The US NEVER Went To The Moon

Discussions on Christian eschatology including different views pertaining to Jesus' second coming, rapture and tribulation, the millennium, and so forth.
User avatar
RickD
Make me a Sammich Member
Posts: 21974
Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:59 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Day-Age
Location: Kitchen
Has liked: 209 times
Been liked: 1139 times

Re: The US NEVER Went To The Moon

#211

Post by RickD » Fri Apr 16, 2021 3:51 am

Stu wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 3:41 am
RickD wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 3:21 am
Stu,

In Jesus’ own words, he claims to be bread:

John 6:51
51 I am the living bread that came down out of heaven; if anyone eats from this bread, he will live forever; and the bread which I will give for the life of the world also is My flesh.”

Since Jesus said it in the Bible, is this a true representation of Jesus’ appearance?
Image
I see you ignored the NASA FOOTAGE in favour of silly games.

If you have no answer for why they faked a photo of the earth in their craft or why they were no where near the moon according to the footage, that is fine but ignoring some of the most damning evidence in the history of NASA's existence speaks volumes about you.
I suspect that no one including DB won't respond because it's clear for all to see what the truth is according to NASA's own footage.
Oh, so you can’t answer my question? Or do you deny Jesus’ own words? Either Jesus is bread like he said, or the Bible and Jesus’ own words are wrong.

Why won’t you answer?
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.


The Flat Earth Society has members all around the globe.



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

DBowling
Prestigious Senior Member
Posts: 1861
Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2015 8:23 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Day-Age
Has liked: 32 times
Been liked: 203 times

Re: The US NEVER Went To The Moon

#212

Post by DBowling » Fri Apr 16, 2021 4:26 am

Stu wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 3:43 am
DBowling wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 3:39 am
Stu wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 12:39 am
At least I have the Bible on my side :D
That's the really big issue here.
Scripture is NOT on your side.

The real question is
"Are you on Scripture's side?"
And distorting what Scripture says to support a known lie demonstrates that flat earthers are most definitely not on Scripture's side.

Scripture is accurate and authoritative.
Man's interpretation of Scripture is not necessarily accurate or authoritative.
And a (mis)interpretation of Scripture that is built upon a known lie is "on the side of" the Father of Lies.
So are you saying Michael Heiser is wrong in saying that the Bible says the earth is flat with a dome over it. And the ancient Hebrews were wrong as well?
There are areas where I agree with Heiser and there are areas where I disagree with Heiser. While I greatly admire Heiser, Heiser's interpretations are not Holy Spirit inspired (and I don't think he would claim they are). I'm not even sure Heiser claims the Bible teaches a flat earth anyway. But whether he does or not, I would disagree with anyone who says that Scripture teaches that the earth is flat.
Because it doesn't.

Did the Hebrews and the rest of the ANE world believe that the earth was flat with a dome over it?
Yes they did.
But again, everything the Hebrews or the ANE world believed is not Holy Spirit inspired.

All Heiser's interpretations are not Holy Spirit inspired.
The cosmological beliefs of the Hebrews and the ANE world were not Holy Spirit inspired.
All Scripture IS inspired by the Holy Spirit.

User avatar
Stu
Esteemed Senior Member
Posts: 1305
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2011 7:32 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Undecided
Has liked: 15 times
Been liked: 42 times

Re: The US NEVER Went To The Moon

#213

Post by Stu » Fri Apr 16, 2021 4:36 am

DBowling wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 4:26 am
Stu wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 3:43 am
DBowling wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 3:39 am
Stu wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 12:39 am
At least I have the Bible on my side :D
That's the really big issue here.
Scripture is NOT on your side.

The real question is
"Are you on Scripture's side?"
And distorting what Scripture says to support a known lie demonstrates that flat earthers are most definitely not on Scripture's side.

Scripture is accurate and authoritative.
Man's interpretation of Scripture is not necessarily accurate or authoritative.
And a (mis)interpretation of Scripture that is built upon a known lie is "on the side of" the Father of Lies.
So are you saying Michael Heiser is wrong in saying that the Bible says the earth is flat with a dome over it. And the ancient Hebrews were wrong as well?
There are areas where I agree with Heiser and there are areas where I disagree with Heiser. While I greatly admire Heiser, Heiser's interpretations are not Holy Spirit inspired (and I don't think he would claim they are). I'm not even sure Heiser claims the Bible teaches a flat earth anyway. But whether he does or not, I would disagree with anyone who says that Scripture teaches that the earth is flat.
Because it doesn't.

Did the Hebrews and the rest of the ANE world believe that the earth was flat with a dome over it?
Yes they did.
But again, everything the Hebrews or the ANE world believed is not Holy Spirit inspired.

