A question...

Discussions on Christian eschatology including different views pertaining to Jesus' second coming, rapture and tribulation, the millennium, and so forth.
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Stu
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A question...

#1

Post by Stu » Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:54 am

Ok so we're all aware of the many end time theories doing the rounds out there.

Right now there is so much info flooding the internet, books, TV shows, etc. surrounding these events, so whether you are Christian or not there's a good chance you've heard about the New World Order and it's plans to implement a new age with them at the helm.

My question is this: Why would anyone actually fall for what they are trying to set in motion if we all already know what's coming? (unless of course you support their agenda)

The "alien invasion" angle seems like the only one left IMO, as a large portion of people probably haven't heard of that yet..
Anyone got any thoughts on Project Blue Beam?

Or am I assuming too much and there are many people who do not know. Naturally less technologically advanced areas like in the Middle-east and certain African countries might fall for their tricks but would the populations of Western countries really not see through their deception?

I'm finding it hard to imagine an end time scenario that would incorporate a "light show" to deceive. Perhaps if people were desperate enough during a worldwide economical meltdown, but I don't know, in this "information age" it's gonna have to be one heck of "show" to pull it off..
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Re: A question...

#2

Post by Ivellious » Thu Feb 02, 2012 12:00 pm

You could ask the same thing about Revelations. We've had practically 2000 years of warning, why the heck should we not see it coming?

I think most "new world order/evil organization" taking over the Earth stories tend to rely on the fact that the leaders of the movement won't be announcing their intentions, or at least not until they've gathered enough power and influence where it's too late to stop them. Think about it; every major leader in recent history came to power through charisma and guile (or a monarchy, but that's different). Trust me, even in the developed world people aren't able to see through a truly brilliant and charismatic force. Even politicians that aren't trying to take over the world are basically having to rely on raw charisma and an ability to distract the masses from their agenda.

Of course, I'm not a believer in any of the ridiculous number of end of the world stories out there. If humanity is threatened by anything in the imminent future, it's ourselves. There are loads of dangerous technologies and environmental factors that we've caused that could wipe us out if the right circumstances are in place. Most of which don't even require anyone to do anything "evil."

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Re: A question...

#3

Post by Stu » Thu Feb 02, 2012 12:37 pm

Ivellious wrote:You could ask the same thing about Revelations. We've had practically 2000 years of warning, why the heck should we not see it coming?

I think most "new world order/evil organization" taking over the Earth stories tend to rely on the fact that the leaders of the movement won't be announcing their intentions, or at least not until they've gathered enough power and influence where it's too late to stop them. Think about it; every major leader in recent history came to power through charisma and guile (or a monarchy, but that's different). Trust me, even in the developed world people aren't able to see through a truly brilliant and charismatic force. Even politicians that aren't trying to take over the world are basically having to rely on raw charisma and an ability to distract the masses from their agenda.
This is slightly different though -- the scale we're talking about here is huge. Seducing your own population (say like Hitler did in Germany) is one thing, but convincing the world (let's limit that to Europe & America) is another.
Of course, I'm not a believer in any of the ridiculous number of end of the world stories out there. If humanity is threatened by anything in the imminent future, it's ourselves. There are loads of dangerous technologies and environmental factors that we've caused that could wipe us out if the right circumstances are in place. Most of which don't even require anyone to do anything "evil."
I'm curious though Ivellious; as you've said, you don't buy into all the conspiracy theories out there, so I'm guessing you are familiar with most of them like the "aliens" scenario where they (the conspirators) fake an alien landing, etc.

So let me throw a hypothetical your way: being that you're aware of what the Bible says and the many stories doing the rounds regarding the end times. How would you react if the things (a man claiming to be the Messiah performing 'miracles', Aliens arrive, signs in the sky, etc.) we (Christians/the Bible) describe actually came to pass?

And no this isn't some trick question, just curious as to how you would process it; tricky one I know as it's quite the reality-altering event to imagine :) Probably similar to how people felt when WWII started, a complete shift in your everyday life / reality.
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Re: A question...

#4

Post by Ivellious » Thu Feb 02, 2012 12:44 pm

Well, again, I'm not denying that the end of the world might come. But I doubt it will be a world terrorist/new world order type organization, more or less for the reasons you stated. It would be a fairly incredible undertaking. The alien landing thing, while I'm not totally fluent on how people think it will happen, seems a little far out. Like, how do you convince all the satellites and space observatories that your "spacecraft" is coming from a million light years away? I just think that it's a bit out there.

again, I'm not totally skeptical of humans leading to the end of our species. If some supernatural thing comes out to destroy us all, I'll obviously have to reconsider that stance haha. Let me just say I don't live my life worrying about stuff like that, though. I figure there's nothing I can really do to avoid it or stop it myself, so I'll cross that bridge if/when it gets here.

