REV 11:1-2

Discussions on Christian eschatology including different views pertaining to Jesus' second coming, rapture and tribulation, the millennium, and so forth.
waynebo
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REV 11:1-2

#1

Post by waynebo » Sun Dec 28, 2008 5:56 pm

What is your take on this,i see it as the Churh being raptured at that point in time? y:-?

REV11:1-2
1 Then I was given a measuring rod like a staff and I was told, "Come and measure the temple of God and the altar, and count those who are worshiping in it.
2
But exclude the outer court 2 of the temple; do not measure it, for it has been handed over to the Gentiles, who will trample the holy city for forty-two months.

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Re: REV 11:1-2

#2

Post by JCSx2 » Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:45 am

That sounds like Rapture / Tribulation.

Here are more Rapture verses for you to look at.

John 14:1-3
1 “Let not your heart be troubled; you believe in God, believe also in Me. 2 In My Father's house are many mansions;[a] if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also.

1 COR7-8
7 so that you come short in no gift, eagerly waiting for the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ, 8 who will also confirm you to the end, that you may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ

1 COR 15:51-53
51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

Phil 3:20-21
20 For our citizenship is in heaven, from which we also eagerly wait for the Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, 21 who will transform our lowly body that it may be conformed to His glorious body, according to the working by which He is able even to subdue all things to Himself.

Phil 4:5
5 Let your gentleness be known to all men. The Lord is at hand.

COL 3:4
4 When Christ who is our life appears, then you also will appear with Him in glory.

1 Thes 1:10
10 and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come.

1 Thes 2:19
19 For what is our hope, or joy, or crown of rejoicing? Is it not even you in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at His coming?

1 Thes 4:13-18
13 But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.
15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

1 Thes 5:9,23
9 For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ
23 Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ

2 Tim 6:14
that you keep this commandment without spot, blameless until our Lord Jesus Christ's appearing


2 Tim 4:1,8
1 I charge you therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead at[a] His appearing and His kingdom

8 Finally, there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will give to me on that Day, and not to me only but also to all who have loved His appearing.

Titus 2:13
13 looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ

Heb 9:28
28 so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.

James 5:7-9
7 Therefore be patient, brethren, until the coming of the Lord. See how the farmer waits for the precious fruit of the earth, waiting patiently for it until it receives the early and latter rain. 8 You also be patient. Establish your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is at hand.
9 Do not grumble against one another, brethren, lest you be condemned.[c] Behold, the Judge is standing at the door!

1 Peter 1:7, 13
7 that the genuineness of your faith, being much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ

13 Therefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and rest your hope fully upon the grace that is to be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ

1 Peter 5:4
and when the Chief Shepherd appears, you will receive the crown of glory that does not fade away.

1 John 2:28-3:2
28 And now, little children, abide in Him, that when[f] He appears, we may have confidence and not be ashamed before Him at His coming. 29 If you know that He is righteous, you know that everyone who practices righteousness is born of Him. 1 Behold what manner of love the Father has bestowed on us, that we should be called children of God![a] Therefore the world does not know us, because it did not know Him. 2 Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is

Revelation 2:25
25 But hold fast what you have till I come.

Revelation 3:10
10 Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.
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waynebo
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Re: REV 11:1-2

#3

Post by waynebo » Fri Jan 02, 2009 7:34 pm

Matthew 24:29-31
29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. :amen:

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Re: REV 11:1-2

#4

Post by JCSx2 » Sat Jan 03, 2009 6:50 am

waynebo wrote:Matthew 24:29-31
29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. :amen:
Of course, cannot over look the Olivet discourse, nice add..

peace
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Re: REV 11:1-2

#5

Post by waynebo » Sat Jan 03, 2009 2:22 pm

To me this all points to a mid-tribe rapture,i guess thats my take :amen:

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Re: REV 11:1-2

#6

Post by Davidjayjordan » Sun Jan 11, 2009 10:25 pm

We have TWO CHRISTIAN prophets as obviously they are not reincarnated neither newbies to the religion, but have learned faith through their lives as Christians and these two shall lead Christians.... to Petra as the Lord said.....

Of course we are not raptured, we have a mission and a purpose not just living comfortably and then getting raptured comfortably. real Christians will fight on through the Great trib, most of us making it to the End. Then the Lord shall rescue us after we have fought and died for him. Nevertheless the church says they will get raptured before hand before ever serving him or sacrificing for HIM

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Re: REV 11:1-2

#7

Post by ugo » Mon Jan 12, 2009 4:31 am

Pre-trib people.
How else will the people of the earth know about the Church and how much God has done with her?
The chaos that ensures will be untterly horrific.
The ones left behind will knwo the truth and millions will come to faith along with the 144,000 Jews who will witness for Christ along with the two witnesses.