All Heiser's interpretations are not Holy Spirit inspired.
The cosmological beliefs of the Hebrews and the ANE world were not Holy Spirit inspired.
All Scripture IS inspired by the Holy Spirit.
Ah, so only you know the truth. The Hebrews and everyone else were just dumb farmers.

The Bible says that the sun, moon and stars were put IN the firmament. There's no getting around that. Firmament in Hebrew is raqiya which is solid, firm.

How do you explain the sun moon and stars being IN the firmament? You can't in a heliocentric model, you can in a flat earth model.
Only when the blood runs and the shackles restrain, will the sheep then awake. When all is lost.

DBowling
Prestigious Senior Member
Posts: 1861
Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2015 8:23 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Day-Age
Has liked: 32 times
Been liked: 203 times

Re: The US NEVER Went To The Moon

#214

Post by DBowling » Fri Apr 16, 2021 5:03 am

Stu wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 4:36 am
DBowling wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 4:26 am
Stu wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 3:43 am
DBowling wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 3:39 am
Stu wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 12:39 am
At least I have the Bible on my side :D
That's the really big issue here.
Scripture is NOT on your side.

The real question is
"Are you on Scripture's side?"
And distorting what Scripture says to support a known lie demonstrates that flat earthers are most definitely not on Scripture's side.

Scripture is accurate and authoritative.
Man's interpretation of Scripture is not necessarily accurate or authoritative.
And a (mis)interpretation of Scripture that is built upon a known lie is "on the side of" the Father of Lies.
So are you saying Michael Heiser is wrong in saying that the Bible says the earth is flat with a dome over it. And the ancient Hebrews were wrong as well?
There are areas where I agree with Heiser and there are areas where I disagree with Heiser. While I greatly admire Heiser, Heiser's interpretations are not Holy Spirit inspired (and I don't think he would claim they are). I'm not even sure Heiser claims the Bible teaches a flat earth anyway. But whether he does or not, I would disagree with anyone who says that Scripture teaches that the earth is flat.
Because it doesn't.

Did the Hebrews and the rest of the ANE world believe that the earth was flat with a dome over it?
Yes they did.
But again, everything the Hebrews or the ANE world believed is not Holy Spirit inspired.

All Heiser's interpretations are not Holy Spirit inspired.
The cosmological beliefs of the Hebrews and the ANE world were not Holy Spirit inspired.
All Scripture IS inspired by the Holy Spirit.
Ah, so only you know the truth. The Hebrews and everyone else were just dumb farmers.
I never said that...
God knows truth.
And God has communicated that truth to us through Special Revelation (Scripture) and Natural Revelation (Science).

The ANE world did not know what we know today about cosmology because they didn't have the same tools available that we do today.
The Bible says that the sun, moon and stars were put IN the firmament. There's no getting around that. Firmament in Hebrew is raqiya which is solid, firm.
Yet again, you are simply incorrect.
The firmament is the sky.

ANE cosmology (which is not Holy Spirit inspired) may have believed that the firmament/sky is solid.
But Scripture doesn't speak to whether the sky/firmament is solid or not, it states accurately that from the perspective of people on the surface of the earth, the lights from the sun, moon, and stars are in the sky.
And I can personally verify that I see the light from the sun, moon, and stars "in the sky" every day.

The Holy Spirit inspired Scriptural description of lights in the sky is accurate.
The ANE belief that the firmament/sky is solid is not Holy Spirit inspired.
Holy Spirit inspired Scripture does not teach that the sky/firmament is solid.

User avatar
Stu
Esteemed Senior Member
Posts: 1305
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2011 7:32 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Undecided
Has liked: 15 times
Been liked: 42 times

Re: The US NEVER Went To The Moon

#215

Post by Stu » Fri Apr 16, 2021 5:41 am

DBowling wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 5:03 am
Stu wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 4:36 am
DBowling wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 4:26 am
Stu wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 3:43 am
DBowling wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 3:39 am

That's the really big issue here.
Scripture is NOT on your side.

The real question is
"Are you on Scripture's side?"
And distorting what Scripture says to support a known lie demonstrates that flat earthers are most definitely not on Scripture's side.

Scripture is accurate and authoritative.
Man's interpretation of Scripture is not necessarily accurate or authoritative.
And a (mis)interpretation of Scripture that is built upon a known lie is "on the side of" the Father of Lies.
So are you saying Michael Heiser is wrong in saying that the Bible says the earth is flat with a dome over it. And the ancient Hebrews were wrong as well?
There are areas where I agree with Heiser and there are areas where I disagree with Heiser. While I greatly admire Heiser, Heiser's interpretations are not Holy Spirit inspired (and I don't think he would claim they are). I'm not even sure Heiser claims the Bible teaches a flat earth anyway. But whether he does or not, I would disagree with anyone who says that Scripture teaches that the earth is flat.
Because it doesn't.

