in the hands of the exegete.” John Walvoord

"I'm not saying scientists don't overstate their results. They do. And it's understandable, too...If you spend years working toward a certain goal and make no progress, of course you are going to spin your results in a positive light." Ivellious

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Re: A Bible Study

#4

Post by cslewislover » Thu Dec 31, 2009 11:27 am

Lol, please, lets have an edifying bible study here (the bible is given so that people might read it). I'm perfectly aware that there are a number of threads on the salvation issue. This is not going to turn into one of them. For arguments and debates, readers can go to the other threads (I like what you say, I just don't want this turning into a big debate thread, that's not what it's for).

I guess if there seems to be a contentious verse, then it would be good to list some other verses in support of what you think it means, keeping it clear and simple. Let the bible speak. But context is always key, of course. As for sin and the Christian, more is said by John in the next chapter.

So, is 1 John a book that speaks of true and false conversion, or a book that seeks to lead a believer into lasting fellowship?


I'd vote for the later, generally (because without true conversion there is no lasting fellowship), but look at what he himself says about it in verse 5:13.
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Re: A Bible Study

#5

Post by cslewislover » Thu Dec 31, 2009 12:06 pm

Gabrielman wrote:Thanks for posting this Vicki!!!!!!! :D
cslewislover wrote: Walking in the light
5This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all. 6If we claim to have fellowship with him yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth. 7But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.

Okay this part I have encountered a lot in life. Isn't it referring to those who claim to be in Christ but still live sinful lives? Many a time I ask people who say they are Christians why they live a certain way and they say it is because God will forgive them anyway so why worry. So that is what this is getting at, I believe.
I think this thread is a really good idea!!!!! Thank you so much for posting it!!!! I can't wait to see what your thoughts on this are!!!!!!!!!!!


You're welcome!! I'm so glad you like this.

As far as I can tell, from other verses in the bible and taking the whole word of God in context, we will always sin. But there's a difference between willfully living a life of sin (which I believe is what you're talking about), and falling to temptation occasionally. As Jlay mentioned, a believer will be convicted - sooner or later - and we can't judge whether they are saved or not (I could say more, but we could pm about that). Chapter two, which is below, speaks to your question more. I will try and get some other verses about this, like I suggested in my previous post.


1 John 2 (New International Version) Bible Gateway

1My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have one who speaks to the Father in our defense—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. 2He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for[a] the sins of the whole world.

3We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. 4The man who says, "I know him," but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5But if anyone obeys his word, God's love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: 6Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.

7Dear friends, I am not writing you a new command but an old one, which you have had since the beginning. This old command is the message you have heard. 8Yet I am writing you a new command; its truth is seen in him and you, because the darkness is passing and the true light is already shining.

9Anyone who claims to be in the light but hates his brother is still in the darkness. 10Whoever loves his brother lives in the light, and there is nothing in him[c] to make him stumble. 11But whoever hates his brother is in the darkness and walks around in the darkness; he does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded him.

12I write to you, dear children,
because your sins have been forgiven on account of his name.
13I write to you, fathers,
because you have known him who is from the beginning.
I write to you, young men,
because you have overcome the evil one.
I write to you, dear children,
because you have known the Father.
14I write to you, fathers,
because you have known him who is from the beginning.
I write to you, young men,
because you are strong,
and the word of God lives in you,
and you have overcome the evil one.

[Do Not Love the World]
15Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16For everything in the world—the cravings of sinful man, the lust of his eyes and the boasting of what he has and does—comes not from the Father but from the world. 17The world and its desires pass away, but the man who does the will of God lives forever.
Warning Against Antichrists

18Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour. 19They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.

20But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and all of you know the truth.[d] 21I do not write to you because you do not know the truth, but because you do know it and because no lie comes from the truth. 22Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist—he denies the Father and the Son. 23No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also.

24See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father. 25And this is what he promised us—even eternal life.

26I am writing these things to you about those who are trying to lead you astray. 27As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit—just as it has taught you, remain in him.

[Children of God]
28And now, dear children, continue in him, so that when he appears we may be confident and unashamed before him at his coming.

29If you know that he is righteous, you know that everyone who does what is right has been born of him.

