The US NEVER Went To The Moon

Discussions on Christian eschatology including different views pertaining to Jesus' second coming, rapture and tribulation, the millennium, and so forth.
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Re: The US NEVER Went To The Moon

#226

Post by RickD » Fri Apr 16, 2021 9:22 am

DB,

Are you starting to see how ridiculous this is yet?
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.


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Re: The US NEVER Went To The Moon

#227

Post by RickD » Fri Apr 16, 2021 9:28 am

Stu wrote:
Sounds like the foundations are fastened to something? What is a globe earth in space fastened to?
Perhaps the foundations are fastened to pillars that are spoken of earlier as in a flat earth model?
Corner stone? Does it get any clearer that it is not a globe.
Remember this is God speaking.
So, how is the earth a flat disc? A disc has no corners. Does it get any clearer than that?
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.


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Re: The US NEVER Went To The Moon

#228

Post by Stu » Fri Apr 16, 2021 9:34 am

RickD wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 9:28 am
Stu wrote:
Sounds like the foundations are fastened to something? What is a globe earth in space fastened to?
Perhaps the foundations are fastened to pillars that are spoken of earlier as in a flat earth model?
Corner stone? Does it get any clearer that it is not a globe.
Remember this is God speaking.
So, how is the earth a flat disc? A disc has no corners. Does it get any clearer than that?
The dome is the circle. The four corners are of the earth outside of the dome. Something like this.


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Re: The US NEVER Went To The Moon

#229

Post by RickD » Fri Apr 16, 2021 9:41 am

Stu wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 9:34 am
RickD wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 9:28 am
Stu wrote:
Sounds like the foundations are fastened to something? What is a globe earth in space fastened to?
Perhaps the foundations are fastened to pillars that are spoken of earlier as in a flat earth model?
Corner stone? Does it get any clearer that it is not a globe.
Remember this is God speaking.
So, how is the earth a flat disc? A disc has no corners. Does it get any clearer than that?
The dome is the circle. The four corners are of the earth outside of the dome. Something like this.


Image
I suppose you have proof of this that you will show us?
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.


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Re: The US NEVER Went To The Moon

#230

Post by EssentialSacrifice » Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:09 am

Rick:
John 6:51
51 I am the living bread that came down out of heaven; if anyone eats from this bread, he will live forever; and the bread which I will give for the life of the world also is My flesh.”

Stu,
Jesus said he is the living bread. The word for bread in John 6:51 is artos. Artos means loaf of bread. So either Jesus is a loaf of bread, or he didn’t know what he was talking about. Which is it?
This isn’t completely correct, there is a third and true (spelled out in your bible) possibility...

61 But Jesus, knowing in himself that his disciples murmured at it, said to them, “Do you take offense at this? 62 Then what if you were to see the Son of man ascending where he was before?[c] 63 It is the spirit that gives life, the flesh is of no avail; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life. 64 But there are some of you that do not believe.”

He was speaking on bread from heaven (Himself) neither literally nor metaphorically... but spiritually, just as He was when speaking “Do you take offense at this? 62 Then what if you were to see the Son of man ascending where he was before? (Heaven)

There is no way known to get to heaven by physical means. His audience knew this. You can only ascend spiritually, upon death, which is why Christ uses the analogy. If you were to see me rise to heaven, now in your physical being, and the only way possible to ascend is spiritually would that then convince you of my ability to spiritually feed you my body and blood for your salvation.

He is neither a physical loaf of bread nor do we have to consume (how could we?) a literal physical body, but instead an unlimited spiritual partaking until the end of time. Hebrews 10:14

“the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life.”
Trust the past to God’s mercy, the present to God’s love, and the future to God’s providence. -St Augustine

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Re: The US NEVER Went To The Moon

#231

Post by RickD » Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:19 am

EssentialSacrifice wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:09 am
Rick:
John 6:51
51 I am the living bread that came down out of heaven; if anyone eats from this bread, he will live forever; and the bread which I will give for the life of the world also is My flesh.”

Stu,
Jesus said he is the living bread. The word for bread in John 6:51 is artos. Artos means loaf of bread. So either Jesus is a loaf of bread, or he didn’t know what he was talking about. Which is it?
This isn’t completely correct, there is a third and true (spelled out in your bible) possibility...

61 But Jesus, knowing in himself that his disciples murmured at it, said to them, “Do you take offense at this? 62 Then what if you were to see the Son of man ascending where he was before?[c] 63 It is the spirit that gives life, the flesh is of no avail; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life. 64 But there are some of you that do not believe.”

He was speaking on bread from heaven (Himself) neither literally nor metaphorically... but spiritually, just as He was when speaking “Do you take offense at this? 62 Then what if you were to see the Son of man ascending where he was before? (Heaven)

There is no way known to get to heaven by physical means. His audience knew this. You can only ascend spiritually, upon death, which is why Christ uses the analogy. If you were to see me rise to heaven, now in your physical being, and the only way possible to ascend is spiritually would that then convince you of my ability to spiritually feed you my body and blood for your salvation.

