harry potter

Discussions amongst Christians about life issues, walking with Christ, and general Christian topics that don't fit under any other area.
User avatar
Prodigal Son
Senior Member
Posts: 709
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2004 5:49 pm
Christian: No
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0

harry potter

#1

Post by Prodigal Son » Fri Dec 24, 2004 10:41 am

what is the real difference between harry potter and the chronicles of narnia? why is one accepted by christians and not the other? they both have magic and witches and spells...

Felgar
Esteemed Senior Member
Posts: 1143
Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2004 9:24 am
Christian: No
Location: Calgary, Canada
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0

Re: harry potter

#2

Post by Felgar » Fri Dec 24, 2004 4:13 pm

colors wrote:what is the real difference between harry potter and the chronicles of narnia? why is one accepted by christians and not the other? they both have magic and witches and spells...
Full of questions today eh? :)

Harry Potter is not written by a Christian and has does not convey a Christian message.

Chronicles of Narnia on the other hand, are written by C.S. Lewis, one of the great Christian minds of our times. On the surface you might think they are similar, but in reality they are built on two entirely different foundations. The books of Narnia are actually allegories; stories that parrallel the message of the gospel and actually teach of salvation and Jesus' sacrifice on a deeper level than just the superficial context of the story (witches, magic, etc.) Check out "The Lion The Witch, and the Wardrobe"... Note how the Lion gives his life and then comes back to life after 3 days. ;)

The real danger with HP is in the appeal to young and very impressionable minds. Even if the author is generally a 'good person' and is really just making up stories, the potential is still there for Satan to convey a very damaging message to our children by corrupting the story without the author even understanding what has been done.

Basically witchcraft and magic is tautamount to Satan worship and should NOT be triffled with... If nothing else HP perpetuates the notion that magic can be 'good' and that it can even be learned and explored by children. That is a very dangerous message.

User avatar
Prodigal Son
Senior Member
Posts: 709
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2004 5:49 pm
Christian: No
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0

#3

Post by Prodigal Son » Fri Dec 24, 2004 5:49 pm

i did read the chronicles...but many years ago.

i see the difference now. best explanation i've heard about why HP is not the same.

Anonymous
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0

#4

Post by Anonymous » Tue Jan 18, 2005 6:46 pm

Harry Potter is not written by a Christian and has does not convey a Christian message.
How is this a bad thing? Most movies don't convey a Christian message, but they are still watched and are not labeled anti-Christian propaganda.
However you choose to interpret a movie is up to you...I see a lot of philosophical truths in the Harry Potter movies and books...the forces of good versus the forces of evil, which path one must take to succeed, etc.
From the movie, here is one of the metaphoric "allegories" one may attribute to Harry Potter, if he or she so desires:

Harry Potter is not well-liked in the home in which he lives.
Jesus was described in very much the same way, as living among
those who did not accept him or his views.

Philosophically, everyone has been an "ugly duckling" at one time or
another. The prevailing attitude is that one must overcome the odds
and see the beauty within, as Harry Potter does.

Psychologically, one may wonder if Rowling took some time to
overcome the "Ugly Duckling Syndrome." She probably realized
the "magic" she had within her--the magical ability to create a
great story of overcoming odds, meeting new people, learning how
to recognize a bad crowd early in life (which makes Harry a hero),
and so on.

Please read The Philosophy of Harry Potter. You may begin to realize that Christianity is also a philosophy. With that said, you may see the philosophic interpretations of these movies and books in many different lights...don't take everything literally and you will be okay! Most philosophies are spurred from metaphoric interpretations, and there are a lot of them packed in the Potter movies and books...most of them even come out literally throughout the course of the stories.

Anonymous
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0

#5

Post by Anonymous » Tue Jan 18, 2005 8:13 pm

I don't know skoobie how many times i have to tell you that for Christians, Christianity is not just a philosophy. There are many programs out there like Harry Potter, except what separates Harry Potter from the rest is that its extremely popular and targets kids. Now I find Harry Potter to be a fun read of which it has no real value to me, however for someone much younger it could be a very different story, I'm not in the position to judge.