Did the Hebrews and the rest of the ANE world believe that the earth was flat with a dome over it?
Yes they did.
But again, everything the Hebrews or the ANE world believed is not Holy Spirit inspired.

All Heiser's interpretations are not Holy Spirit inspired.
The cosmological beliefs of the Hebrews and the ANE world were not Holy Spirit inspired.
All Scripture IS inspired by the Holy Spirit.
Ah, so only you know the truth. The Hebrews and everyone else were just dumb farmers.
I never said that...
God knows truth.
And God has communicated that truth to us through Special Revelation (Scripture) and Natural Revelation (Science).

The ANE world did not know what we know today about cosmology because they didn't have the same tools available that we do today.
The Bible says that the sun, moon and stars were put IN the firmament. There's no getting around that. Firmament in Hebrew is raqiya which is solid, firm.
Yet again, you are simply incorrect.
The firmament is the sky.

ANE cosmology (which is not Holy Spirit inspired) may have believed that the firmament/sky is solid.
But Scripture doesn't speak to whether the sky/firmament is solid or not, it states accurately that from the perspective of people on the surface of the earth, the lights from the sun, moon, and stars are in the sky.
And I can personally verify that I see the light from the sun, moon, and stars "in the sky" every day.

The Holy Spirit inspired Scriptural description of lights in the sky is accurate.
The ANE belief that the firmament/sky is solid is not Holy Spirit inspired.
Holy Spirit inspired Scripture does not teach that the sky/firmament is solid.
Come on, it says IN the firmament three times, the sun is supposed to 52 million miles away that is not in the firmament in any way shape or form. Again it's all metaphors with you, everything has to be a metaphor with you because it doesn't line up with scripture.

You're like a spin doctor, and you're spinning pretty hard at the moment, even when the Bible says three times that the sun, moon and stars are in the firmament you say, no they only look like they are. That is not what the Bible said DB. You are on dangerous ground.

It lines up perfectly with the flat earth view though.

If in doubt go back to the original.

The word is "raqiya" and it is described as solid.

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/le ... ongs=h7549

extended surface (solid), expanse, firmament
expanse (flat as base, support)
firmament (of vault of heaven supporting waters above)
considered by Hebrews as solid and supporting 'waters' above

Now you are putting YOUR interpretation of the Bible above what the scholars of old say.

Why would Psalm 19:1 say:
The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.
Surely the sky is not handywork, it would make sense if the firmament was a solid dome though, that would be some tremendous handywork.

In fact it lines up with why God tore down the Tower of Babel because they wanted to reach heaven. And God actually had to intervene otherwise He said they would have achieved their goal. If it is just space up there then God's intervention makes no sense, but if there is a solid dome up there above which is heaven then it makes perfect sense. Explain that.
Only when the blood runs and the shackles restrain, will the sheep then awake. When all is lost.

User avatar
Stu
Esteemed Senior Member
Posts: 1305
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2011 7:32 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Undecided
Has liked: 15 times
Been liked: 42 times

Re: The US NEVER Went To The Moon

#216

Post by Stu » Fri Apr 16, 2021 6:28 am

Here.
Genesis 14-17 King James Version
14 And God said, Let there be lights IN the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
15 And let them be for lights IN the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
17 And God set IN the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
Note before the third "IN". It actually says "God SET in the firmament". That is pretty descriptive as to what He done. He placed them in the firmament.
Last edited by Stu on Fri Apr 16, 2021 6:32 am, edited 2 times in total.
Only when the blood runs and the shackles restrain, will the sheep then awake. When all is lost.

DBowling
Prestigious Senior Member
Posts: 1861
Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2015 8:23 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Day-Age
Has liked: 32 times
Been liked: 203 times

Re: The US NEVER Went To The Moon

#217

Post by DBowling » Fri Apr 16, 2021 6:30 am

Stu wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 5:41 am
Come on, it says IN the firmament three times, the sun is supposed to 52 million miles away that is not in the firmament in any way shape or form.
ok... I just double checked, and yes I do actually see the sun "in the sky" at this very moment.
So I can personally verify the accuracy of the Scriptural claim that the sun is "in the sky".
The word is "raqiya" and it is described as solid.
"raqiya" means expanse

ANE cosmology may have believed that the firmament is solid.
But ANE cosmology is NOT Holy Spirit inspired.

