Aliens

Discussions on Christian eschatology including different views pertaining to Jesus' second coming, rapture and tribulation, the millennium, and so forth.
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Re: Aliens

#106

Post by RickD » Thu May 15, 2014 12:38 pm

Seraph wrote:
You have no idea if thats true or not. Any neurologist will tell you that as science has gone on, the human mind has appeared progressively less mystical and mysterious, and more like the mind is a product of brain functions. If this weren't true, how could mind altering drugs work? If the mind is largely physical brain functions, it's not difficult to imagine that not living components could form a simple non sentient form of life that is much less complex that the human brain, and that over a very long time that simple life would become what we are today.
Imagination and evidence are two different things. Can you show me any evidence that life can come from non life to support abiogenesis?
I was being generous to the creationists by selecting a large number as a theoretical figure. Afterall it's always the creationists who exclaim that life could not have arose naturally because the chances of life on Earth arising (I assume they mean through abiogenesis) are so slim. In fact thats a major foundation of the entire God and Science website.
So, like I said, you chose a large random number to make it sound more plausible.

Show me the evidence you have for abiogenesis(life coming from non-life).
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Furstentum Liechtenstein
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Re: Aliens

#107

Post by Furstentum Liechtenstein » Thu May 15, 2014 3:29 pm

Seraph wrote:Life almost certainly does exist on other planets. Even if it's true that life on a given planet only has around a one in a 10 trillion chance of occurring through abiogenesis, there is probably at least 100 quintillion different planets in the universe. Life on other planets is rare and sparse from our perspective, probably with no other life forms in our galaxy, however on the scale of the universe as a whole, I'll bet life is quite abundant.
OK...your profile says that you live in Arizona but the evidence shows that you think like a Canadian. y3:-O

You have my sympathy.

FL y=:)
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Re: Aliens

#108

Post by RickD » Thu May 15, 2014 3:39 pm

Furstentum Liechtenstein wrote:
Seraph wrote:Life almost certainly does exist on other planets. Even if it's true that life on a given planet only has around a one in a 10 trillion chance of occurring through abiogenesis, there is probably at least 100 quintillion different planets in the universe. Life on other planets is rare and sparse from our perspective, probably with no other life forms in our galaxy, however on the scale of the universe as a whole, I'll bet life is quite abundant.
OK...your profile says that you live in Arizona but the evidence shows that you think like a Canadian. y3:-O

You have my sympathy.

FL y=:)
No, that's correct. He "immigrated" to Roswell, NM. Then moved to Arizona. y>-)
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
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Re: Aliens

#109

Post by Furstentum Liechtenstein » Thu May 15, 2014 4:24 pm

RickD wrote: No, that's correct. [Seraph] "immigrated" to Roswell, NM. Then moved to Arizona. y>-)
Ohhhhh...I see! Is his ship at Area 51? Is that why he can't go home?

FL y:-?
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Re: Aliens

#110

Post by RickD » Thu May 15, 2014 4:31 pm

Furstentum Liechtenstein wrote:
RickD wrote: No, that's correct. [Seraph] "immigrated" to Roswell, NM. Then moved to Arizona. y>-)
Ohhhhh...I see! Is his ship at Area 51? Is that why he can't go home?

FL y:-?
Yes. With his ship at Roswell, Seraph has a one in 10 trillion chance of going home.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



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Re: Aliens

#111

Post by Furstentum Liechtenstein » Thu May 15, 2014 4:38 pm

RickD wrote:Yes. With his ship at Roswell, Seraph has a one in 10 trillion chance of going home.
I don't understand why Seraph's chances would be so tiny, I really don't. I saw a documentary entitled E.T. The Extraterrestrial about a traveller like Seraph who was befriended by a little boy. The traveller eventually made it home. There is another documentary series I sometimes study, Stargate SG-1, which shows that we now have the technology to travel to the far reaches of our Galaxy. I think Seraph would do well to look up these documentaries and contact the appropriate Authorities in order to get home soon.

Poor guy. I wish him well. He must be homesick.

FL yp**==
Hold everything lightly. If you don't, it will hurt when God pries your fingers loose as He takes it from you. -Corrie Ten Boom

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Re: Aliens

#112

Post by Philip » Thu May 15, 2014 5:32 pm

What a see-sawing bunch of rabbit trails!

ALIENS, I thought the subject was "A L I E N S!"