Anonymous
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0

#6

Post by Anonymous » Tue Jan 18, 2005 8:27 pm

I don't know skoobie how many times i have to tell you that for Christians, Christianity is not just a philosophy.
By saying "not just," you are admitting to it being at least partially philosophy?
There are many programs out there like Harry Potter, except what separates Harry Potter from the rest is that its extremely popular and targets kids
So do all the Disney flicks, but I've never heard a complaint that the Beast from "Beauty and the Beast" was an unfair representation of Satan and that Belle, an innocent, would "dance with the devil." It's the ugly duckling philosophy in a different parable.
Now I find Harry Potter to be a fun read of which it has no real value to me
Why not? It's fun. It's exciting. It's entertaining and (to some kids) a little scary, like a camping ghost story. But the good guy always wins, just like the Bible! (See 'Daniel' for details.)
however for someone much younger it could be a very different story, I'm not in the position to judge
That's where the parental role comes in. I remember when my mom used to read to me, she'd ask me questions and guide my line of thinking into the direction of philosophic truth. She read me C.S. Lewis' "The Lion, The Witch, and the Wardrobe" and made it clear what every character represented. I just think Potter is the same story told from a new-age author...what does it matter if she is Christian or not? Does that make her less valid as a philosopher?

User avatar
Kurieuo
Honored Member
Posts: 9889
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2004 6:25 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Progressive Creationist
Location: Qld, Australia
Has liked: 626 times
Been liked: 641 times

#7

Post by Kurieuo » Tue Jan 18, 2005 8:29 pm

skoobieschnax wrote:Why not? It's fun. It's exciting. It's entertaining and (to some kids) a little scary, like a camping ghost story. But the good guy always wins, just like the Bible! (See 'Daniel' for details.)
So what are you trying to say here skoobie?

Kurieuo.
"Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved." (Romans 10:13)

___________________

Image

User avatar
Prodigal Son
Senior Member
Posts: 709
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2004 5:49 pm
Christian: No
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0

#8

Post by Prodigal Son » Tue Jan 18, 2005 8:32 pm

yes, christianity is definately not a philosophy.

and, i do love harry potter! :D i feel it teaches many valuable lessons that kids can benefit from. on the non-christian part (magic being portrayed as good), if i ever have children, i think i would deal with this by reading the books together, and explaining the myths of magic and the dangers of it.

Anonymous
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0

#9

Post by Anonymous » Tue Jan 18, 2005 8:52 pm

Christianity is a huge religion, suffice to say the teachings of Christ aren't a philosophy at all but by saying "is not just" I covered myself against people who used scripture for their own agenda.

With that said I think it would be wise for you to acknowledge that for Christians, there's nothing philosophical about it.

Anonymous
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0

#10

Post by Anonymous » Tue Jan 18, 2005 9:10 pm

Philosophy(n): The sum of the ideas and convictions of an individual or group. (The Merriam-Webster Dictionary, 1997.) How does that not pertain to Christianity at all? Christianity is the sum of the ideas an convictions of a group who follows Christ and the words of Christ, and since Christ followed the sum of his individual ideas, I tend to think of him as a philosopher, per the definition above. Why is it considered insulting to refer to Christianity as a philosophy, then? I am confused. :?
and, i do love harry potter! i feel it teaches many valuable lessons that kids can benefit from. on the non-christian part (magic being portrayed as good), if i ever have children, i think i would deal with this by reading the books together, and explaining the myths of magic and the dangers of it.
That's good, colors...great, actually. That's something I feel is missing from the world is parents who are willing to spend this kind of time with their children. I benefited from a very good mother, as I said. She taught me how to interpret metaphors, and I am very grateful to her for that...if everything is taken literally, some goofy things might be believed, like talking animals or kissing a frog might turn it into a prince or things of that nature. Metaphors are important, though...they help us derive our own personal foundations without too much influence from the author(s).
skoobieschnax wrote:
Why not? It's fun. It's exciting. It's entertaining and (to some kids) a little scary, like a camping ghost story. But the good guy always wins, just like the Bible! (See 'Daniel' for details.)

So what are you trying to say here skoobie?
That the philosophies of Harry Potter, the philosophies of The Bible, the philosophies of the Quran...all of them point in the same direction of the triumph of good over evil, the rewards for good and the punishments for evil, etc. If someone reading Harry Potter to their kids wanted the kids to liken Harry Potter to the Bible, it can easily be done. Heck, it might even get more kids interested in the Bible, as Harry Potter is a much more entertaining read for a child.

Anonymous
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0

#11

Post by Anonymous » Tue Jan 18, 2005 9:55 pm

Ok I will explain once and for all why Jesus Christ is not a philosopher. Jesus is the Son of God so his Word is the Truth. For you to claim Christianity is a philosophy would be the same as me claiming science is a philosophy.
This is of course referring to the Christian, non-believers don't see it that way as some don't believe in science :P

So be careful what you call a philosophy!

Anonymous
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0

#12

Post by Anonymous » Fri Jan 21, 2005 4:28 am

First of all, science can not be considered a philosophy for every one of us can study, obsereve and experience what is happening around us. Science is the truth shown by our five senses.