Scripture IS Holy Spirit inspired.
And unlike you, I do not equate uninspired and inaccurate ANE cosmology with Holy Spirit inspired accurate Scripture.
Why would Psalm 19:1 say:
The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.
Simple...
Because...
Wait for it...
The heavens DO declare the glory of God!
and
The firmament DOES show his handiwork!

User avatar
Stu
Esteemed Senior Member
Posts: 1305
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2011 7:32 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Undecided
Has liked: 15 times
Been liked: 42 times

Re: The US NEVER Went To The Moon

#218

Post by Stu » Fri Apr 16, 2021 6:33 am

DBowling wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 6:30 am
Stu wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 5:41 am
Come on, it says IN the firmament three times, the sun is supposed to 52 million miles away that is not in the firmament in any way shape or form.
ok... I just double checked, and yes I do actually see the sun "in the sky" at this very moment.
So I can personally verify the accuracy of the Scriptural claim that the sun is "in the sky".
The word is "raqiya" and it is described as solid.
"raqiya" means expanse

ANE cosmology may have believed that the firmament is solid.
But ANE cosmology is NOT Holy Spirit inspired.

Scripture IS Holy Spirit inspired.
And unlike you, I do not equate uninspired and inaccurate ANE cosmology with Holy Spirit inspired accurate Scripture.
Why would Psalm 19:1 say:
The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.
Simple...
Because...
Wait for it...
The heavens DO declare the glory of God!
and
The firmament DOES show his handiwork!
What is ANE cosmology?

Here.
Genesis 14-17 King James Version
14 And God said, Let there be lights IN the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
15 And let them be for lights IN the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
17 And God set IN the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
Note before the third "IN". It actually says "God SET in the firmament". That is pretty descriptive as to what He done. He placed them in the firmament.
Only when the blood runs and the shackles restrain, will the sheep then awake. When all is lost.

DBowling
Prestigious Senior Member
Posts: 1861
Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2015 8:23 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Day-Age
Has liked: 32 times
Been liked: 203 times

Re: The US NEVER Went To The Moon

#219

Post by DBowling » Fri Apr 16, 2021 6:55 am

Stu wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 6:33 am
DBowling wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 6:30 am
Stu wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 5:41 am
Come on, it says IN the firmament three times, the sun is supposed to 52 million miles away that is not in the firmament in any way shape or form.
ok... I just double checked, and yes I do actually see the sun "in the sky" at this very moment.
So I can personally verify the accuracy of the Scriptural claim that the sun is "in the sky".
The word is "raqiya" and it is described as solid.
"raqiya" means expanse

ANE cosmology may have believed that the firmament is solid.
But ANE cosmology is NOT Holy Spirit inspired.

Scripture IS Holy Spirit inspired.
And unlike you, I do not equate uninspired and inaccurate ANE cosmology with Holy Spirit inspired accurate Scripture.
What is ANE cosmology?
Good point.
It would help if I define the terms I am using.

ANE
The ancient Near East was the home of early civilizations within a region roughly corresponding to the modern Middle East: Mesopotamia (modern Iraq, southeast Turkey, southwest Iran, northeastern Syria and Kuwait), ancient Egypt, ancient Iran (Elam, Media, Parthia and Persia), Anatolia/Asia Minor and the Armenian Highlands (Turkey's Eastern Anatolia Region, Armenia, northwestern Iran, southern Georgia, and western Azerbaijan), the Levant (modern Syria, Lebanon, Israel, Palestine, and Jordan), Cyprus and the Arabian Peninsula. The ancient Near East is studied in the fields of Ancient Near East studies, Near Eastern archaeology and ancient history.
cosmology
a branch of astronomy that deals with the origin, structure, and space-time relationships of the universe
Here.
Genesis 14-17 King James Version
14 And God said, Let there be lights IN the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
15 And let them be for lights IN the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
17 And God set IN the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
Note before the third "IN". It actually says "God SET in the firmament". That is pretty descriptive as to what He done. He placed them in the firmament.
Yes he did...

But... nothing in that passage describes the firmament as solid.
That passage says that God placed the light from the sun, moon, and stars in the sky/firmament.

And as I've repeated a number of times
Based on personal experience I can verify that I have seen the light from the sun, moon, and stars "in the sky" many many many times.

User avatar
RickD
Make me a Sammich Member
Posts: 21974
Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:59 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Day-Age
Location: Kitchen
Has liked: 209 times
Been liked: 1139 times

Re: The US NEVER Went To The Moon

#220

Post by RickD » Fri Apr 16, 2021 6:58 am

RickD wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 3:51 am
Stu wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 3:41 am
RickD wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 3:21 am
Stu,

In Jesus’ own words, he claims to be bread:

John 6:51
51 I am the living bread that came down out of heaven; if anyone eats from this bread, he will live forever; and the bread which I will give for the life of the world also is My flesh.”

