Stu wrote: ↑
Sat Jan 05, 2019 9:52 am
DBowling wrote: ↑
Sat Jan 05, 2019 6:48 am
Stu wrote: ↑
Sat Jan 05, 2019 6:28 am
We will be raptured out before God's wrath. That's how I understand it.
Do you have any Scripture to support that assertion?
There was this a video I watched on the rapture, a discussion between Steve Quayle and Pastor David Lankford, and that seemed pretty well on the money. I don't remember the scriptures he quoted though.
Ok... you gave me a video and no Scripture, but I did watch your video all the way through.
There are some areas where Lankford was Scriptural and there were some areas where he was unScriptural.
Let's start with the parts where he was actually Scriptural.
- He correctly stated that Scripture teaches only ONE physical return of Jesus, and that is the Second Coming of Jesus.
- He correctly states that Scripture teaches that the Great Tribulation would last for 42 months.
- And he correctly refers to the Pre-Trib Rapture as the "False Doctrine of the Pre-Trib Rapture". So I am confused why you would use this video to defend your statement that "We will be raptured out before God's wrath" when he directly contradicts your statement.
Here is where Lankford directly contradicts Scripture.
- Lankford claims that the Great Tribulation is a future event, which (as I've noted a number of times) directly contradicts the teaching of Jesus (Matthew 24:34) and John (Rev 1:1-3)
- Lankford also incorrectly claims that The Return of Jesus takes place immediately after the Great Tribulation, but that is not what Jesus says in the Olivet Discourse.
So let's look at what Jesus actually says in the Olivet Discourse...
29 “But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory. 31 And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.
Note that the coming of the Son of Man (verse 30) does not take place immediately after the Great Tribulation.
Jesus says that "the powers of the heavens will be shaken" (verse 29) immediately after the Great Tribulation.
So according to Jesus, the events of Mat 24:29 take place between the Great Tribulation and the Second Coming of Jesus.
Luke's account of the Olivet Discourse gives us some additional information...
24 and they will fall by the edge of the sword, and will be led captive into all the nations; and Jerusalem will be trampled under foot by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.
25 “There will be signs in sun and moon and stars, and on the earth dismay among nations, in perplexity at the roaring of the sea and the waves, 26 men fainting from fear and the expectation of the things which are coming upon the world; for the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 27 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
So according to Luke's account of the Olivet Discourse Jesus associates the "times of the Gentiles" with the "powers of the heavens being shaken" that takes place between the Great Tribulation and the Second coming of Jesus.
So the sequence of events that Jesus gives in the Olivet Discourse is:
1. The Great Tribulation
2. The Times of the Gentiles
3. The Second Coming of Jesus
Lankford also correctly identified the event that starts the Great Tribulation
15 “Therefore when you see the abomination of desolation which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand),
So what does the prophecy of Daniel 9:24-27 say about the timing of the abomination of desolation (Daniel 9:27)?
According to Daniel 9:24, 490 years were to pass between the decree to rebuild Jerusalem and the Abomination of Desolation. Daniel's prophecy also prophesies the first coming of the Messiah (Daniel 9:25).
So it is Scripturally impossible for the Great Tribulation to take place 2000 years after the time of Jesus, when the total time span of Daniel's prophecy is 490 years and includes both the first coming of the Messiah and the Abomination of Desolation.
And Luke's account of the Olivet Discourse provides additional information regarding what Matthew identifies as the Abomination of Desolation.
20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that her desolation is near.
So putting this all together...
- According to Jesus, the Great Tribulation begins with the Abomination of Desolation
- Luke's Gospel equates the Abomination of Desolation with Jerusalem being surrounded by the Roman armies.
- Daniel's prophecy states that the Abomination of Desolation occurs 490 years after the decree to rebuild Jerusalem
All of which points to a Great Tribulation that lasted for the 42 months of the Roman siege from 68 AD to the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple in 70 AD.
That's what history tells us.
And that's what Jesus, John, and Daniel tell us in the pages of Scripture.