Since we are speaking of the rapture and the last days, my question was about does G-d confront all the nations who come against Israel in the last days, but I see now that I was as clear as mud, sorry. When you included G-d as those who faced gruesome deaths, you really meant Jesus (the man), didn't you?Gman wrote:All of G-d's prophets faced gruesome deaths.. Including G-d himself. Frankly I don't see how you can get around this.1harpazo wrote: No, no...to my cloud, you know, cloud, not couch! Where in the Bible does it say that they confront their enemies?
Supposing that Zachariah and Elizabeth kept all the commandments and requirements of the Lord, thereby being righteous in G-d's sight (Luke 1:6), upon their deaths, did they go be with the Lord?Gman wrote:Actually the New covenant never replaced the law... The law is still there for us to do, but only what applies Rom. 2:13. But it doesn't justify us, it's there to sanctify us.1harpazo wrote: Really? Luke was wrong in chapter 1 verse 6? Jesus was wrong to tell the ruler to keep the commandments to earn eternal life? Because Abraham believed G-d, it was reckoned to HIM as righteousness. Then came Moses and the Ten Commandments. The Law was still in effect when Jesus was alive, hence Zack and Liz were RIGHTEOUS by keeping the whole law and Jesus told the ruler that he could obtain eternal life if he kept the whole law. Paul wrote Romans under the NEW Covenant of grace. Remember?
So.. Speaking of law, do you stop your car at stop signs? Same thing.
So there is a rapture?Gman wrote:Same thing...1harpazo wrote: Maybe not beaming us, but more like SNATCHING us.
They (the Israelites) were in Goshen? He hid them in their houses? Actually, He supernaturally protected those who obeyed His commands. He couldn't snatch them up, because they had a wilderness to walk through before they arrived at the Promised Land, but I see your point. That being said, Paul wrote that the dead in Christ will rise first (1Thes 4:16) and then we (believers) who are alive (1 Thes 4:17) will be snatched up together with them (the dead in Christ) in the clouds to meet the Lord in the AIR (Gk: aer: breathable air). Thus we will always be with the Lord (whether He's on earth, above it, or in Heaven). This rapture occurs at the Lord's coming (1Thes 4:15).Gman wrote:Ok.. And what happened to those Jews in the Exodus when G-d poured out the plagues out on the Egyptians? Why didn't G-d snatch them up too?1harpazo wrote: I didn't say that we're not going face problems. On the contrary, we're going to be in the midst of the worst tribulation mankind has ever experienced. Jesus is going to snatch us (believers) out of this world just a nano second before He pours out His wrath, vengeance, judgment on all who rejected Him.
Here's the kicker: The church is going to be supernaturally protected and blessed during the 70th week of Daniel-just like the Israelites in Egypt, Noah, the three Hebrews in the fiery furnace, Daniel in the lions' den, etc. There will be persecution and martyrdom during that week, but G-d will give us enough grace to get through it. G-d will be glorified through the church so as to bring multitudes to the Lord during that time.