Since Jesus said it in the Bible, is this a true representation of Jesus’ appearance?
Image
I see you ignored the NASA FOOTAGE in favour of silly games.

If you have no answer for why they faked a photo of the earth in their craft or why they were no where near the moon according to the footage, that is fine but ignoring some of the most damning evidence in the history of NASA's existence speaks volumes about you.
I suspect that no one including DB won't respond because it's clear for all to see what the truth is according to NASA's own footage.
Oh, so you can’t answer my question? Or do you deny Jesus’ own words? Either Jesus is bread like he said, or the Bible and Jesus’ own words are wrong.

Why won’t you answer?
Stu,

Still awaiting your answer.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.


The Flat Earth Society has members all around the globe.



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

User avatar
Stu
Esteemed Senior Member
Posts: 1305
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2011 7:32 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Undecided
Has liked: 15 times
Been liked: 42 times

Re: The US NEVER Went To The Moon

#221

Post by Stu » Fri Apr 16, 2021 7:33 am

DBowling wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 6:55 am
Stu wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 6:33 am
DBowling wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 6:30 am
Stu wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 5:41 am
Come on, it says IN the firmament three times, the sun is supposed to 52 million miles away that is not in the firmament in any way shape or form.
ok... I just double checked, and yes I do actually see the sun "in the sky" at this very moment.
So I can personally verify the accuracy of the Scriptural claim that the sun is "in the sky".
The word is "raqiya" and it is described as solid.
"raqiya" means expanse

ANE cosmology may have believed that the firmament is solid.
But ANE cosmology is NOT Holy Spirit inspired.

Scripture IS Holy Spirit inspired.
And unlike you, I do not equate uninspired and inaccurate ANE cosmology with Holy Spirit inspired accurate Scripture.
What is ANE cosmology?
Good point.
It would help if I define the terms I am using.

ANE
The ancient Near East was the home of early civilizations within a region roughly corresponding to the modern Middle East: Mesopotamia (modern Iraq, southeast Turkey, southwest Iran, northeastern Syria and Kuwait), ancient Egypt, ancient Iran (Elam, Media, Parthia and Persia), Anatolia/Asia Minor and the Armenian Highlands (Turkey's Eastern Anatolia Region, Armenia, northwestern Iran, southern Georgia, and western Azerbaijan), the Levant (modern Syria, Lebanon, Israel, Palestine, and Jordan), Cyprus and the Arabian Peninsula. The ancient Near East is studied in the fields of Ancient Near East studies, Near Eastern archaeology and ancient history.
cosmology
a branch of astronomy that deals with the origin, structure, and space-time relationships of the universe
Here.
Genesis 14-17 King James Version
14 And God said, Let there be lights IN the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
15 And let them be for lights IN the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
17 And God set IN the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
Note before the third "IN". It actually says "God SET in the firmament". That is pretty descriptive as to what He done. He placed them in the firmament.
Yes he did...

But... nothing in that passage describes the firmament as solid.
That passage says that God placed the light from the sun, moon, and stars in the sky/firmament.

And as I've repeated a number of times
Based on personal experience I can verify that I have seen the light from the sun, moon, and stars "in the sky" many many many times.
No, it's not ANE cosmology, it is Hebrew cosmology. Stop trying to spin it away.

You are being a little disingenuous now or you are just not reading the text properly.
Genesis 14-17 King James Version[/b]
14 And God said, Let there be lights IN the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
15 And let them be for lights IN the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
17 And God set IN the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
Note verse 15, it clearly refers to the "for lights" and "give light" as two different things, so here God did not say (as you are saying) that it was the light of the sun that was in the firmament but the source of the light itself that was in the firmament and that that source gave light upon the earth!!!!! Come on man.

And verse 17 is exactly the same. It says that God set in the firmament, that which gave light upon the earth. So He is referring to two different things, the SOURCE of the light and the light which is on the earth.

Twice it refers to two different things, the SOURCE of the light and the LIGHT THAT SHONE ON THE EARTH.

Surely you can see that?

The word rakiya means:
extended surface (solid), expanse, firmament
expanse (flat as base, support)
firmament (of vault of heaven supporting waters above)
considered by Hebrews as solid and supporting 'waters' above
https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/le ... ongs=h7549

The root word of rakiya is raqa which means:
to beat, stamp, beat out, spread out, stretch
to stamp, beat out
one who beats out (participle)
(Piel) to overlay, beat out (for plating)
(Pual) beaten out (participle)
(Hiphil) to make a spreading (of clouds)
https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/le ... 7554&t=KJV

You can clearly see they are linked when the firmament is solid.