Some thoughts - and I've been studying this subject for a VERY long time:

First of all, IF there is life or intelligent life on other planets in our universe, it has nothing at all to do with the odds or the number of star systems and habitable planets. It has ONLY to do with whether or not God put it in other places. And that seems far from certain. Clearly, IF so, He has yet to let us know about them, nor has He clearly prepared us for any eventual contact. And perhaps either He one day will prepare and make us aware of them - OR - they don't exist OR He placed them so far away from us that we will never know of or encounter them - and so knowledge of them is practically unnecessary.

Next is the question of whether there ARE aliens and have they long been visiting us. The fact is that IF aliens exist and they are physical beings, utilizing physical craft subject to the physics and the constant danger presented by the vast billions of catastrophically dangerous and extremely fast moving array of objects inherent throughout the universe, then it is an absolute IMPOSSIBILITY that we have been visited by them. Because the physics and extraordinary number of dangerous objects moving at enormous speeds, from all directions make this impossible. The ability to travel at light speeds over the vast distances required would only make it FAR more and almost instantly, catastrophically dangerous. An aliens craft would be blown to smithereens not far out of the galactic garage - either by hitting an object or it hitting them. So the issue of whether they exist is separate from whether or not they have actually ever visited us. The first could be true or not. The latter, if they are physical entities using physical craft, would be impossible. Now, some want to argue aliens can use crafts that have metaphysical capabilities or that can take use worm-hole shortcuts, etc. But if they have metaphysical capabilities, then we are warping off into the unproven and unscientific - the world in which anything is possible but unproven, if tremendously unlikely.

Yes, if one studies up on what the significant number of CREDIBLE individuals that say they have been abducted, they are telling similar stories and they are NOT good. The aliens described sound dark, scary, evil, that come in the night and take them, do terrifying things to them, and typically produce great fear and anxiety in those having had such experiences. And the people I'm talking about are well-educated, good citizens, normal in every aspect (a far smaller percentage of those reporting such things, yet still representing very significant numbers of people). But they will swear to you that they have had - and often long had - these contact experiences. I think there are very good reasons to believe that they are being deceived by demons. And those that truly believe that who they are seeing are ACTUAL aliens, if they also believe that they have greater knowledge to teach us, enlighten us, etc - in other words, once someone believes they are TRULY aliens - THEN they are ripe for being deceived. Such experiences from credible people sound very much demonic.

Also, especially in Europe, there are organized groups that believe they have long been communicating with aliens. And what they say their communications are sounds very demonic, as many such groups have some type of end-time, rapture-like New Age beliefs that have come from the "aliens." These groups typically believe that these "much more advanced" aliens are here to lead us into a New Age that is to come. And suprisingly, many of them mix Biblical theology - especially from Revelation - with their beliefs. To me, this sounds very demonic. Remember the "Heaven's Gate" group (back in 1997 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heaven%27s ... s_group%29) - these guys were all PhDs who believed a "mothership" following comet Hale-Bopp was coming to rapture them. These were very intelligent, well-educated and highly deceived people who all killed themselves to escape their eartly "shells" to "beam up" to the ship. True stuff! And there are many, many other such organized groups - also often incorporating occult elements.

Finally, especially since the 1940s, we have been inundated with media, book and movie tales of sci-fi, space travel and aliens. A large percentage of Americans not only believe aliens exist but that we are being visited by them. People, against the backdrop of this pop-culture, sci-fi, alien saturation see night after night of alien and UFO show on Discovery and History Channel (and many others), they cite the vast universe and number of galaxies, and they are prone to believing there absolutely "must be other life out there. The point is that whether or not end-time scenarios and schemes by the devil and his cohorts will utilize alien beliefs - perhaps where someone arrives that APPEARS to be an alien, who has "greater wisdom, incredible solutions, answers that earth longs for - well, I can see that as one POSSIBILITY. Why WOULDN'T the devil manipulate and utilize something so widely believed and ingrained in the culture for his deceptive motives, as alien beliefs - I can definitely see that as a possibility. I'm not saying that will definitely happen, but I am saying the prevalent belief in aliens and their visitations make the world ripe for such related deceptions. Any entity that can appear to be something that has supernatural abilities or ones beyond human knowledge and capability, could easily deceive the masses into believing that an "alien has finally arrived." All I'm really saying is that Satan has an enormous tool belt and he will exploit whatever naivete and false beliefs he thinks will be most effective for his purposes.