Footnotes:

a. 1 John 2:2 Or He is the one who turns aside God's wrath, taking away our sins, and not only ours but also
b. 1 John 2:5 Or word, love for God
c. 1 John 2:10 Or it
d. 1 John 2:20 Some manuscripts and you know all things

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Re: A Bible Study

#6

Post by jlay » Thu Dec 31, 2009 12:46 pm

CS, are you responding to me? If so, What are you getting your feathers ruffled for? I didn't mention the other discussion to downplay this thread or . My post was directly meant to address these opening verses of 1 john that you posted. I am more than ready to have an edifying study and participate as such. I don't know where you come to this reaction based on what I contributed.

If someone, in this case Gabriel, comes up with a question, based on the verses we are studying, are we to ignore it, because it doesn't suit your desire? Surely not.
-“The Bible treated allegorically becomes putty in the hands of the exegete.” John Walvoord

"I'm not saying scientists don't overstate their results. They do. And it's understandable, too...If you spend years working toward a certain goal and make no progress, of course you are going to spin your results in a positive light." Ivellious

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Re: A Bible Study

#7

Post by Gabrielman » Thu Dec 31, 2009 12:59 pm

Thank you for the next chapter Vicki!!!!! Yes I was asking if that verse was referring to people who just use the Christian name. I wasn't trying to say they were saved or not, just wanted to know what the verse was about. Thank you very much for making this thread, and your response.
cslewislover wrote: You're welcome!! I'm so glad you like this.

As far as I can tell, from other verses in the bible and taking the whole word of God in context, we will always sin. But there's a difference between willfully living a life of sin (which I believe is what you're talking about), and falling to temptation occasionally. As Jlay mentioned, a believer will be convicted - sooner or later - and we can't judge whether they are saved or not (I could say more, but we could pm about that). Chapter two, which is below, speaks to your question more. I will try and get some other verses about this, like I suggested in my previous post.
Yes I realize that we will always sin, but you are right I was wondering about those who live a willfully sinful life. I was just wondering if that is what that verse was getting at or not. Thank you and I will look at the other chapter and see what it says about it too!!!! I would love to have some coffee with you while we read this!!! y~o) + y~o)
Once I was trapped in a perpetual night, without even a star to light the sky. Now I stand in the glory of the Son, and not even a faint shadow of darkness remains.

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Re: A Bible Study

#8

Post by cslewislover » Thu Dec 31, 2009 1:01 pm

jlay wrote:CS, are you responding to me? If so, What are you getting your feathers ruffled for? I didn't mention the other discussion to downplay this thread or . My post was directly meant to address these opening verses of 1 john that you posted. I am more than ready to have an edifying study and participate as such. I don't know where you come to this reaction based on what I contributed.

If someone, in this case Gabriel, comes up with a question, based on the verses we are studying, are we to ignore it, because it doesn't suit your desire? Surely not.
jlay, I started this thread for a specific purpose and my response to you was very civil. There was nothing wrong with it. I WILL PM YOU ABOUT THIS.
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Re: A Bible Study

#9

Post by cslewislover » Thu Dec 31, 2009 2:06 pm

Folks, I put this in the Christian Chit Chat section so it can be seen that it's not a debate. Pretend that you're sitting with a group of Christians in your home and having a nice discussion about the bible. This is not a debate. This is not about telling the bible study person that keeps things flowing that they have too much authority or are not doing it right or whatever. There are other threads, plenty of them, where the once-saved-always-saved issue is discussed and debated. That's all I was getting at earlier.

* * *

I would like to add some comments from one of my commentaries (Believer's Bible Commentary by William MacDonald, p 2307), because it is both beautiful and helpful (the emphases are his):

" . . . . Another remarkable thing about this lovely book is that extremely deep spiritual truths are expressed in such short, simple sentences, with a vocabulary to match. Who says that deep truth must be put into complex sentences? We fear that what some people foolishly praise as 'deep' preaching or writing is merely muddy or unclear.

First John merits long meditation and sincere study. The apparently repetitious style actually repeats with slight differences -- and it is these shades of meaning that must be noted."
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Re: A Bible Study

#10

Post by cslewislover » Thu Dec 31, 2009 4:17 pm

Gabrielman wrote:Thank you for the next chapter Vicki!!!!! Yes I was asking if that verse was referring to people who just use the Christian name. I wasn't trying to say they were saved or not, just wanted to know what the verse was about. Thank you very much for making this thread, and your response.