What about the Greek. Stereoma:
that which has been made firm
the firmament, the arch of the sky, which in early times was thought to be solid
a fortified place
that which furnishes a foundation
on which a thing rests firmly, support
firmness, steadfastness
metaph. in a military sense: solid front
https://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicon ... reoma.html

Even more conclusive in the Greek.

Are you saying those who translated the Old Testament to Greek didn't know what they were talking about? They clearly believed the firmament was solid.
Only when the blood runs and the shackles restrain, will the sheep then awake. When all is lost.

User avatar
RickD
Make me a Sammich Member
Posts: 21974
Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:59 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Day-Age
Location: Kitchen
Has liked: 209 times
Been liked: 1139 times

Re: The US NEVER Went To The Moon

#222

Post by RickD » Fri Apr 16, 2021 8:09 am

RickD wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 6:58 am
RickD wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 3:51 am
Stu wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 3:41 am
RickD wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 3:21 am
Stu,

In Jesus’ own words, he claims to be bread:

John 6:51
51 I am the living bread that came down out of heaven; if anyone eats from this bread, he will live forever; and the bread which I will give for the life of the world also is My flesh.”

Since Jesus said it in the Bible, is this a true representation of Jesus’ appearance?
Image
I see you ignored the NASA FOOTAGE in favour of silly games.

If you have no answer for why they faked a photo of the earth in their craft or why they were no where near the moon according to the footage, that is fine but ignoring some of the most damning evidence in the history of NASA's existence speaks volumes about you.
I suspect that no one including DB won't respond because it's clear for all to see what the truth is according to NASA's own footage.
Oh, so you can’t answer my question? Or do you deny Jesus’ own words? Either Jesus is bread like he said, or the Bible and Jesus’ own words are wrong.

Why won’t you answer?
Stu,

Still awaiting your answer.
Stu,
Jesus said he is the living bread. The word for bread in John 6:51 is artos. Artos means loaf of bread. So either Jesus is a loaf of bread, or he didn’t know what he was talking about. Which is it?
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.


The Flat Earth Society has members all around the globe.



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

DBowling
Prestigious Senior Member
Posts: 1861
Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2015 8:23 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Day-Age
Has liked: 32 times
Been liked: 203 times

Re: The US NEVER Went To The Moon

#223

Post by DBowling » Fri Apr 16, 2021 8:17 am

Stu wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 7:33 am
DBowling wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 6:55 am
Stu wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 6:33 am

Here.
Genesis 14-17 King James Version
14 And God said, Let there be lights IN the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
15 And let them be for lights IN the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
17 And God set IN the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
Note before the third "IN". It actually says "God SET in the firmament". That is pretty descriptive as to what He done. He placed them in the firmament.
Yes he did...

But... nothing in that passage describes the firmament as solid.
That passage says that God placed the light from the sun, moon, and stars in the sky/firmament.

And as I've repeated a number of times
Based on personal experience I can verify that I have seen the light from the sun, moon, and stars "in the sky" many many many times.
No, it's not ANE cosmology, it is Hebrew cosmology. Stop trying to spin it away.
ANE scholars (like Heiser) know that Hebrew cosmology is closely related to ANE cosmology... since ancient Israel is part of the ANE.

But if you want me to split it out.
Hebrew cosmology is not inspired by the Holy Spirit either.
You are being a little disingenuous now or you are just not reading the text properly.
No I am just not agreeing with your inaccurate interpretation of the text.

Disagreeing with your inaccurate interpretation is not disingenuous.
Disagreeing with your inaccurate interpretation does not make me wrong either.

ANE cosmology is not Holy Spirit inspired.
Hebrew cosmology is not Holy Spirit inspired.
Your inaccurate interpretation is most definitely NOT Holy Spirit inspired (it may be inspired by someone else though)

Scripture IS inspired by the Holy Spirit.
And I do not equate uninspired and inaccurate ANE and/or Hebrew cosmology with Holy Spirit inspired Scripture.
Are you saying those who translated the Old Testament to Greek didn't know what they were talking about? They clearly believed the firmament was solid.
What people "in early times" thought about the firmament is not the issue here.

"which in early times was thought" is very different from inspiration by the Holy Spirit
People "in early times" thought all kinds of things that were not Holy Spirit inspired or even true.

I do not equate uninspired and inaccurate things that people "in early times" thought with Holy Spirit inspired Scripture.
The key here is that Holy Spirit inspired Scripture does not state that the firmament is solid in either Hebrew or Greek... or English either for that matter.

