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How to deal with atheist
Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 3:29 pm
I come across them heaps on forums. And they always have some kind of arguenment that makes no sence at all, and no matter what you tell them they'll refuse to admit their wrong, how do people here deal with them?
No offence to any atheist btw
Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 3:31 pm
Just point out that one of their presuppositions when they argue with you is that God exists. It'll annoy the hell out of atheists. And it's true, which makes it all the better. If you can't beat them (because they're just that stupid), then annoy the crap out of them.
Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 9:07 pm
I try to think of how Jesus would like me to behave. I try to be patient and loving and I pray for them.
Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 10:24 pm
I think its important to learn the 'basics' of apologetics first (which can be found on this site, especially in the 'General Introduction for Non-Believers' article. Then study further whatever field you want (biology for evolution, or physics for the universe, etc...)
for atheists, if you want to discuss things with them, make sure they're willing to not be rude, to keep an open mind, and at least have some interest in what you're talking about... So if someone is saying stuff like "everything in the Bible is bullsh*t", then there is surely no point in talking to them about it at any further...
and someone has said that to me before...
Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 11:49 pm
Can i have help please?
Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2005 12:45 am
Jay_7, while I will let others reply to your post above (I am taking somewhat of a break from this forum), this has been heard and refuted countless times, this guy is obviously one of those same people that use lame "reasoning" to justify their position. They can't know God unless they know God, and they know. If the Bible is mythology, why is there so much support for it compared to other religions? Why do things happen to people that CONVINCE them that God exists? The list can go on. Christians can have doubts, just like anyone can doubt about anything.
Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2005 12:51 am
Believer wrote:Jay_7, while I will let others reply to your post above (I am taking somewhat of a break from this forum), this has been heard and refuted countless times, this guy is obviously one of those same people that use lame "reasoning" to justify their position. They can't know God unless they know God, and they know. If the Bible is mythology, why is there so much support for it compared to other religions? Why do things happen to people that CONVINCE them that God exists? The list can go on. Christians can have doubts, just like anyone can doubt about anything.
If you would like to check out how the arguements going, go to: http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php ... e=25&pp=20
Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2005 12:55 am
I have some articles on why Santa and Jesus are different, why the bible isn't myth, etc. I will try to find them for you.
http://www.leaderu.com/offices/billcrai ... ard02.html
Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2005 1:12 am
Thanks for that
if you have any more just post them here
Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2005 10:56 am
Before you Even Respond to anything this guy is saying I would suggest more Research... You are in over your Head with this Guy who is not even Challenging your faith but is making baseless claims with Logic. I would suggest reading more of the Bible with a Firm Solid Grasp. The Bible is the Best History Book ever Printed! It gives more Detail about the Jewish/Christian Culture ever Written.
A few Websites to Wrap yourself around
Luk 8:5 The sower went forth to sow his seed: and as he sowed, some fell by the way side; and it was trodden under foot, and the birds of the heaven devoured it.
Luk 8:6 And other fell on the rock; and as soon as it grew, it withered away, because it had no moisture.
Luk 8:7 And other fell amidst the thorns; and the thorns grew with it, and choked it.
Luk 8:8 And other fell into the good ground, and grew, and brought forth fruit a hundredfold. As he said these things, he cried, He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.
Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2005 5:32 pm
A couple of things....
1. You are probably not going to get the atheist to change his position by this mechanism. The debate is for the benefit of the audience, and as such, you have to show that his position is not tenable.
2. Since he asserts that atheism is not a disbelief in God, but merely not knowing whether God exists or not, he is arguing from ignorance, and all arguments following that premise can be disregarded. If he then says that he knows God does not exist, he needs to show proof.
3. While he claims that he just doubst what theists are saying, he then goes on to claim enough metaphysical knowledge to assert that theists are wrong. If he is arguing from ignorance, i.e. not sure whether God exists or not, he cannot claim to have enough metaphysical knowledge to know God does not exist.
4. He also needs to establish a basis for the grounds on which he can claim to know anything about the metaphysics of God, since he ismaking a metaphysical claim about the existence of God.
5. Furthermore, he needs to show, from an atheist perspective, how he can appeal to rationality and logic without first establishing where the laws of logic came from.
