Help me find my mustard seed

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Silvertusk
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Help me find my mustard seed

#1

Post by Silvertusk » Fri Oct 07, 2005 1:12 am

Hi everyone.

Something happened to me over the last couple of days that has left me in a little bit of a turmoil. I am to be baptised at the end of this month and I had my first preparation session wih my minister last night.

It was then that I realised how weak my faith really was. He asked me whether I understood the Cross and its meaning personally to me. I understand it very well - all the theology behind it. But what I realised was that I didn't feel it.

I realised that Jesus sacrificed himself for me as if I was the only person on this planet - but I do not feel that sacrifice - I do not feel saved.

Plus the fact that I heard on the news the other day that they have discovered a Gorilla using a walking stick to cross a river shaked my faith. I will explain - I thought I had reconciled evolution with the bible - mainly by reading this website - but when I hear stories of advancing intelligence in primates - It seems to me that given time and enough "Chances" even gorilla's would be as advance as us - maybe we are not all that special - just lucky in the evolutionary scheme of things. Which of course leaves God out of the picture.

It is things like this that really shake my beliefs. If monkeys start lighting fires - then it is all over for me and God.

So the fact that my faith is not very strong in the first place and the fact that I do not feel saved, or at least any different makes me ask the question - Should I even be baptised?

I guess all I am asking people here is could you help me find my mustard seed please.....

Silvertusk

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#2

Post by August » Fri Oct 07, 2005 12:26 pm

Hi Silvertusk,

I have a couple of comments, and please don't take them the wrong way.

Firstly, doubting is natural, and it does not matter who or what you are, you will have doubts sometimes. I have not spoken to anyone who do not sometimes have doubts. There were people that saw Jesus perform miracles, in real life, yet they still doubted. What is important is for you to have a core belief that will always pull you away from the doubt. As for feeling saved, how do you expect to feel when you feel saved? It is not some supernatural euphoria, just an unshaking knowledge that your fate is in God's hands for the better. You arrive at that point by doing as He tells you, to have true faith, including belief, trust, love and obedience. It is also a two-party contract, and you have show that you have accepted the grace that God freely offers, by telling God that, praying, honoring and glorifying God. It is really hard when you are a new Christian, but give it some time, continue to read, pray and praise.

It seems from your post that you feel that the argument for God is based on the reconciliation of the Biblical revelation, and the Theory of Evolution. I probably do not know the whole story, but if your belief in God is based on that, and affected your decision to get baptised, then you have more important questions to ask yourself. God has revealed Himself in 2 ways, through His creation and through His word. We can always attempt to rationalize for His existence by trying to describe His creation in ways that we as humans interpret, but then we are basically putting God in the dock as the accused, and saying to Him that His revelation is not good enough, there is not enough evidence for us to believe. It is a dangerous argument, because then the question arises as to when will we ever see enough evidence, there will always just be something else that cause us to accuse God. There are numerous evidences for the existence of God, both positive and through the impossibility of the contrary, but will it ever be enough to convince everyone?

No-one here can tell you whether you should be baptised or not, because we don't really know your heart. Baptism is a symbol of us being part of a covenant with God, symbolic of that we will buried and resurrected as Jesus was, the symbol of a new life. Only you can know whether that applies to you. These articles may help you too.

http://www.bibchr.com/hcikg.html
http://www.bibchr.com/enc.html

I don't know if any of this helps you, let us know and we will continue to attempt to help you.
Acts 17:24-25 (NIV)
"The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by hands. [25] And he is not served by human hands, as if he needed anything, because he himself gives all men life and breath and everything else."

//www.omnipotentgrace.org
//christianskepticism.blogspot.com

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#3

Post by Silvertusk » Wed Oct 26, 2005 3:30 pm

August wrote:Hi Silvertusk,

I have a couple of comments, and please don't take them the wrong way.

Firstly, doubting is natural, and it does not matter who or what you are, you will have doubts sometimes. I have not spoken to anyone who do not sometimes have doubts. There were people that saw Jesus perform miracles, in real life, yet they still doubted. What is important is for you to have a core belief that will always pull you away from the doubt. As for feeling saved, how do you expect to feel when you feel saved? It is not some supernatural euphoria, just an unshaking knowledge that your fate is in God's hands for the better. You arrive at that point by doing as He tells you, to have true faith, including belief, trust, love and obedience. It is also a two-party contract, and you have show that you have accepted the grace that God freely offers, by telling God that, praying, honoring and glorifying God. It is really hard when you are a new Christian, but give it some time, continue to read, pray and praise.