User avatar
Stu
Esteemed Senior Member
Posts: 1305
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2011 7:32 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Undecided
Has liked: 15 times
Been liked: 42 times

Re: The US NEVER Went To The Moon

#224

Post by Stu » Fri Apr 16, 2021 8:52 am

DBowling wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 8:17 am
Stu wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 7:33 am
DBowling wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 6:55 am
Stu wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 6:33 am

Here.
Genesis 14-17 King James Version
14 And God said, Let there be lights IN the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
15 And let them be for lights IN the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
17 And God set IN the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
Note before the third "IN". It actually says "God SET in the firmament". That is pretty descriptive as to what He done. He placed them in the firmament.
Yes he did...

But... nothing in that passage describes the firmament as solid.
That passage says that God placed the light from the sun, moon, and stars in the sky/firmament.

And as I've repeated a number of times
Based on personal experience I can verify that I have seen the light from the sun, moon, and stars "in the sky" many many many times.
No, it's not ANE cosmology, it is Hebrew cosmology. Stop trying to spin it away.
ANE scholars (like Heiser) know that Hebrew cosmology is closely related to ANE cosmology... since ancient Israel is part of the ANE.

But if you want me to split it out.
Hebrew cosmology is not inspired by the Holy Spirit either.
You are being a little disingenuous now or you are just not reading the text properly.
No I am just not agreeing with your inaccurate interpretation of the text.

Disagreeing with your inaccurate interpretation is not disingenuous.
Disagreeing with your inaccurate interpretation does not make me wrong either.

ANE cosmology is not Holy Spirit inspired.
Hebrew cosmology is not Holy Spirit inspired.
Your inaccurate interpretation is most definitely NOT Holy Spirit inspired (it may be inspired by someone else though)

Scripture IS inspired by the Holy Spirit.
And I do not equate uninspired and inaccurate ANE and/or Hebrew cosmology with Holy Spirit inspired Scripture.
Are you saying those who translated the Old Testament to Greek didn't know what they were talking about? They clearly believed the firmament was solid.
What people "in early times" thought about the firmament is not the issue here.

"which in early times was thought" is very different from inspiration by the Holy Spirit
People "in early times" thought all kinds of things that were not Holy Spirit inspired or even true.

I do not equate uninspired and inaccurate things that people "in early times" thought with Holy Spirit inspired Scripture.
The key here is that Holy Spirit inspired Scripture does not state that the firmament is solid in either Hebrew or Greek... or English either for that matter.
I just gave you the Greek word for rakiya, stereoma.

that which has been made firm
the firmament, the arch of the sky, which in early times was thought to be solid
a fortified place
that which furnishes a foundation
on which a thing rests firmly, support
firmness, steadfastness
metaph. in a military sense: solid front

You are making up your own version on the Old Testament and putting your word above those who translated the Hebrew to Greek, and the Hebrew text as well, you would think those translators knew more about Hebrew and Greek than you do, but apparently not. Here were have BD in the year 2021 2000 years later saying that the translators got it wrong and he is right.

And I have yet to see you produce a source that says rakiya means expanse and not solid. All we have from you is hand waving an your opinion I provided multiple sources, all we have from you is your opinion. I think the translators got it right and you have got it wrong.
Only when the blood runs and the shackles restrain, will the sheep then awake. When all is lost.

User avatar
Stu
Esteemed Senior Member
Posts: 1305
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2011 7:32 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Undecided
Has liked: 15 times
Been liked: 42 times

Re: The US NEVER Went To The Moon

#225

Post by Stu » Fri Apr 16, 2021 8:57 am

Ok, let's see what the scriptures say.

1).
Genesis 1:7-9 King James Version
7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
Here we see the according to the Blue Letter Bible Hebrews use the word "raqiya" which has the firmament as a solid, not some vapour :
extended surface (solid), expanse, firmament
expanse (flat as base, support)
firmament (of vault of heaven supporting waters above)
considered by Hebrews as solid and supporting 'waters' above
https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/le ... ongs=h7549

Where is the water that is above the firmament?

2).
Genesis 14-17 King James Version
14 And God said, Let there be lights IN the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
15 And let them be for lights IN the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
17 And God set IN the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
Here we see that the Bible says that the Moon, Sun and Stars are IN the firmament.

The Bible clearly states three time that God placed the Sun, Moon and Stars IN the firmament?

In verse 17 it says He set them, that is He placed them in the firmament.

And He refers to the source of the light being IN the firmament and the light which the source gives out as two seperate things. The source in the firmament and the light from the source on the earth.
NOT the light from the source in the firmament, the source itself is in the firmament.