He is neither a physical loaf of bread nor do we have to consume (how could we?) a literal physical body, but instead an unlimited spiritual partaking until the end of time. Hebrews 10:14

“the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life.”
ES,

It’s a ridiculous point that I’m trying to get across to Stu. Of course Jesus is not a loaf of bread. Nor is He literally a rock. But Stu cannot say that Jesus is not a literal loaf of bread. Stu cannot say that Jesus is not a literal rock. If Stu were to admit the Bible wasn’t to be taken literally in these two instances, it would completely destroy his arguments.

Stu is being absolutely asinine. And the fact that he cannot see how asinine his “arguments” are, is even more asinine.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.


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Re: The US NEVER Went To The Moon

#232

Post by DBowling » Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:21 am

Stu wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 8:57 am
Ok, let's see what the scriptures say.

1).
Genesis 1:7-9 King James Version
7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
Here we see the according to the Blue Letter Bible Hebrews use the word "raqiya" which has the firmament as a solid, not some vapour :s
If we focus on what the text actually says instead of what ancient Hebrews thought this is very simple.

God divides the water under the firmament (ie on the surface of the earth)
from the water above the firmament (ie in the atmosphere)

And again we can easily verify the accuracy of Scripture.
Today there is water under the firmament (on the surface of the earth).
Today there is water above the firmament (in the atmosphere)
2).
Genesis 14-17 King James Version
14 And God said, Let there be lights IN the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
15 And let them be for lights IN the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
17 And God set IN the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
Here we see that the Bible says that the Moon, Sun and Stars are IN the firmament.

The Bible clearly states three time that God placed the Sun, Moon and Stars IN the firmament?
As I have mentioned repeatedly the text tells us that God placed the light from the sun, moon, and stars in the sky/firmament.
And the light from the sun, moon, and stars is still visible in the sky/firmament to this very day .

Note: God does not create (barah) the sun, moon, and stars in verse 17.
The sun, moon, and stars were created (barah) with the rest of the heavens back in Genesis 1:1
In Genesis 1:17 God placed the light from the sun, moon, and stars in the sky/firmament (ie made the light visible in the sky).
3).
Joshua 10:12-14 King James Version
12 Then spake Joshua to the Lord in the day when the Lord delivered up the Amorites before the children of Israel, and he said in the sight of Israel, Sun, stand thou still upon Gibeon; and thou, Moon, in the valley of Ajalon.
13 And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.
14 And there was no day like that before it or after it, that the Lord hearkened unto the voice of a man: for the Lord fought for Israel.
And here the granddaddy of them all, Joshua asks the Lord to stop the sun and moon, and it says that the sun and moon stood still. How is that explained in the heliocentric model??
Its not "explained" in any model.

Why?
It was a miracle!

And this text says nothing about the shape of the earth.
4).
1 Chronicles 16:27-34 New International Version
30 Tremble before him, all the earth!
The world is firmly established; it cannot be moved.
Why would God even use such language as "The world is firmly established; it cannot be moved."
Because as I mentioned before, this is an accurate observation from the perspective of the surface of the earth.
And once more... this passage says nothing about the shape of the earth
5).
Isaiah 66:1 King James Version
1 Thus saith the Lord, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?
Are you claiming that this passage says that God has physical feet?
Yes...
"the earth is my footstool" is a metaphor
6).
Isaiah 22:18 King James Version
18 He will surely violently turn and toss thee like a ball into a large country: there shalt thou die, and there the chariots of thy glory shall be the shame of thy lord's house.
Isaiah 40:22 King James Version
22 It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:
And here we see that Isaiah knew the difference between a ball and a circle.

Note the phrase "spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in". What does a tent look like? It has a flat bottom and a dome over it..... again the flat earth version just happens to fit perfectly with what the Bible says.

7).
Isaiah 34:4 King James Version
4 And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree.
Note that it refers to their 'host" shall fall down, as a leaf or fig falling from the vine and tree. Those are connected to something.

Just as I showed with that Pastor Carl Gallups video, he had a vision of the rapture and the stars that fell to earth were in fact angelic beings not gignatic stars, just as the BIble says and the ancient Hebrews believed. Amazing how it lines up with the flat earth view.

And it makes more sense than rolling up the universe/space, rather the firmament will be rolled up and reveal Jesus in heaven.

8 ).
1 Samuel 2:8 King James Version
8 He raiseth up the poor out of the dust, and lifteth up the beggar from the dunghill, to set them among princes, and to make them inherit the throne of glory: for the pillars of the earth are the Lord's, and he hath set the world upon them.
This is pretty specific language. "pillars of the earth". God could have used anything to explain but he chose pillars.

9).
Revelation 7:1-5 King James Version
7 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.
A globe doesn't have four corners in any way whatsoever, a flat surface does.
Again even if it was a metaphor, at some point the metaphors have got to line up with reality in some way, they don't all the time unless the earth is flat of course.

10).
Job 38:4 King James Version
4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
Foundations, something that has foundations has a bottom, the globe earth hanging in empty space has no bottom or foundation, it has a center.
Remember this is God speaking.

