Pre trib rapture and Ephrem the Syrian

Discussions on Christian eschatology including different views pertaining to Jesus' second coming, rapture and tribulation, the millennium, and so forth.
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DRDS
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Pre trib rapture and Ephrem the Syrian

#1

Post by DRDS » Wed Nov 23, 2011 5:34 am

Hey guys I have a quick question about the pre trib rapture and I specifically want to get the views to this from those of you who are post or mid trib folks.

Personally I'm unsure which view is correct and I'm open to all three of them. Of course for obvious reasons I hope there is a pre trib rapture but I crucially stress for people like me who hope for a pre trib rapture to prepare themselves emotionally, spiritually, mentally and even physically for a mid or post trib rapture.

With that said I want to point you all to this video link here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwGfRnR1-ko

Where prophecy guru Grant Jeffrey (around the 5:00 min mark) talks about evidence within the early church even before John Darby, that talks about or gives hints to, a pre trib rapture.

It's from a manuscript by Ephrem the Syrian. Here is more info about him:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ephrem_the_Syrian

Mostly again for those of you who hold to a mid or post trib rapture or no rapture, I just want to see if you all have heard of this, if this is a common thing you see pre trib rapture folks bring up and how do you all respond to it?

Anyway, thank you all for your time.

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Re: Pre trib rapture and Ephrem the Syrian

#2

Post by neo-x » Wed Nov 23, 2011 5:45 am

SHORT ANSWER, SAVING HUNDREDS OF WORDS.

NO ONE KNOWS, NO ONE CAN KNOW UNTIL THAT TIME COMES. PRE-TRIB OR POST-TRIB, IT IS A WILD GOOSE CHASE EITHER WAY.

DON'T MIND THE CAPS, FORGOT TO TURN IT OFF.
It would be a blessing if they missed the cairns and got lost on the way back. Or if
the Thing on the ice got them tonight.

I could only turn and stare in horror at the chief surgeon.
Death by starvation is a terrible thing, Goodsir, continued Stanley.
And with that we went below to the flame-flickering Darkness of the lower deck
and to a cold almost the equal of the Dante-esque Ninth Circle Arctic Night
without.


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Re: Pre trib rapture and Ephrem the Syrian

#3

Post by B. W. » Wed Nov 23, 2011 4:44 pm

DRDS wrote:Hey guys I have a quick question about the pre trib rapture and I specifically want to get the views to this from those of you who are post or mid trib folks.

Personally I'm unsure which view is correct and I'm open to all three of them. Of course for obvious reasons I hope there is a pre trib rapture but I crucially stress for people like me who hope for a pre trib rapture to prepare themselves emotionally, spiritually, mentally and even physically for a mid or post trib rapture.

With that said I want to point you all to this video link here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwGfRnR1-ko

Where prophecy guru Grant Jeffrey (around the 5:00 min mark) talks about evidence within the early church even before John Darby, that talks about or gives hints to, a pre trib rapture.

It's from a manuscript by Ephrem the Syrian. Here is more info about him:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ephrem_the_Syrian

Mostly again for those of you who hold to a mid or post trib rapture or no rapture, I just want to see if you all have heard of this, if this is a common thing you see pre trib rapture folks bring up and how do you all respond to it?

Anyway, thank you all for your time.
Thanks for the link about Ephrem the Syrian, I have not heard about him before - sounds interesting to look into some of his writings...

As for pre-trib - if so - we're outa here :cloud9:
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Re: Pre trib rapture and Ephrem the Syrian

#4

Post by 1harpazo » Sun Nov 27, 2011 7:46 am

neo-x wrote:SHORT ANSWER, SAVING HUNDREDS OF WORDS.

NO ONE KNOWS, NO ONE CAN KNOW UNTIL THAT TIME COMES. PRE-TRIB OR POST-TRIB, IT IS A WILD GOOSE CHASE EITHER WAY.

DON'T MIND THE CAPS, FORGOT TO TURN IT OFF.
Luke 17:26-35
26 "And just as it happened in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man: 27 they were eating, they were drinking, they were marrying, they were being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all. 28 "It was the same as happened in the days of Lot: they were eating, they were drinking, they were buying, they were selling, they were planting, they were building; 29 but on the day that Lot went out from Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven and destroyed them all. 30 "It will be just the same on the day that the Son of Man is revealed. 31 "On that day, the one who is on the housetop and whose goods are in the house must not go down to take them out; and likewise the one who is in the field must not turn back. 32 "Remember Lot's wife. 33 "Whoever seeks to keep his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it. 34 "I tell you, on that night there will be two in one bed; one will be taken and the other will be left. 35 "There will be two women grinding at the same place; one will be taken and the other will be left.
NASU

Which day was Jesus talking about in verse 31and following in which one is taken and one is left in His two examples? Notice that God's judgment begins on the same day that Noah entered the ark and Lot left Sodom. Once God's judgment starts, all are destroyed.

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Re: Pre trib rapture and Ephrem the Syrian

#5

Post by dayage » Sun Jan 01, 2012 7:16 pm

I looked around and found this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apocalypse ... do-Ephraem

My study shows that Ephriam taught that the rapture happens at Christ's 2nd coming

Pre-tribulation?
Irenaeus (115-202) – Against Heresies, bk. 5, ch. 29, #1-2, ch. 31, #2

Post-tribulation
Methodius (?-311) – Banquet of the Ten Virgins, Discourse 6, ch. 4
Ephraim (306-373) – Hymns on the Nativity, Hymn 1; Hymn 17, #11
Cyril (315-386) – Catechetical Lectures, Lecture 15, #18-22
John Chrysostom (374-407) – Homilies on First Thessalonians, Homily 8; Homilies on Second Timothy, Homily 8
St. Augustine (354-430) – City of God, bk. 20, ch. 20

Timing not given
Gregory of Nyssa (330-394) – Against Eunomius, bk. 12, #1

Sources
http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/index.html
http://www.ccel.org/fathers.html

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Re: Pre trib rapture and Ephrem the Syrian

#6

Post by puritan lad » Sun Jan 01, 2012 8:20 pm

dayage is partially correct. Pseudo-Ephriam (is it very much debatable if E of S actually wrote this) places the "rapture" at the second advent.

Ireneaus, however, did not teach a pre-trib rapture. The pre-trib rapture doctrine was invented in the early 1800's by a Scottish psychic named Margeret MacDonald. It was introduced into Christianity by John Nelson Darby and the Plymouth Brethren. It does not appear in church history prior to the 1820s.

Don't know about the rest of the "post trib" list. but several of those are Post mill.
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Re: Pre trib rapture and Ephrem the Syrian

#7

Post by dayage » Sun Jan 01, 2012 10:21 pm

puritan,
I was only discussing the rapture views, not the mill. views. If you notice, I put a question mark by Ireneaus and gave the exact references where the info could be found.

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