It seems from your post that you feel that the argument for God is based on the reconciliation of the Biblical revelation, and the Theory of Evolution. I probably do not know the whole story, but if your belief in God is based on that, and affected your decision to get baptised, then you have more important questions to ask yourself. God has revealed Himself in 2 ways, through His creation and through His word. We can always attempt to rationalize for His existence by trying to describe His creation in ways that we as humans interpret, but then we are basically putting God in the dock as the accused, and saying to Him that His revelation is not good enough, there is not enough evidence for us to believe. It is a dangerous argument, because then the question arises as to when will we ever see enough evidence, there will always just be something else that cause us to accuse God. There are numerous evidences for the existence of God, both positive and through the impossibility of the contrary, but will it ever be enough to convince everyone?

No-one here can tell you whether you should be baptised or not, because we don't really know your heart. Baptism is a symbol of us being part of a covenant with God, symbolic of that we will buried and resurrected as Jesus was, the symbol of a new life. Only you can know whether that applies to you. These articles may help you too.

http://www.bibchr.com/hcikg.html
http://www.bibchr.com/enc.html

I don't know if any of this helps you, let us know and we will continue to attempt to help you.
Thankyou August.

It is certainly interesting that a person with the same name as the month of my birth answered my plea.

My faith is not as strong as I like - and you are right it is a lot about trust. However we are seperated from the incarnation by 2000 years and sometimes it is hard to believe when we are not witness to the miracles that happened so long ago. I am currently reading the Left Behind Series books, and even thought the subject matter is the end of the world, I find myself wishing this was happening now. At least then I could be certain.

I guess I take comfort in what Jesus said to Thomas, that he believed because he could see, Blessed are those that believe and do not see. I think he was talking to us here today. We do not see and yet are expected to believe. There is a lot of trust there and certainly for me a great deal of hope.

God bless us all - because without him there truely is nothing.

Silvertusk.

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RE:

#4

Post by Ark~Magic » Mon Oct 31, 2005 9:55 pm

Silvertusk, the thing about the monkies using tools isn't anything to be afraid about. They have been doing this forever, it's just this is one of the few times they have been recorded doing this. Our creative master produced all of the animals first before mankind, so it's likely that the apes that roam this earth were just a 'prototype' for the creature known as man that he would later create. But there are still many things that humans have that animals don't really have, like prayer, guilt, worship, art, etc. They always claim animals will have artistic abilities or the like, but it's always an anthropomorphization - making it look human when it isn't.

Check out this article:
http://doesgodexist.org/MayJun05/Hobbit ... OfMan.html
"And I shall slay them who partake of futurism, for in the preterist light there will be everlasting salvation, truth, and peace." ~ Faust

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#5

Post by Preach » Tue Nov 01, 2005 12:07 am

Even if an ape were to be observed lighting fires; to automaticly assume that that means there is no God would be commiting a logical fallacy. It would only prove that apes are smarter than we once thought. Intelligence is not the defining factor as to what makes us "special" in God's eyes.

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Re: Help me find my mustard seed

#6

Post by Jbuza » Tue Nov 01, 2005 7:50 am

Silvertusk wrote:Hi everyone.

Something happened to me over the last couple of days that has left me in a little bit of a turmoil. I am to be baptised at the end of this month and I had my first preparation session wih my minister last night.

It was then that I realised how weak my faith really was. He asked me whether I understood the Cross and its meaning personally to me. I understand it very well - all the theology behind it. But what I realised was that I didn't feel it.

I realised that Jesus sacrificed himself for me as if I was the only person on this planet - but I do not feel that sacrifice - I do not feel saved.

Plus the fact that I heard on the news the other day that they have discovered a Gorilla using a walking stick to cross a river shaked my faith. I will explain - I thought I had reconciled evolution with the bible - mainly by reading this website - but when I hear stories of advancing intelligence in primates - It seems to me that given time and enough "Chances" even gorilla's would be as advance as us - maybe we are not all that special - just lucky in the evolutionary scheme of things. Which of course leaves God out of the picture.

It is things like this that really shake my beliefs. If monkeys start lighting fires - then it is all over for me and God.

So the fact that my faith is not very strong in the first place and the fact that I do not feel saved, or at least any different makes me ask the question - Should I even be baptised?

I guess all I am asking people here is could you help me find my mustard seed please.....