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Re: A question...

#5

Post by Ivellious » Thu Feb 02, 2012 12:44 pm

Well, again, I'm not denying that the end of the world might come. But I doubt it will be a world terrorist/new world order type organization, more or less for the reasons you stated. It would be a fairly incredible undertaking. The alien landing thing, while I'm not totally fluent on how people think it will happen, seems a little far out. Like, how do you convince all the satellites and space observatories that your "spacecraft" is coming from a million light years away? I just think that it's a bit out there.

again, I'm not totally skeptical of humans leading to the end of our species. If some supernatural thing comes out to destroy us all, I'll obviously have to reconsider that stance haha. Let me just say I don't live my life worrying about stuff like that, though. I figure there's nothing I can really do to avoid it or stop it myself, so I'll cross that bridge if/when it gets here.

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Re: A question...

#6

Post by Stu » Fri Feb 03, 2012 4:41 am

Ivellious wrote:Well, again, I'm not denying that the end of the world might come. But I doubt it will be a world terrorist/new world order type organization, more or less for the reasons you stated. It would be a fairly incredible undertaking. The alien landing thing, while I'm not totally fluent on how people think it will happen, seems a little far out. Like, how do you convince all the satellites and space observatories that your "spacecraft" is coming from a million light years away? I just think that it's a bit out there.

again, I'm not totally skeptical of humans leading to the end of our species. If some supernatural thing comes out to destroy us all, I'll obviously have to reconsider that stance haha. Let me just say I don't live my life worrying about stuff like that, though. I figure there's nothing I can really do to avoid it or stop it myself, so I'll cross that bridge if/when it gets here.
Yeah, it's something I hope doesn't happen to be quite honest, still got a few things left I want to accomplish in life :) but if it does happen at least I'll be ready..


No one else got any thoughts on this?

How much human interpretation has been woven into these end time theories.

Perhaps it will be a more Western orientated event?
And perhaps it won't be that subtle either; with someone appearing on the "world" stage for a shorter period than might be expected, just long enough to "amaze" a large enough section of people; and then using force as his biggest weapon.
Only when the blood runs and the shackles restrain, will the sheep then awake. When all is lost.

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Re: A question...

#7

Post by Stu » Mon Feb 13, 2012 12:50 am

No one else got any thoughts surrounding this? :(
Only when the blood runs and the shackles restrain, will the sheep then awake. When all is lost.

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Re: A question...

#8

Post by wrain62 » Mon Feb 13, 2012 5:03 am

Stu wrote: Or am I assuming too much and there are many people who do not know. Naturally less technologically advanced areas like in the Middle-east and certain African countries might fall for their tricks but would the populations of Western countries really not see through their deception?
technology as a measure of vulnerability to deception? Please it is people whos eyes are glued to the screen that are vulnerable.
Romans 12:17 Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everybody.

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Re: A question...

#9

Post by Stu » Tue Feb 14, 2012 2:25 pm

wrain62 wrote:technology as a measure of vulnerability to deception? Please it is people whos eyes are glued to the screen that are vulnerable.
Well it depends on the nature of the deception.
Western society has quick and easy access to many sources. Able to research many areas. End of the world scenario's have sky-rocketed in terms of interest recently.

Like I said, I'm not sure what's coming, but I think force will play a larger role than might be expected. One scenario is to throw the world into (a financial and resource) turmoil thereby putting otherwise rational people off-balance. Trying to execute such a "show" under such current stable conditions would be very hard to pull off, while on the other hand desperation under trying times would create a whole new "audience"; with the "suspicions" of days gone by being cast aside or forgotten with a little more ease.
Only when the blood runs and the shackles restrain, will the sheep then awake. When all is lost.

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Re: A question...

#10

Post by Gman » Tue Feb 14, 2012 6:58 pm

Stu wrote:No one else got any thoughts surrounding this? :(
In order to understand the ending you will need to understand the beginning.. Bible history is prophetic, therefore I believe if you study Bible history then events in the end times won't be a surprise for you..

Hope that helps...
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Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, if anything is excellent or praiseworthy, think about such things. -Philippians 4:8

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Re: A question...

#11

Post by Tina » Wed Mar 07, 2012 12:28 pm

I always thought of the end time as a "World War 3" type thing
wars, secret alliances, famine, persecution, etc., and with terrifying changes in nature--volcano eruption, earthquakes, etc.

*also with more dominating government trying to control people, no doubt, even a Christian holocaust
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Re: A question...