Without him showing all of the above, all of which are logically prior to his assertions about the existence of God, he continues to argue from ignorance, and his arguments can be seen as nonsensical.
I can go through those questions and statements that he posed, but it won't serve much purpose until he can establish a logical foundation from which to attack Christianity.
Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2005 6:28 pm
Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2005 8:23 pm
What is there in the bible that represents evidence for the existence of a god?
First The Bible will be utter foolishness to man, there simply isn't a way that this man will find anything in the Bible without first coming to a realization that God exists and seek him out within the Bible. If he seeks God, than God will reveal himself by his words.
You have sown the seed of the Gospel with these people, and if the Holy Spirit doesn't make the truth of it known to them, than there is nothing you can do except move on and hope some are convinced by that Spirit.
9But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law <whoops I'm guilty there>; for they are unprofitable and vain. 10A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject; 11Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.
17Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
14That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ; 3In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge. 4And this I say, lest any man should beguile you with enticing words.
1 Timothy 4
1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2Speaking lies in hypocrisy;
9Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be established with grace; not with meats, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein.
6Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.
Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2005 10:26 pm
Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2005 12:45 am
An atheist pointed this out to me:
Well Christains say that Christ did not fobid the use of meat. This is demostrated by G.J.Ousley in him "Gospel of The Holy Twelve" as incorect. He says that the mistranslations of the original Bible are prevalent. The original words were tampered with by interested people. He says, "What the 'correctors' did was to cut out the Gospels with minute care the teachings of our Lord-teaching which they did not propose to follow, namely those against eating flesh, taking strong drink and everything that might serve as argument against flesh-eating.They have deleted also the great teashing of reincarnation, which they could not follow.
(It is said that this is a direct translation from the Aramaic of pure original words of Jesus, and that these ancient and complete manuscripts are in the Vatican Library).
- But they answered him, "Whither should we go, Master, for with you are the words of eternal Life?"
"Tell us, what are the sins we must shun, that we may never more see disease?"
Jesus answered,"Be it so according to your faith," and he sad down among them saying, "It was said to them of old time, 'Honour thy Heavenly Father and thy Earthly Mother, and do their commandments, that thy day may be long upon the earth.' And next afternoon was given this commandment : 'Thou shalt not kill! For life is given to all by God, and what God has given, let no man take away. For I tell you truly, from the Mother proceeds all that lives upon the earth; therefore, he who kills, kills his brother. And from him will the earthly mother turn away, and will pluck from him her quickening breasts. And he will be shunned by her angels and Satan will have his dwelling in his body. And the flesh of slain beasts in his body will become his own tomb. For I tell you truly, he who kills, kills himself, and who eats the flesh of slain beasts eats of the body of death. And their death will become his death. For the wages of sin is death!
"Kill not, neither eat the flesh of your innocent prey lest you become the slaves of Satan. For that is the true path of suffering, and it leads unto death. But do the will of God and His angels may serve you on the way of life. Obey, therefore, the words of God, 'Bhold I have given you every herb bearing the seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in which is the fruit of a tree yielding see, to you it shall be for meat. And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to everything that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is breath of life, I give every green herb for meat. Also the milk of everything that moveth and that liveth upon earth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given unto them, so I give their milk unto you. But flesh and the blood quickens, it shall ye not eat!"
And Jesus continued, "God commanded your forefathers: 'Thou shalt not kill!' But their heart was hardened and they killed. Then Moses desired that at least they should not kill men, and he suffered them to kill beasts. And then the heard of your forefathers was hardened yet more and they killed men and beasts alike. But I say to you, kill neither men, not beasts, not yet the food which goes in your mouth. For if you eat living food, the same will quicken you, but if you kill your food, the dead food will kill you also. For life comes only from life and from death comes always death.
"For everything which kills your food kills your bodies also. And everything which kills your bodies, kills your soul also. And your bodies become what your foods are, even as your spirits likewise, become what your thoughts are."
Make a google search on him and you'll find he has a book out with all the "un-corrected" scriptures.
Whats this about? I don't really see any proof in this or the meaning.