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Re: REV 11:1-2

#8

Post by Davidjayjordan » Mon Jan 12, 2009 6:10 pm

ugo wrote:.
How else will the people of the earth know about the Church and how much God has done with her? (Yes, but do use the term Jesus, as God is very generic and is not as powerful)
The chaos that ensures will be untterly horrific.(NO only one third strength, but they deserve what they get as all will have taken the MARK. The Lord is fair and just, and takes care of his own, even if it be in death)
The ones left behind will knwo the truth and millions will come to faith along with the 144,000 Jews who will witness for Christ along with the two witnesses.
(Nah, the Jews are out of the picture and if they a few do finnally receive the Lord, they will be newbie Christians and will not have established much faith in the Lord. Our Witnesses are Christian and not Jewish, anything else makes absolutely no sense. The End Time concerns Christianity not6 a fulfillment of Judiasm, they missed that chance centuries ago or in their own lifetimes. We can witness to them but the majority of them like church people want power not the love and humility Jesus showed at His first COMING. For they miss the power of love and FAITH that Jesus can truly give. But we can;t and won't.

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Re: REV 11:1-2

#9

Post by JCSx2 » Mon Jan 12, 2009 6:23 pm

Davidjayjordan wrote:
ugo wrote:.
How else will the people of the earth know about the Church and how much God has done with her? (Yes, but do use the term Jesus, as God is very generic and is not as powerful)
The chaos that ensures will be untterly horrific.(NO only one third strength, but they deserve what they get as all will have taken the MARK. The Lord is fair and just, and takes care of his own, even if it be in death)
The ones left behind will knwo the truth and millions will come to faith along with the 144,000 Jews who will witness for Christ along with the two witnesses.
(Nah, the Jews are out of the picture and if they a few do finnally receive the Lord, they will be newbie Christians and will not have established much faith in the Lord. Our Witnesses are Christian and not Jewish, anything else makes absolutely no sense. The End Time concerns Christianity not6 a fulfillment of Judiasm, they missed that chance centuries ago or in their own lifetimes. We can witness to them but the majority of them like church people want power not the love and humility Jesus showed at His first COMING. For they miss the power of love and FAITH that Jesus can truly give. But we can;t and won't.
Read REV 7, it is specifically talking about 144,000 Jews that convert and accept Jesus as the Messiah.

Revelation 7

1 After these things I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, on the sea, or on any tree. 2 Then I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God. And he cried with a loud voice to the four angels to whom it was granted to harm the earth and the sea, 3 saying, “Do not harm the earth, the sea, or the trees till we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads.” 4 And I heard the number of those who were sealed. One hundred and forty-four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel were sealed:
5 of the tribe of Judah twelve thousand were sealed;[a]
of the tribe of Reuben twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Gad twelve thousand were sealed;
6 of the tribe of Asher twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Naphtali twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Manasseh twelve thousand were sealed;
7 of the tribe of Simeon twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Levi twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Issachar twelve thousand were sealed;
8 of the tribe of Zebulun twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Joseph twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Benjamin twelve thousand were sealed.
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Re: REV 11:1-2

#10

Post by Davidjayjordan » Mon Jan 12, 2009 10:29 pm

Sorry Bro, no where does it say they are Jews that finnally eventually wake up to the reality of JESUS< the one and ONLY Messiah. Yes, we are put in tribes, as our past brethren of FAITH, for we are the ultimate fulfillment of all FAITH. We have learned from the Lord and have a history of FAITH, and therefiore we are gathered and not a bunch of worldly Jews. We have the tabernacle, we have the priesthood, we have the annointing and we have the TWO CHRISTIAN WITNERSSES who hear from the Lord and speak the Lord's words.

Newbie Jews do not learn overnight faith after decades and years of denial. Think Christian Bro, rather than past tense Judiasm that was left behind. Jesus leads Christians not Jews. If a few receive him they are called Christians no longer Jews. Its always been choice and it will remain choice in the future, for all nationalities shall be involved in the LAST GATHERING and encampment of the Lord.

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Re: REV 11:1-2

#11

Post by waynebo » Tue Jan 13, 2009 5:11 pm

Speaking of the 144,000 i beleive,may be wrong but the are the first born males from the Exodus.

Exodus 13:15 And it came to pass, when Pharaoh would hardly let us go, that the LORD slew all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both the firstborn of man, and the firstborn of beast: therefore I sacrifice to the LORD all that openeth the matrix, being males; but all the firstborn of "my children I redeem".