But for christianity, it can't be obsereved, you need faith to have it. And by definition, Fatih is believing in something that has no logical proof. So you be careful on what you call philosophy.

Goin back to the topic, if HP is dangerous bec it teaches magic even though it teaches good values as well. Then the bible ought to be dangerous to for it to teaches magic. Every child that was raised in the christian way have a part in their life wherein they belive that God will do anything for them as long as they do good. The healings of Jesus in the bible is a sort of magic is it not. Or all the predictions, the creation of man, the gathering of animals to the ark, the ascension of jesus, the turning of water into wine, the exorcisms, the resurrection, the making of the ten commandments, the dividing if the red sea, the ten plagues, the pillar of fire, the raising of the dead, and all the rest of them. What about the practices of Born Agains, when they speak in a different tounge or the fainting thing, even the "gold dust". Are'nt all of this magic?!

User avatar
Kurieuo
Honored Member
Posts: 9889
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2004 6:25 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Progressive Creationist
Location: Qld, Australia
Has liked: 626 times
Been liked: 641 times

#13

Post by Kurieuo » Fri Jan 21, 2005 6:47 am

dro611 wrote:First of all, science can not be considered a philosophy for every one of us can study, obsereve and experience what is happening around us. Science is the truth shown by our five senses.
Science can certainly become a philosophy. For example, scientism.
dro611 wrote:But for christianity, it can't be obsereved, you need faith to have it. And by definition, Fatih is believing in something that has no logical proof. So you be careful on what you call philosophy.
I disagree with your definition of faith. Rather faith is only honestly possible where there are rational reasons for a belief. This is the type of faith often portrayed in Scripture.

Kurieuo.

PS. Why everyone's distate for philosophy? Without it, noone would know things. :?
"Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved." (Romans 10:13)

___________________

Image

User avatar
Kurieuo
Honored Member
Posts: 9889
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2004 6:25 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Progressive Creationist
Location: Qld, Australia
Has liked: 626 times
Been liked: 641 times

Re: harry potter

#14

Post by Kurieuo » Fri Jan 21, 2005 6:58 am

colors wrote:what is the real difference between harry potter and the chronicles of narnia? why is one accepted by christians and not the other? they both have magic and witches and spells...
Firstly, what do you mean by "accepted"? I'm sure there would be Christians who accept Harry Potter (HP) to the extent they see no harm in watching it, and even more who would see nothing wrong with HP given that one is aware of the issues involved. It's mainly the occult practices within it being encouraged that cause a stir, as these are something we take seriously and are warned against by God. The reason for being against the occult is that we can be deceived, and we are also depending upon a source other than God. Felgar also noted some significant differences between HP and Narnia, and on top of what he wrote, I think CS Lewis is in a higher league storywise. So it is wrong in my opinion to even draw a comparison between the two. ;)

My take is that there are always going to be non-Christian influences in the world. I believe it is important for Christian's know why they disagree with something, and to disagree with Harry Potter they should at least read or watch it first. I especially think it important for Christian parents to do so, as they should be proactive on issues that surround their children. If they allow their children read Harry Potter books and watch the movie, then Christian parents should at least do so themselves so they can then discuss and raise issues from a Christian perspective. This in effect turns a possibly harmful influence, into a useful tool for teaching and explaining Christian issues.

Kurieuo.
"Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved." (Romans 10:13)

___________________

Image

User avatar
Mastermind
Esteemed Senior Member
Posts: 1410
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2004 3:22 pm
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0

#15

Post by Mastermind » Fri Jan 21, 2005 9:22 am

dro611 wrote: Goin back to the topic, if HP is dangerous bec it teaches magic even though it teaches good values as well. Then the bible ought to be dangerous to for it to teaches magic. Every child that was raised in the christian way have a part in their life wherein they belive that God will do anything for them as long as they do good. The healings of Jesus in the bible is a sort of magic is it not. Or all the predictions, the creation of man, the gathering of animals to the ark, the ascension of jesus, the turning of water into wine, the exorcisms, the resurrection, the making of the ten commandments, the dividing if the red sea, the ten plagues, the pillar of fire, the raising of the dead, and all the rest of them. What about the practices of Born Agains, when they speak in a different tounge or the fainting thing, even the "gold dust". Are'nt all of this magic?!
I would consider them magic. However, biblical "magic"(or witchcraft as it is more commonly known) has a clear definition. Mostly, it forbids requesting the aid of any spirit other than God. This means no divination, devil worshipping, demon summoning, etc.

And people, Harry Potter is fiction. Wiccans/Pagans complained about it because it portrays a false image of witches. I found it rather amusing that both Christian conservatives would complain about it side by side with witches. :D

Post Reply