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Re: Aliens

#113

Post by Seraph » Fri May 16, 2014 9:14 am

RickD wrote: Imagination and evidence are two different things. Can you show me any evidence that life can come from non life to support abiogenesis?

Show me the evidence you have for abiogenesis(life coming from non-life).
No, scientists haven't yet found a direct example of non-life transitioning into life. It's pretty difficult to find evidence of something that occured 5 billion years ago at the cellular level. The evidence is all around that life evolved from single celled organisms though, and there are plenty of hypothetical models of how the first cells came to be. It sounds dangerous for faith if you rest it on the idea that those first cells HAVE to have been created AS THEY WERE by God. It might come crumbling down in the near future.

You seem pretty selective in where you demand evidence in order to believe something. It sounds like a much more extraordinary claim to me that life can only come from life, no matter how far back in the ancestry chain you go, than to say that simple single cellular life could evolve over time from non-living chemical molecules. Viruses, plankton, algae, amoebas, you would need to say that non of those living things could have arisen from non-organic material and were God-breathed as they are. Where is YOUR evidence?

Plus, in my worldview, life DID come from God, abiogenesis and all, just not in the way you think. It arose because of the physical laws in place in the universe, which God is responsible for.
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Re: Aliens

#114

Post by PaulSacramento » Fri May 16, 2014 9:42 am

I do not find it hard to believe that fallen angels would "disguise" themselves as aliens to drive people away from Christ.

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Re: Aliens

#115

Post by Philip » Sat May 17, 2014 7:59 am

Final proof of alien contact: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/ ... omers.html

I totally believe it! :shock:

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Re: Aliens

#116

Post by RickD » Sat May 17, 2014 8:21 am

I have proof that aliens are not demons. ;)

Demons flee by the authority of Jesus' name.

Aliens flee when you shout, "INS!"


8-}2
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



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Re: Aliens

#117

Post by neo-x » Sun May 18, 2014 9:52 pm

It sounds dangerous for faith if you rest it on the idea that those first cells HAVE to have been created AS THEY WERE by God. It might come crumbling down in the near future.
Just wanted to reiterate this. This is important. I am afraid there might be a day when we actually kind of stumble on such a discovery and it might be a blow for some creationist dogma. This has happened before.
It would be a blessing if they missed the cairns and got lost on the way back. Or if
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I could only turn and stare in horror at the chief surgeon.
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Re: Aliens

#118

Post by melanie » Tue May 20, 2014 8:24 am

neo-x wrote:
It sounds dangerous for faith if you rest it on the idea that those first cells HAVE to have been created AS THEY WERE by God. It might come crumbling down in the near future.
Just wanted to reiterate this. This is important. I am afraid there might be a day when we actually kind of stumble on such a discovery and it might be a blow for some creationist dogma. This has happened before.
The Almighty is the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end.
I am afraid that such so-called discoveries is what I have forseen and mean nothing more than a disception and plague upon humanity.
Everything we see, know and behold is that of God.
True believers base our entire faith upon this, regardless upon which creation theology, HE is the inception, creation, driving force and AUTHORITY
We are HIS creation and HIS children.
There is dogma, religious, manmade and self righteous dogma, but not in relation to creation regardless of YEC or otherwise. Move away from humanity being created either way by GOD and you are moving yourself into an area that is not insinct with christianity or of christ.
For he is GOD and created all things. This is why we honour and serve and love HIM.
For he is beginning and end and all and everything inbetween!!

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Re: Aliens

#119

Post by PaulSacramento » Tue May 20, 2014 8:44 am

neo-x wrote:
It sounds dangerous for faith if you rest it on the idea that those first cells HAVE to have been created AS THEY WERE by God. It might come crumbling down in the near future.
Just wanted to reiterate this. This is important. I am afraid there might be a day when we actually kind of stumble on such a discovery and it might be a blow for some creationist dogma. This has happened before.
The bible doesn't speak to us about the details of creation, just a "broad" view.
Ancient man probably cared less about the HOW and more about the WHY.
For us, science ( which is about observing nature) tries to give us the HOW but we must still look to God for the WHY.
In regards to this thread:
I have no problem believe that fallen angels can pass themselves as Aliens, especially if i n doing so they are taking some away from God.
They passed themselves off as gods in the past, but with a generation that doesn't believe in gods, what better than to pass yourself off as a "superior alien race"?

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Re: Aliens

#120

Post by Philip » Wed May 21, 2014 4:50 pm

Now, a book from NASA speculates ... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/ ... rials.html

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