Yes I realize that we will always sin, but you are right I was wondering about those who live a willfully sinful life. I was just wondering if that is what that verse was getting at or not. Thank you and I will look at the other chapter and see what it says about it too!!!! I would love to have some coffee with you while we read this!!! y~o) + y~o)
:esmile: y~o) + y~o) y@};- Amazingly, I have some biscotti for dunking, too!!! *passes biscotti*

I cite a commentary above, and I'm going to use the same one here just to give a little insight from it on a few verses. People may wish to quote or use other commentaries as well.

1 John 1:6. "A man who says he has fellowship with Him and habitually walks in darkness was never saved at all" (p 2310). (I'm just providing this for information sake; I'm not starting a debate here. Lol. I'll have to get the thread urls up so people can just go to them if they wish to view the debates on this.)

1 John 1:8-9. "Sinning" refers to our corrupt evil nature, "sins" are the evils we have done.

1John 1:9. This forgiveness is parental and not judicial. Judicial forgiveness is from the penalty of sins, obtained by God once, when we believe in Jesus Christ. Parental forgiveness is when God the Father forgives our sins after conversion so that we may continue to have fellowship with fellow believers.
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Re: A Bible Study

#11

Post by zoegirl » Thu Dec 31, 2009 5:16 pm

Gabrielman wrote:Thanks for posting this Vicki!!!!!!! :D
cslewislover wrote: Walking in the light
5This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all. 6If we claim to have fellowship with him yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth. 7But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.

Okay this part I have encountered a lot in life. Isn't it referring to those who claim to be in Christ but still live sinful lives? Many a time I ask people who say they are Christians why they live a certain way and they say it is because God will forgive them anyway so why worry. So that is what this is getting at, I believe.
I think this thread is a really good idea!!!!! Thank you so much for posting it!!!! I can't wait to see what your thoughts on this are!!!!!!!!!!!


This is nice idea Vicki...

GAberielman, I've heard this verse explained in the context of examining one's walk with God. If we are proud and look to ourselves as not needing Christ's atoning sacrifice .

The verses after this, I think, flesh out the idea of understanding our own psyche.

5This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all. 6If we claim to have fellowship with him yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth. 7But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.

8If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives.


Above all, it places Christ's work as supreme and our sins as real. It prevents any ducking the issue, we are sinners and any claim to anything else is false.
"And we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Jesus Christ"

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Re: A Bible Study

#12

Post by cslewislover » Thu Dec 31, 2009 5:42 pm

Thanks Amy, and thanks for your input.
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Re: A Bible Study

#13

Post by Gabrielman » Thu Dec 31, 2009 10:27 pm

cslewislover wrote: I cite a commentary above, and I'm going to use the same one here just to give a little insight from it on a few verses. People may wish to quote or use other commentaries as well.

1 John 1:6. "A man who says he has fellowship with Him and habitually walks in darkness was never saved at all" (p 2310). (I'm just providing this for information sake; I'm not starting a debate here. Lol. I'll have to get the thread urls up so people can just go to them if they wish to view the debates on this.)

1 John 1:8-9. "Sin" refers to our corrupt evil nature, "sins" are the evils we have done.

1John 1:9. This forgiveness is parental and not judicial. Judicial forgiveness is from the penalty of sins, obtained by God once, when we believe in Jesus Christ. Parental forgiveness is when God the Father forgives our sins after conversion so that we may continue to have fellowship with fellow believers.
Thank you very much Vicki!!!! That does help me understand a bit better. The first comentary that you posted on 1 John 1:6 was what I was getting at. That answers what I was wanting to know!!!!! Thank you very much!!!!! I need to get to chapter two here soon!!! But that was very helpful!!! That was why I made the example I did before. This is a very interesting topic I think. It was a good idea to start with this book!
cslewislover wrote: :esmile: y~o) + y~o) y@};- Amazingly, I have some biscotti for dunking, too!!! *passes biscotti*
:D MMMMMMMMMMM biscotti!!!! LOL i was just about to put some decafe on too!!!!! y~o) + y~o) y@};- y>:D<
zoegirl wrote:
GAberielman, I've heard this verse explained in the context of examining one's walk with God. If we are proud and look to ourselves as not needing Christ's atoning sacrifice .

The verses after this, I think, flesh out the idea of understanding our own psyche.
Thank you Zoe! I appriciate your input!!!!!!
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Re: A Bible Study

#14

Post by B. W. » Fri Jan 01, 2010 3:08 pm

cslewislover wrote:I've been having trouble reading my bible as much as I should, so I thought it would be helpful for me - and I very much hope for others - to start a bible study.... Please read along and comment or inquire.