#12

Post by Zionist » Sat Mar 10, 2012 2:36 am

here are just a few of my thoughts. i personally feel that people will be voluntary to it to whatever deception that world will face. we must remember that satan is a master of deception and will not make things so obvious that any person will be fooled. remember we know by scripture that jesus spoke the very first words of end times prophecy as see to it that you are not deceived and that then he later stated that false christs and false prophets would deceive if possible even the elect. so if thats the case he is stating that cuz people will be fooled. if you think about it everything is pretty in place for events to happen. people are already so easily fooled and lied to by media and just look at the mind set of people now. everyone is so focused on entertainments and themselves instead of being knowledgeable in the word of God or at the least the things going on around them. remember in amos God said that there would be a famine spread throughout the earth but not a famine of bread nor water but a famine of the word of the lord. from what i gather that would mean that people will not have God's spirit in them nor understand his word so as not to be deceived during those times. in fact christ wasn't the only one to stress the point of not being deceived Paul also did. i have so much more things to add to this but it would take awhile lol. sorry for the rant just end times subjects always interest me.
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Re: A question...

#13

Post by Gman » Sat Mar 10, 2012 8:51 am

Zionist wrote:. remember in amos God said that there would be a famine spread throughout the earth but not a famine of bread nor water but a famine of the word of the lord. from what i gather that would mean that people will not have God's spirit in them nor understand his word so as not to be deceived during those times. in fact christ wasn't the only one to stress the point of not being deceived Paul also did. i have so much more things to add to this but it would take awhile lol. sorry for the rant just end times subjects always interest me.
Interesting zionist.. Sound's like that is the world we live in now.. The Bible for the most part has been turned into a myth by much of the world today. Much of that I believe occurred in the work of "so called" science..
The heart cannot rejoice in what the mind rejects as false - Galileo

We learn from history that we do not learn from history - Georg Friedrich Wilhelm Hegel

Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, if anything is excellent or praiseworthy, think about such things. -Philippians 4:8

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Re: A question...

#14

Post by Zionist » Sat Mar 10, 2012 3:01 pm

i agree Gman. god is being removed from every aspect of life and that is in my opinion how people's love will grow cold which was stated by Yeshua himself. science is of course a great tool for man to understand things around him but it is turning into something it was never meant to be. a blind belief in theories that aren't proven nor can be replicated in a laboratory setting. also contrary to atheistic beliefs even scientists have a degree of faith and believe in things they can't explain nor full understand themselves. funny isn't it?
Our rightousness is of filthy rags and in the eyes of God all have gone astray and nobody is justified under the Law. We are saved by the Grace of God through our faith in Him and in Him who he has sent Jesus Christ alone. There is no other way.

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Re: A question...

#15

Post by seveneyes » Tue Mar 20, 2012 2:43 pm

Stu wrote:No one else got any thoughts surrounding this? :(
Biblical study shows that the Anti-Christ will be a world leader taking power through intrigue and the beast is a group of nations (leaders of those nations) who are aligned with him. A single monetary system goes into effect that requires everyone to use the system in order to buy or sell anything.

This does not at all sound improbable to me. We have the technology in place right now that seems to be leading up to this. People are dazzled by technology and flock to the new developments wearing these them as status symbols among peers. -Who is the one with the puffed up chest in the bank line? The one with the newest cell phone. In the supermarket, people flock to the self check out isles because it is convenient. Direct deposit and online bill pay is swallowed hook line and sinker right now. What happens when we go completely cashless and have smart cards instead of cash? One thing that might happen is that cards will be getting lost, so people will opt for micro chip technology. Possibly the micro chip will be done away with for a simple identifying mark that can be scanned and all of your information including account access and balance, criminal history etc... would be right there. There is the system that if you do not take part in, you will not be able to buy or sell anything, and I have shown how easily it could be swallowed. Convenience and status (peer image). Not to mention that those who didn't want the new technology would be faced with the dilemma of losing their homes and property if they do not take part, but a slow phase in could easily hook most everyone with minor protests to deal with. The secular world already enjoys making Christians and Christian values a laughing stock and anyone else who would have objections would simply be ostracized by society.

As far as dealing with someone who claims to be the Messiah, it is simple for true believers. Prophecy states that when Christ returns he will come with the clouds with all of the holy ones with him. He will not be a man! He will not have a mother or a father! He will not be human and will be recognized as the King of the Angelic procession that all eyes shall see. -If any man claims to be the messiah, do not believe him! Christ came the first time in human form as according to the prophets and we have seen those prophecies fulfilled. The second time he is not coming as a man naturally born. The true believers will hold to this while the world at large will fall headlong into deception because they run from being exposed in the light. They will latch onto anything that sounds good or feels good at the moment. "Where the carcass is, the vultures gather." (my quote is close enough to the actual...)

There you have it. Do not be deceived. Do NOT receive a mark in order to buy or sell! Even if you are convinced that it is not the Mark of the Beast, it still has all things in common with it. If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, it is probably a duck.

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