Dr. Michael Heiser

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JButler
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Re: Dr. Michael Heiser

#31

Post by JButler » Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:46 pm

abelcainsbrother wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 7:55 pm
I believe >>>>>>>.Revelation 22:18-19.So I have problems trusting anybody who relies on modern biblical scholorship for truth. I also think that when it comes to the OT the Christian church has allowed itself to be influenced by religious jews who reject Jesus as their Messiah.
Revelation 22 is referring to the book of Revelation, not the entire Christian selected collection we call the Bible. Revelation was written by itself to the unveiling or the revealing of Jesus Christ. Its logical that John would add that admonition to the end of Revelation.

The KJV was not translated into English but more a refined product of existing Bibles. IIRC the KJV used about 80% of Tyndale's work. Side note, sometimes Wycliffe surprises me with some of his translated passages, considering it was during the 1300's.
If the truth hurts, maybe it should.

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Re: Dr. Michael Heiser

#32

Post by Philip » Thu Apr 12, 2018 5:17 am

I just found out ... JButler must be older than ME! :cheers: So, what is the birth order around here? Byblos, JB, B.W. and THEN me? :mrgreen:

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Re: Dr. Michael Heiser

#33

Post by JButler » Thu Apr 12, 2018 7:56 am

Philip wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 5:17 am
I just found out ... JButler must be older than ME! :cheers: So, what is the birth order around here? Byblos, JB, B.W. and THEN me? :mrgreen:
Now how did you figure that out? Are you working the carnie circuit again, guessing weights and stuff?? :ebiggrin:

Figured B.W. and I are real close. But the rest of you seemed much older, looking more like white/gray ZZ Top.
If the truth hurts, maybe it should.

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Re: Dr. Michael Heiser

#34

Post by Philip » Thu Apr 12, 2018 8:17 am

JB: Now how did you figure that out?
I looked at your very first post! :P

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Re: Dr. Michael Heiser

#35

Post by JButler » Thu Apr 12, 2018 8:55 am

Philip wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 8:17 am
JB: Now how did you figure that out?
I looked at your very first post! :P
You earned your promotion....Detective Philip! :toppoints:
If the truth hurts, maybe it should.

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Re: Dr. Michael Heiser

#36

Post by abelcainsbrother » Sat Apr 14, 2018 3:48 pm

JButler wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:46 pm
abelcainsbrother wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 7:55 pm
I believe >>>>>>>.Revelation 22:18-19.So I have problems trusting anybody who relies on modern biblical scholorship for truth. I also think that when it comes to the OT the Christian church has allowed itself to be influenced by religious jews who reject Jesus as their Messiah.
Revelation 22 is referring to the book of Revelation, not the entire Christian selected collection we call the Bible. Revelation was written by itself to the unveiling or the revealing of Jesus Christ. Its logical that John would add that admonition to the end of Revelation.

The KJV was not translated into English but more a refined product of existing Bibles. IIRC the KJV used about 80% of Tyndale's work. Side note, sometimes Wycliffe surprises me with some of his translated passages, considering it was during the 1300's.

I was just using Revelation 22 to back up my point.Also I think you are technically correct about the KJV bible but I don't want to get side tracked from my original point. You see the KJV bible is an old earth translation in both the old and new testaments,and so why are all new translations young earth translations?

I see no problem at all trying to translate a more readable bible from KJV style english,but how come all of them are now young earth translations?This is not meant to be a KJV only argument. Why can't there be new translations that retain an old earth translation like the KJV that are more easily read?There is a reason why they have removed phrases that reveal an old earth,have changed the meaning of hebrew words and translated the english to be a young earth translation with all of the new translations I've read.

I believe young earth creationists somehow got control of bible scholorship and these new translations are young earth translations. Also I do believe there is more bias today than back when Tyndale,etc were translating the bible into english.I don't buy it that modern bible scholors are more knowledgable when it comes to Hebrew,Aramaic and Greek and have better understanding today.
Hebrews 12:2-3 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,despising the shame,and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

2nd Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,lest the light of this glorious gospel of Christ,who is the image of God,should shine unto them.

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Re: Dr. Michael Heiser

#37

Post by JButler » Sat Apr 14, 2018 9:57 pm

I was just using Revelation 22 to back up my point.Also I think you are technically correct about the KJV bible but I don't want to get side tracked from my original point. You see the KJV bible is an old earth translation in both the old and new testaments,and so why are all new translations young earth translations?

I see no problem at all trying to translate a more readable bible from KJV style english,but how come all of them are now young earth translations?This is not meant to be a KJV only argument. Why can't there be new translations that retain an old earth translation like the KJV that are more easily read?There is a reason why they have removed phrases that reveal an old earth,have changed the meaning of hebrew words and translated the english to be a young earth translation with all of the new translations I've read.

I believe young earth creationists somehow got control of bible scholorship and these new translations are young earth translations. Also I do believe there is more bias today than back when Tyndale,etc were translating the bible into english.I don't buy it that modern bible scholors are more knowledgable when it comes to Hebrew,Aramaic and Greek and have better understanding today.
Okay understand. I'm not sure about YEC influence on newer translation. Actually I've not heard that before. I use BibleGateway.com almost exclusively for on-line Bible work and use/compare a lot of their English translations. Haven't noticed a YEC slant but then I've not done research to compare them in this topic. I'm genuinely curious about your assertions, do you have some examples to show what you mean?
If the truth hurts, maybe it should.

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Re: Dr. Michael Heiser

#38

Post by abelcainsbrother » Sun Apr 15, 2018 7:47 pm

JButler wrote:
Sat Apr 14, 2018 9:57 pm
I was just using Revelation 22 to back up my point.Also I think you are technically correct about the KJV bible but I don't want to get side tracked from my original point. You see the KJV bible is an old earth translation in both the old and new testaments,and so why are all new translations young earth translations?