1 John 1:1-4 (New International Version) (from Bible Gateway): [The Word of Life]
1That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched—this we proclaim concerning the Word of life. 2 The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us. 3 We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ. 4We write this to make our[a] joy complete....


I think looking at the first verse is a good beginning.

When reading the letters or the gospel of John, it is a good idea to understand that, John, the writer is writing with the Hebrew concepts of signs. This concept is lost in our scholastic western mindset and may seem foreign but it unlocks the Old Testament and clarifies things as well as takes your understanding on a journey.

Signs simply stated means: connecting the dots, How things from the OT fit together proving that Jesus is indeed who he says he is — pointing to Christ. Note Luke 24:44, 45 as an example of this. When reading the passage in Luke, the western scholastic methodical method limits the passage in a series of formularies pertaining to only the Law of Moses and the Psalms.

This method oft fails to note that it involves comprehending all the scriptures. The Scholastic approach limits these to just a few proof text verses here and there and misses all the signs that reveal how all the dots are connected revealing Christ plainly to us.

1 John 1:1 is such a verse: "That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched—this we proclaim concerning the Word of life" NIV

Word of Life is a sign — where is it in the Testament?

It is first found in Genesis 1:3. God's word brings Life out of nothing. Of this Word, is how God (Elohim — Majestic Plural One) reveals himself. Notice how Adam and Eve heard the sound of Yahweh Elohim walking in the cool of the day (Gen 3:8). They heard — this is a sign pointing that Yahweh Elohim is the Word.

Adam and Eve feared and hid from the Lord after they sinned. Note that the bible connects dot that state that it is the Word who brings life as well as banishes them from the Garden instead of annihilating them (Killing them on the spot). Yes, the death sentence is carried out when the flesh dies due to sin but the word of God endures forever (Isaiah 40:8). We do continue on after death ( note Isaiah 24:22, Job 26:5, 6) Please keep in mind the biblical concept - the Word brings Life and keep reading (Note - Ps 119:50, Acts 13:46, John 5:24).

This Word was first identified by Moses in Gen 3:8 as Yahweh Elohim who was heard — words are heard… Mose identifies Him again and again in Genesis to Abraham evidenced by confirming the oaths up to three times, use of third person speech in Genesis 17 and 18 and appearing as a Plural one in the from of three in Genesis 18.

Notice the confirmation of the thrice oaths used by God in Gen 12:2-3 in Genesis 17:5 and Genesis 22:14-18 (Notice the thrice confirmation of the promises (Father, Son, Holy Spirit — Elohim — Yahweh). The Word of Life confirmed the promise of life Genesis 22:17.

Moses wrote that this Word of Life appeared to Jacob in Genesis 28:12-13 and spoke. In Genesis 31:11, 13 - this Word of Life is introduced as the Malek Elohim who stated that He was God (EL) in verse 13. This was no mere angelic being who confronted Jacob.

The Hebrew word Malek — means simply a messenger (word / task bearer) — one who speaks and does tasks. It can mean a human messenger such as Abraham sent to find Isaac a wife. It can mean Angelic Beings sent on a task, and Malek can be used to denote God himself as a Malek — messenger — Word bearer. Malek in our English translations is often translated as angels so much that when referring to the Word of Life appearing to humanity — it is sadly lost in the translations.

Note — an Angel of God will never allow himself to be bowed too, worshiped ( Revelation 22:8, 9), nor say He is God as the Malek said so directly in Gen 31:13. Again, in Genesis 28:12 Jacob saw a ladder and plural — Maleks messengers ascending and descending. This next statement is controversial because we westerns faill to note the signs — these Malek's were not mere angelic beings but the Son and Holy Spirit and Yahweh identifies who they were by the usage of Yahweh, Elohim, and Elohim used in verse 13. We miss this — sadly… (Ponder it - test it out...on you own)

He is the one who appeared to Jacob in Bethal and gave him the Word of Life of Everlasting duration! Again Jacob was confronted by the Malek (Word Bearer) Elohim in Gen 31:11, 13 and identifies Himself as the God (El) of Bethal.

Genesis 32 Jacob encounters the Malek again and wrestles with him and said in Gen 32:30 he has seen God and Lived! This was no mere angelic being. Jacob wanted to know his name but the Lord remained silent for a latter time — another sign soon given in Gen 35.