Silvertusk
Wow. Faith isn't easy is it. I would say trust God and get baptized. If you beleive that Jesus was crucified for your sins and God raised him from the dead, and you have confessed that before men, than reguardless of what the father of lies tries to whisper in your ear to shake your faith, you are a Christian. Get baptized! Perhaps God will show you the mustard seed because of your obedience in this.

I get what your saying about the gorilla with the stick. Consider this How did Satan shake the beleifs of the very first people to ever live? He entered an animal and told lies. It is not beyond the realm of possibilities that the gorilla was a lie from Satan. God said there would be a falling away, and that people would become deluded beleiving a lie. He said they would worship the creation rather than the creator.

Don't be suprised, Satan wlaketh about like a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour.

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#7

Post by j316 » Sun Nov 06, 2005 12:07 pm

Seek and you will find, knock and the door will be opened. Go get baptised and join the rest of us seekers. But don't expect instant or complete knowledge, that comes at the end of the book you have only started.

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#8

Post by Silvertusk » Tue Nov 22, 2005 1:21 pm

Dear All

Well as you can see from another post in this thread - I took the plunge literally and I certainly feel a lot better for it. Maybe there is a litttle mustard seed in me after all.

God Bless

Silvertusk.

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#9

Post by Byblos » Tue Nov 22, 2005 2:31 pm

Silvertusk wrote:Dear All

Well as you can see from another post in this thread - I took the plunge literally and I certainly feel a lot better for it. Maybe there is a litttle mustard seed in me after all.

God Bless

Silvertusk.

CONGRATULATIONS!

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#10

Post by Cook » Wed Nov 23, 2005 8:34 pm

I'm new to the message board but a few things came to mind that I thought I should say. As j316 posted above, 'seek and you will find.' A lot of people worry over uncertainties they have about not having arrived at a strong enough grasp of what God and religion are all about, you're not alone with that. And it's not fun to worry or have doubts. But you can't let it get you down, it's alright to be at the 'seeking' stage of trying to get a firmer handle on faith and its implications. No less than the light of the world himself said you have to seek. His mustard seed analogy is always a good one. Even the small kernel of new faith is destined to become an impressive tree, just need to let it grow day by day.

Even more than that, also keep in mind that while you are taking steps to strengthen faith, God is in partnership with you, and 'knows all you need before you ask'. Don't hesitate to take your concerns directly to him; become like a child in attitude of wholehearted trustfulness that he's listening and he's on your side to help.

As Jesus said at another time, what earthly father, when his son asks for bread, would hand over a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, pass him a snake? Even lowly parents on this world know how to provide for the needs of their children, so "how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?"

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#11

Post by IRQ Conflict » Thu Nov 24, 2005 2:25 am

God bless you Silvertusk.

Jud 1:20 But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,
Jud 1:21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.
Jud 1:22 And of some, have compassion, making a difference:
Jud 1:23 And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.
Jud 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,
Jud 1:25 To the only wise God our Savior, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

I have on many occasion had my faith shaken. But as I grew in the knowladge of the Lord I have learned to research and study things before jumping to conclusions.

Satan wants to do everything he can to take our eye off the Lord and hit us with 'fiery darts'. We are to 'put on the whole armour of God'.

The moment we take and focus our efforts on the lies of this world those darts penetrate us and we feel the fear of our assumtions.

Pro 1:15 My son, walk not thou in the way with them; refrain thy foot from their path:
Last edited by IRQ Conflict on Sat Nov 26, 2005 3:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

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#12

Post by Silvertusk » Fri Nov 25, 2005 7:31 am

The bible is a wonderful book of that there is no doubt. It is when my minister went over the parable of the man buying the field to keep the treasure that I started crying. The theme was that we are all on a journey searching for that treasure and some of us are taking that next step in finding it. I have been searching for so long now and the fact that I had taken that next step I guess is what got to me - Maybe I am closer than I ever was before.

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#13

Post by Mystical » Fri Nov 25, 2005 10:47 pm

Silvertusk:

There are genius people, genius parrots, genius dogs, and even genius apes. Even if this ape wasn't a genius, I doubt that he/she was the first of his/her kind to light a fire. Also, I don't think that apes are getting smarter, but that people are finally realizing and accepting how smart they are.

Their intelligence is a demonstration of God's awesome power, not a proof of his non-existence.

On baptism, I think that all you need is a belief in God, an acceptance of him, and a desire to follow him.

On being saved, I think that it is accompanied by joy, by a change in character, and by a demonstration of works which follow a desire to do his will. Have you felt/experienced any of this?

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