puritan lad wrote: 1harpazo wrote: puritan lad wrote:
Yes. That age did end in 70 AD.
If the end of the age has NOT occurred, then neither has the coming of the Son of Man. If Matt 24:29,30,31 has not been fulfilled, then neither has Matt 10:23 and Matt 16:27,28.
Then some is Jesus' audience must still be alive, and the apostles are still going through the cities of Israel? Interesting.
In light of Matt 10:23, what's your take on Matt 24:14: "This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come."? The end (Matt 24:6,13) refers the end of the age and the end comes before the coming of the Son of Man.
"but has now been disclosed and through the prophetic writings has been made known to all nations, according to the command of the eternal God, to bring about the obedience of faith--"
Please note the answer Fulfilled
also refers to 1harpazo’s question:
1harpazo wrote:If the end of the age has NOT occurred, then neither has the coming of the Son of Man. If Matt 24:29,30,31 has not been fulfilled, then neither has Matt 10:23 and Matt 16:27,28.
Matt 24:29,30,31 - likewise accord to the answer provided as ‘Fulfilled
’ as so stated regarding Matt 24:29,30,31c...
Then I responded:
B. W. wrote:Matthew 24:29, 30, 31c,"Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other." NKJV
Then verse 31 happened and, well therefore, PL, preterist and every other Christian has been left behind. Also, the events as described in verse 29 and 30 would have been recorded worldwide at that time. The Chinese, nor other nations make no mention of "the sun darkened, and the moon not giving its light; the stars falling from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shaken" during that time period.
Jlay then asks...
jlay wrote:Alright. So help him out. That seems like a reasonable question.
So here are the questions again:
If Matt 24:29,30,31 was fulfilled in 70 AD, then where is the empirical data worldwide for such event including the data of morning / seeing described in verse 30 and why does the sun and moon, and stars still remain aloft if in 70 AD they fell and moon will not give its light (verse 29)?
These are reasonable questions…as Jlay pointed out… in light of answer Fulfilled
leading to the Romans 16 quote...
Next: Regarding Romans 16:26 as a proof text for Preterism
Let us not forget the verses around the text (Romans 16:25, 26, 27c). As well as also noting the original word order of the context of how the doxology reads:
"25 Now to the one being able establish you according to the good news of me and the proclamation of Jesus Christ according (the) Revelation of (the) mystery in times eternal having been kept secret
26 Manifested but now and through prophetic-scriptures according to a command of the Eternal Father for obedience of faith to all the gentiles known having been (having been known)
27 only wise to God through Jesus Christ.
" Romans 16:25-27 –
Quoted From Noveum Testamentum 27 - The New Greek New Testament
Romans 16:25-27 from the LITV reads: "Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel, and the proclaiming of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery having been kept unvoiced during eternal times, 26 but now has been made plain, and by prophetic Scriptures, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known for obedience of faith to all the nations; 27 to the only wise God through Jesus Christ, to whom be the glory forever. Amen.
The LITV captures the Greek pretty well the meaning of the text as: 'commandment of the everlasting God, made known for obedience of faith to all the nations
…not as implying: 'commandment of the eternal God, has been made known to all the nations...
See the difference?
Add to that - gentiles 'having been known' implies more with predestination mentioned in Romans 8:29, 30c than a proof text for Preterism.
Look at the Noveum Testamentum 27 again and the word order if you still do not get it:
"Now to the one being able establish you according to the good news of me and the proclamation of Jesus Christ according (the) Revelation of (the) mystery in times eternal having been kept secret Manifested but now and through prophetic-scriptures according to a command of the Eternal Father for obedience of faith to all the gentiles known having been (having been known) (to) only wise God through Jesus Christ.
" Romans 16:25-27 - NT 27
Conclusion: Romans 16:26 is a poor proof text for Preterism but a good one for biblically based predestination of Romans 8:29-30c.
P.S. - You know, there was a full moon not too long ago, anyone else seen the moon lately - does the moon still give light? Again Rev 21:23c gives clear clue to when such event occurs mentioned in Matt 24:29 (and that verse has not happened yet)