Genesis 35 again Elohim tells Jacob to Go to Bethal. Gen 35:9, 11 and idenfies himself as El Shaddai where he reveals his name and confirm the oath.

I wrote all this to point out that the ancient Hebrews from these learned that there was a divine Malek who appeared to men and women and brought to them the Word of Life. This is found in Judges 13 — the birth of Sampson. Notice Judges 13:21, 22 how that Sampson's parents realized that the Malek was God — the Life giver and not an created angelic being.

Also notice that the Malek (Word Bearer) Elohim gave him part of his Name — Wonderful in Judges 13:18 and now read Isaiah 9:6. Who is he other than the promised Messiah who will being salvation's everlasting life to light! Now note Judges 13:15, 16 - that in Judges 13:19 Manoah did offer up to the Lord — a mere angelic being would not have allowed this but told him to offer to the Lord but Manoah did not realize at that moment that this Malek (Word / Task Bearer) was the Lord.

Look at Judges 13:20 that this Malek went upwards in the flame of the offering indicating He was no mere angelic being. Of this flame — appears again as coming down from heaven in the book of Acts (More late on this sign of the flame).

Sampson's Parents then realized it was the Word — Malek Yahweh — the one they heard about appearing who brings salvation and life to light out of darkness to mortal men and women (Gen 1:1). This was the God and they saw him — yet lived (Judges 13:22, 23 — verse 23 grammar / context indicates that it was the Malek Yahweh who accepted the offering!!!!).

Here we see that the Word of Life provides deliverance, salvation, everlasting life to humanity in time of need. He wants to clothe us with his righteousness. His name is Wonderful!

Now read John 1:1, 2, 3 - and you have the Messiah being revealed — the one who created the heavens and earth and humanity — known as the Malek — Word Bearer — El Shaddai, one who wrestled with Jacob, who confirmed oath of life to Abraham, who appear to Sampson's parents. Who appeared to Moses and went before the Children of Israel in the time of the Exodus: Who the Prophets like Isaiah spoke about in Isaiah 9:6 — who will come as a man to redeem man (humanity).

This is the one John writes about in 1 John 1:1 and is the sign of that verse pointing to the word of Life — They had seen him and handle him and now bear witness to that light!

1 John 1:1-4 (NKJV), “That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, concerning the Word of life—

“2 the life was manifested, and we have seen, and bear witness, and declare to you that eternal life which was with the Father and was manifested to us—

“3 that which we have seen and heard we declare to you, that you also may have fellowship with us; and truly our fellowship is with the Father and with His Son Jesus Christ.

“4 And these things we write to you that your joy may be full
.”

Can you grasp who he is talking about?

The signs point to Christ in the very language he uses!

There is so much more and all I can ask is to read the passages cited and do your own word studies and check out if what I stated is true. The dots (signs) point to Christ in the first few verses of 1 John 1. May the Holy Spirit awaken your heart to understand as you read your Bibles: and see the signs - Word of Life, Flame… from the Father to us through his two strong Arms.

Isaiah 53:1, "Who has believed our report? And to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed?” NKJV

Isaiah 52:10 -- The LORD hath made bare His holy arm in the eyes of all the nations; and all the ends of the earth shall see the salvation of our God. JPS

Isaiah 51:9 -- " Arise, arise, put on strength, O thou arm of the Lord, arise as in the days of old, in the ancient generations. Hast not thou struck the proud one, and wounded the dragon?" DRB

Genesis 3:15 -- " And there will be war between you and the woman and between your seed and her seed: by him will your head be crushed and by you his foot will be wounded." BBE

John 8:56, 58
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Re: A Bible Study

#15

Post by zoegirl » Fri Jan 01, 2010 3:28 pm

jlay wrote:CS, are you responding to me? If so, What are you getting your feathers ruffled for? I didn't mention the other discussion to downplay this thread or . My post was directly meant to address these opening verses of 1 john that you posted. I am more than ready to have an edifying study and participate as such. I don't know where you come to this reaction based on what I contributed.

If someone, in this case Gabriel, comes up with a question, based on the verses we are studying, are we to ignore it, because it doesn't suit your desire? Surely not.
lol, I had just glanced at this.

COnsidering that those debates went on for several pages, I'm willing to forego that particular debate again!

She did say that she liked what you said, just to not get into that volatile debate on this particular thread.
"And we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Jesus Christ"

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