3).
Joshua 10:12-14 King James Version
12 Then spake Joshua to the Lord in the day when the Lord delivered up the Amorites before the children of Israel, and he said in the sight of Israel, Sun, stand thou still upon Gibeon; and thou, Moon, in the valley of Ajalon.
13 And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.
14 And there was no day like that before it or after it, that the Lord hearkened unto the voice of a man: for the Lord fought for Israel.
And here the granddaddy of them all, Joshua asks the Lord to stop the sun and moon, and it says that the sun and moon stood still. How is that explained in the heliocentric model??

4).
1 Chronicles 16:27-34 New International Version
30 Tremble before him, all the earth!
The world is firmly established; it cannot be moved.
Why would God even use such language as "The world is firmly established; it cannot be moved." if He knew that the earth is spinning at 1,000 mph and revolving around the sun at 66,600mph while the sun shoots through space at 450,000mph while the Milky Way moves through space at 650,000,000 mph.

The earth is in no way shape or form immovavble according to the globe model. It is the complete opposite. Surely God knew that it would contradict with science.

5).
Isaiah 66:1 King James Version
1 Thus saith the Lord, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?
Isn't it funny that if you take the flat earth Hebrew position of a domed earth with God's throne just above the dome, that all the supposed metaphors actually become real. With the heliocentric model you have to twist and fit the Bible into that model, especially Joshua 10.

Just as when God said that if He did not intervene when man was building the Tower of Babel that they would ACHIEVE their goal.

6).
Isaiah 22:18 King James Version
18 He will surely violently turn and toss thee like a ball into a large country: there shalt thou die, and there the chariots of thy glory shall be the shame of thy lord's house.
Isaiah 40:22 King James Version
22 It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:
And here we see that Isaiah knew the difference between a ball and a circle.

Note the phrase "spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in". What does a tent look like? It has a flat bottom and a dome over it..... again the flat earth version just happens to fit perfectly with what the Bible says.

7).
Isaiah 34:4 King James Version
4 And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree.
Note that it refers to their 'host" shall fall down, as a leaf or fig falling from the vine and tree. Those are connected to something.

Just as I showed with that Pastor Carl Gallups video, he had a vision of the rapture and the stars that fell to earth were in fact angelic beings not gignatic stars, just as the BIble says and the ancient Hebrews believed. Amazing how it lines up with the flat earth view.

And it makes more sense than rolling up the universe/space, rather the firmament will be rolled up and reveal Jesus in heaven.

8 ).
1 Samuel 2:8 King James Version
8 He raiseth up the poor out of the dust, and lifteth up the beggar from the dunghill, to set them among princes, and to make them inherit the throne of glory: for the pillars of the earth are the Lord's, and he hath set the world upon them.
This is pretty specific language. "pillars of the earth". God could have used anything to explain but he chose pillars.

9).
Revelation 7:1-5 King James Version
7 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.
A globe doesn't have four corners in any way whatsoever, a flat surface does.
Again even if it was a metaphor, at some point the metaphors have got to line up with reality in some way, they don't all the time unless the earth is flat of course.

10).
Job 38:4 King James Version
4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
Foundations, something that has foundations has a bottom, the globe earth hanging in empty space has no bottom or foundation, it has a center.
Remember this is God speaking.

11).
Job 38:6 King James Version
6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
Sounds like the foundations are fastened to something? What is a globe earth in space fastened to?
Perhaps the foundations are fastened to pillars that are spoken of earlier as in a flat earth model?
Corner stone? Does it get any clearer that it is not a globe.
Remember this is God speaking.

12).
Job 38:14 Amplified Bible
14 “The earth is changed like clay into which a seal is pressed;
And the things [of the earth] stand out like a [multi-colored] garment.
Remember this is God talking.

And here it settles it all. When clay is pressed with a seal it makes it flat, with up turned edges (set a boundary for the seas). When you press a seal into a piece of clay it DOES NOT form a globe in any way shape or form or metaphor.

13).
Ezekiel 1:26 King James Bible
26 And above the firmament that was over their heads was the likeness of a throne, as the appearance of a sapphire stone: and upon the likeness of the throne was the likeness as the appearance of a man above upon it.
And here Ezekiel quite clearly says that above the firmament is God's throne. And in other scripture it says that the earth is God's foot stool which makes sense if He is just above the earth.

14).
2 Peter 1:20-21 King James Bible
20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
And unlike Heiser I believe that all scripture is God inspired and good for teaching.
Only when the blood runs and the shackles restrain, will the sheep then awake. When all is lost.

Post Reply