I see no problem at all trying to translate a more readable bible from KJV style english,but how come all of them are now young earth translations?This is not meant to be a KJV only argument. Why can't there be new translations that retain an old earth translation like the KJV that are more easily read?There is a reason why they have removed phrases that reveal an old earth,have changed the meaning of hebrew words and translated the english to be a young earth translation with all of the new translations I've read.

I believe young earth creationists somehow got control of bible scholorship and these new translations are young earth translations. Also I do believe there is more bias today than back when Tyndale,etc were translating the bible into english.I don't buy it that modern bible scholors are more knowledgable when it comes to Hebrew,Aramaic and Greek and have better understanding today.
Okay understand. I'm not sure about YEC influence on newer translation. Actually I've not heard that before. I use BibleGateway.com almost exclusively for on-line Bible work and use/compare a lot of their English translations. Haven't noticed a YEC slant but then I've not done research to compare them in this topic. I'm genuinely curious about your assertions, do you have some examples to show what you mean?

Wow! It would take me time to give you every example as there are examples in both the OT and NT.I'd have to do a kindof bible study to show all of the examples.

But one example right off the top of my head is Genesis 2:4 In the KJV it says "These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created,in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens." You can click on the verse above for the NASB and the phrase "These are the generations" is not there,it has been removed to hide that fact that there were generations of the heavens and earth when they were created which means the earth is old.

And I don't understand why this phrase for an old earth was removed because we see the same phrase used in Genesis 5:1 for the generations of Adam and then in Genesis 10:1 we see generations of Noah. Yet when it comes to creation and Genesis 2:4 they just do not want us to know there was an old earth because there were generations of it when it was created.

This was done so that young earth creationists can just declare the earth is young because they say so.
Hebrews 12:2-3 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,despising the shame,and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

2nd Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,lest the light of this glorious gospel of Christ,who is the image of God,should shine unto them.

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Re: Dr. Michael Heiser

#39

Post by B. W. » Fri Apr 20, 2018 8:21 am

abelcainsbrother wrote:
Sun Apr 15, 2018 7:47 pm
JButler wrote:
Sat Apr 14, 2018 9:57 pm
I was just using Revelation 22 to back up my point.Also I think you are technically correct about the KJV bible but I don't want to get side tracked from my original point. You see the KJV bible is an old earth translation in both the old and new testaments,and so why are all new translations young earth translations?

I see no problem at all trying to translate a more readable bible from KJV style english,but how come all of them are now young earth translations?This is not meant to be a KJV only argument. Why can't there be new translations that retain an old earth translation like the KJV that are more easily read?There is a reason why they have removed phrases that reveal an old earth,have changed the meaning of hebrew words and translated the english to be a young earth translation with all of the new translations I've read.

I believe young earth creationists somehow got control of bible scholorship and these new translations are young earth translations. Also I do believe there is more bias today than back when Tyndale,etc were translating the bible into english.I don't buy it that modern bible scholors are more knowledgable when it comes to Hebrew,Aramaic and Greek and have better understanding today.
Okay understand. I'm not sure about YEC influence on newer translation. Actually I've not heard that before. I use BibleGateway.com almost exclusively for on-line Bible work and use/compare a lot of their English translations. Haven't noticed a YEC slant but then I've not done research to compare them in this topic. I'm genuinely curious about your assertions, do you have some examples to show what you mean?

Wow! It would take me time to give you every example as there are examples in both the OT and NT.I'd have to do a kindof bible study to show all of the examples.

But one example right off the top of my head is Genesis 2:4 In the KJV it says "These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created,in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens." You can click on the verse above for the NASB and the phrase "These are the generations" is not there,it has been removed to hide that fact that there were generations of the heavens and earth when they were created which means the earth is old.

And I don't understand why this phrase for an old earth was removed because we see the same phrase used in Genesis 5:1 for the generations of Adam and then in Genesis 10:1 we see generations of Noah. Yet when it comes to creation and Genesis 2:4 they just do not want us to know there was an old earth because there were generations of it when it was created.

This was done so that young earth creationists can just declare the earth is young because they say so.
That is an important point - the word translated as 'history, account, or generations' in Gen 2:4 indeed refers to an exapance of time...

AMG's The Complete Word Study Dictionary says this about his this word:

"ôlēḏôṯ: A feminine noun meaning a generation. This key Hebrew word carries with it the notion of everything entailed in a person's life and that of his or her progeny (Gen 5:1; Gen 6:9). In the plural, it is used to denote the chronological procession of history as humans shape it. It refers to the successive generations in one family (Gen 10:32); or a broader division by lineage (Num 1:20 ff.). In Gen 2:4, the word accounts for the history of the created world."

It is used to denote generations as in years - not a 24 hour day.

My father's day lasted 84 years before he passed away. As you can see, even in English we can use the word Day the same manner it was used in ancient Hebrew.

My dad's generation is known as the "Greatest Generation" WW2 era - not many of these folks are left these days but that generation will pass... Some of the oldest are in their 100's now and the youngest in the late 80's...
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Science is man's invention - creation is God's
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Re: Dr. Michael Heiser

#40

Post by riderontheclouds » Sat Apr 21, 2018 1:42 am

My thoughts on Heiser:

I don't buy his stuff regarding the Nachash, it's curse far too much fits an actual snake.

I agree with him on Deut 32:8 and Psalm 82, but disagree with him on Genesis 6. I explain my views here:

https://riderontheclouds.wordpress.com/ ... ally-were/

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