REV 14 1Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father's name written on their foreheads. 2And I heard a sound from heaven like the roar of rushing waters and like a loud peal of thunder. The sound I heard was like that of harpists playing their harps. 3And they sang a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders. No one could learn the song except the 144,000 who had been "redeemed from the earth". 4These are those who did not defile themselves with women, for they kept themselves pure. They follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They were purchased from among men and offered as firstfruits to God and the Lamb. 5No lie was found in their mouths; they are blameless
Last edited by waynebo on Sun Jan 18, 2009 5:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: REV 11:1-2

#12

Post by Davidjayjordan » Tue Jan 13, 2009 10:20 pm

well bro, I would say the only way they could be blameless is to have followed the Lamb wheresoever He goeth, and the only way they could be virgins is if they were not fornicating with the whorish system, of commercailism and nationalism and patriotism and its wars...

They having the Lord as their first love, they being the Bride of Christ which is explained so much in the Old testament and New testament. These are the 144,000 of every country and every nationality because they have chosen the chosen one..JESUS.

http://www.geocities.com/davidjayjordan/144000.html

With these gathered at Petra, the Lord has His bride in One place and they are ONE and they fight as ONE.....

http://www.geocities.com/davidjayjordan ... tinOT.html

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Re: REV 11:1-2

#13

Post by ugo » Tue Jan 13, 2009 11:29 pm

The jews are not left behind as God made many promises for them.
God always keeps His promises.
"Newbie Jews do not learn overnight faith after decades and years of denial"
Are you saying God cannot do this work in them?
Do not limit your Father in heaven.
You can grow in faith but your faith initialy is not learnt. It is given.

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Re: REV 11:1-2

#14

Post by waynebo » Wed Jan 14, 2009 10:39 am

Did they not follow God as a cloud in the sky for many years,and they had many first born during those times.Anyway its just a correlation i thought was interesting,wayne :wave:

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Re: REV 11:1-2

#15

Post by B. W. » Wed Jan 14, 2009 10:52 am

Davidjayjordan wrote:Sorry Bro, no where does it say they are Jews that finnally eventually wake up to the reality of JESUS< the one and ONLY Messiah. Yes, we are put in tribes, as our past brethren of FAITH, for we are the ultimate fulfillment of all FAITH. We have learned from the Lord and have a history of FAITH, and therefiore we are gathered and not a bunch of worldly Jews. We have the tabernacle, we have the priesthood, we have the annointing and we have the TWO CHRISTIAN WITNERSSES who hear from the Lord and speak the Lord's words.

Newbie Jews do not learn overnight faith after decades and years of denial. Think Christian Bro, rather than past tense Judiasm that was left behind. Jesus leads Christians not Jews. If a few receive him they are called Christians no longer Jews. Its always been choice and it will remain choice in the future, for all nationalities shall be involved in the LAST GATHERING and encampment of the Lord.
Romans 11 (New King James Version)

Romans 11

Israel's Rejection Not Total

1 I say then, has God cast away His people? Certainly not! For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God has not cast away His people whom He foreknew. Or do you not know what the Scripture says of Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel, saying, 3 “LORD, they have killed Your prophets and torn down Your altars, and I alone am left, and they seek my life”? 4 But what does the divine response say to him? “I have reserved for Myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal.” 5 Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace. 6 And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work. 7 What then? Israel has not obtained what it seeks; but the elect have obtained it, and the rest were blinded. 8 Just as it is written:

“ God has given them a spirit of stupor,
Eyes that they should not see
And ears that they should not hear,
To this very day.”

9 And David says:

“ Let their table become a snare and a trap,
A stumbling block and a recompense to them.
10 Let their eyes be darkened, so that they do not see,
And bow down their back always.”

Israel's Rejection Not Final

11 I say then, have they stumbled that they should fall? Certainly not! But through their fall, to provoke them to jealousy, salvation has come to the Gentiles. 12 Now if their fall is riches for the world, and their failure riches for the Gentiles, how much more their fullness! 13 For I speak to you Gentiles; inasmuch as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry, 14 if by any means I may provoke to jealousy those who are my flesh and save some of them. 15 For if their being cast away is the reconciling of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?....on to verse 25....

25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:

“ The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
27 For this is My covenant with them,
When I take away their sins.”

Now on too next bible passage:

Zechariah 12 (New King James Version)

Zechariah 12

7 “The LORD will save the tents of Judah first, so that the glory of the house of David and the glory of the inhabitants of Jerusalem shall not become greater than that of Judah. 8 In that day the LORD will defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; the one who is feeble among them in that day shall be like David, and the house of David shall be like God, like the Angel of the LORD before them. 9 It shall be in that day that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.

Mourning for the Pierced One

10 “And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn.

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Sorry David-jay-jordan the Bible does not aggree with you!!!!
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