11).
Job 38:6 King James Version
6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
Sounds like the foundations are fastened to something? What is a globe earth in space fastened to?
Perhaps the foundations are fastened to pillars that are spoken of earlier as in a flat earth model?
Corner stone? Does it get any clearer that it is not a globe.
Remember this is God speaking.

12).
Job 38:14 Amplified Bible
14 “The earth is changed like clay into which a seal is pressed;
And the things [of the earth] stand out like a [multi-colored] garment.
Remember this is God talking.

And here it settles it all. When clay is pressed with a seal it makes it flat, with up turned edges (set a boundary for the seas). When you press a seal into a piece of clay it DOES NOT form a globe in any way shape or form or metaphor.
Hugh Ross deals with a number of these Scriptures in his article
Is the Bible a Flat-Earth Book?
https://reasons.org/publications/is-the ... arth-book/
14).
2 Peter 1:20-21 King James Bible
20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
I believe that all scripture is God inspired and good for teaching.
I believe all Scripture is inspired by the Holy Spirit, good for teaching, and TRUE!!.
Therefore if anyone claims that Scripture teaches a known lie then I know for a fact that person's interpretation of Scripture is false.
Last edited by DBowling on Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The US NEVER Went To The Moon

#233

Post by EssentialSacrifice » Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:23 am

Also... your some of your significant numbers are a bit skewed...

our galaxy travels at about 515,000 mph. your 650,00,000 mph is only about 20K slower than the speed of light.

I believe the Sun is approx 93,000,000 miles from earth not 53,000,000

I'm sorry if this seems like nit picking but it does throw other segments of your claims in to question. Here's one...

you can create an round shadow with a straight object... you asked me to try it myself but I would prefer you show me an example of this that runs on a continuous cycle over 24 hour period over 365 days over at least 6 millenniums. I just can't think of anything that fits this bill...
Trust the past to God’s mercy, the present to God’s love, and the future to God’s providence. -St Augustine

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Re: The US NEVER Went To The Moon

#234

Post by DBowling » Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:23 am

RickD wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 9:22 am
DB,

Are you starting to see how ridiculous this is yet?
Oh... we blew past 'starting' quite a while ago :)

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Re: The US NEVER Went To The Moon

#235

Post by EssentialSacrifice » Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:29 am

ES,

It’s a ridiculous point that I’m trying to get across to Stu. Of course Jesus is not a loaf of bread. Nor is He literally a rock. But Stu cannot say that Jesus is not a literal loaf of bread. Stu cannot say that Jesus is not a literal rock. If Stu were to admit the Bible wasn’t to be taken literally in these two instances, it would completely destroy his arguments.
10-4 Rick, sorry for the intrusion it's just so many Stu things said are refutable and your right, on that level of "consistency in thought and word", your example puts the kybosh(sp) on arguments he has proposed.
Trust the past to God’s mercy, the present to God’s love, and the future to God’s providence. -St Augustine

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Re: The US NEVER Went To The Moon

#236

Post by RickD » Fri Apr 16, 2021 1:33 pm

EssentialSacrifice wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:29 am
ES,

It’s a ridiculous point that I’m trying to get across to Stu. Of course Jesus is not a loaf of bread. Nor is He literally a rock. But Stu cannot say that Jesus is not a literal loaf of bread. Stu cannot say that Jesus is not a literal rock. If Stu were to admit the Bible wasn’t to be taken literally in these two instances, it would completely destroy his arguments.
10-4 Rick, sorry for the intrusion it's just so many Stu things said are refutable and your right, on that level of "consistency in thought and word", your example puts the kybosh(sp) on arguments he has proposed.
It’s not an intrusion at all. Stu is vilifying us for our interpretation, because we don’t take certain scripture literally, like he does. But then he cannot see the hypocrisy, when I point out the fact that he’s not taking scripture literally either, unless he thinks Jesus is literally a rock and literally a loaf of bread.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.


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Re: The US NEVER Went To The Moon

#237

Post by RickD » Fri Apr 16, 2021 1:34 pm

DBowling wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:23 am
RickD wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 9:22 am
DB,

Are you starting to see how ridiculous this is yet?
Oh... we blew past 'starting' quite a while ago :)
y#-o
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.


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Re: The US NEVER Went To The Moon

#238

Post by Fliegender » Fri Apr 16, 2021 1:46 pm

I’m still wondering is Mars is a flat plate or a sphere...

y:-?
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Re: The US NEVER Went To The Moon

#239

Post by RickD » Fri Apr 16, 2021 2:45 pm

Fliegender wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 1:46 pm
I’m still wondering is Mars is a flat plate or a sphere...

y:-?
It’s a sphere, but apparently it’s not a planet because the Bible doesn’t mention planets.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.


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Re: The US NEVER Went To The Moon

#240

Post by Fliegender » Fri Apr 16, 2021 4:29 pm

RickD wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 2:45 pm
Fliegender wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 1:46 pm
I’m still wondering is Mars is a flat plate or a sphere...

y:-?
It’s a sphere, but apparently it’s not a planet because the Bible doesn’t mention planets.
Ah...okay. Do you think the Nephilim came from Mars?
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