On keeping the Sabbath

Discussions on Christian eschatology including different views pertaining to Jesus' second coming, rapture and tribulation, the millennium, and so forth.
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On keeping the Sabbath

#1

Post by Anonymous » Thu Jan 20, 2005 8:59 am

I've spent many hours in this site and find it very interesting but I find little reference to the Sabbath. After studying Daniel and Revelation for many years the importance of the Sabbath cannot be underestimated. The Sabbath, according to Genesis, was created as a memorial to creation , that we should remember and reflect on our relationship with God on a regular basis. ANd since "the evening and the morning" are given as one DAY,not age, I believe creation was done in exactly the 6 days the Bible describes, not over ages to satisfy science.I rather suspect God has little respect for the feeble attempts of mankind to explain the nature of His universe.Also, Jesus kept the Sabbath. One would assume He knew the commandments and followed them,as it is stated He never sinned. He also said that the laws were not to be changed. Nowhere does the Bible say that the law was done away with because He was here.Therefore why is there not more emphasis on keeping the Sabbath of God? The seventh day of the week belongs to God and we are to rest from our own work and dedicate the day to God as the commandment says.

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#2

Post by Mastermind » Thu Jan 20, 2005 10:50 am

I fail to see how "the evening and the morning" makes it a literal day. Does it say it was made between evening and morning? In fact, the time between evening and morning isn't even day, it's night. As for the law not being done away with, it makes no difference to me(although it is the general consensus that the law WAS fulfilled, and there are plenty of pages on this site that explain why). The law was given to Israel. I'm not jewish so I really couldn't care less. The only law I have to keep is that of Jesus.

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#3

Post by Anonymous » Thu Jan 20, 2005 2:54 pm

The law of Jesus? Jesus was a Jew in case you forgot. And he told Gentiles and everyone else to keep the laws, not just the Jews. What laws do you suppose he meant?Undoubtly the laws passed down from the fathers of the nation, Abraham and Moses,etc.The same 10 commandments.
As for "the evening and the morning", you should read Genesis1:5. I would say that makes it pretty plain.A period of darkness followed by a period of light, hence, "evening" and "morning", equalling one day. The idea of a day beginning at midnight is a very recent phenomena in history and of a secular nature.
As well I choose to believe the WHOLE Bible, not just the passages that I like.If one part was inspired by God then so was the rest. I realize a lot of the Bible makes a lot of us uncomfortable because many are unwilling to give up things they perceive as ok rather than giving God complete obedience.

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#4

Post by Mastermind » Thu Jan 20, 2005 4:25 pm

Before I answer your questions, do you stone people to death for wearing clothes that are made out of more than one material? Do you stone to death people who get haircuts? Because if you don't, you're a hypocrite.

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#5

Post by Anonymous » Thu Jan 20, 2005 4:38 pm

No I certainly don't stone anyone and neither did Jesus.I wasn't refering to the set of laws in Deuteronomy that governed the rituals and food practices of the children of Israel, I was referring to the 10 commandments. And I wasn't aware that I asked you any questions. Please don't distort my every comment

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#6

Post by Mastermind » Thu Jan 20, 2005 4:52 pm

SabbathKeeper wrote:No I certainly don't stone anyone and neither did Jesus.I wasn't refering to the set of laws in Deuteronomy that governed the rituals and food practices of the children of Israel, I was referring to the 10 commandments. And I wasn't aware that I asked you any questions. Please don't distort my every comment

You're digging yourself deeper. Abraham had nothing to do with the ten commandments, yet you mention him. Since you did mention Abraham, I assumed you were talking about all of the old laws.

Now, the direct translation from Hebrew to English is not ""the evening and the morning, the third day", it is ""the evening and the morning, a third day." All of this can be found on this site, with explanations and translations from the original hebrew texts. You will also notice that the seventh day does not have this phrase, which is why many believe we are still in the seventh day. The sabbath is the symbol of the Day of Man, and I still keep it out of respect. But like Jesus said, "The Sabbath was made for man, not man for Sabbath". By the way bringing up these points does nothing, as they have both been discussed to death, and in addition have their own explanation on the site(which you should read, and if you have a problem with its logic, bring that up).

As for you not asking me any questions, there are at least 2 question marks in your statement, so unless you have really bad grammar, you DID ask me something.

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Re: On keeping the Sabbath

#7

Post by BavarianWheels » Thu Jan 20, 2005 6:07 pm

SabbathKeeper wrote:I've spent many hours in this site and find it very interesting but I find little reference to the Sabbath. After studying Daniel and Revelation for many years the importance of the Sabbath cannot be underestimated. The Sabbath, according to Genesis, was created as a memorial to creation , that we should remember and reflect on our relationship with God on a regular basis. ANd since "the evening and the morning" are given as one DAY,not age, I believe creation was done in exactly the 6 days the Bible describes, not over ages to satisfy science.I rather suspect God has little respect for the feeble attempts of mankind to explain the nature of His universe.Also, Jesus kept the Sabbath. One would assume He knew the commandments and followed them,as it is stated He never sinned. He also said that the laws were not to be changed. Nowhere does the Bible say that the law was done away with because He was here.Therefore why is there not more emphasis on keeping the Sabbath of God? The seventh day of the week belongs to God and we are to rest from our own work and dedicate the day to God as the commandment says.
As a fellow believer in the Sabbath...I don't hold to the literal 6-24hr days of creation. First and most simply...the earth was formless...(Gen. 1:2)

Second, the sun and moon were not created or put in place until the "fourth day" of creation...what made the "evening and morning" prior?

Many more reasons...these are just the tip of the iceberg...so to speak.

I don't think God created man with a mind capable of understanding everything...but I do believe God created man with a mind capable of understanding some things...one being that there is much more evidence for creation not being 6-24hr days...than there is for it. Even the scriptures speak of days being like a thousand years and a thousand years being like a day.

It's always amazing to me how people can remain in ignorance in spite of evidence. There are still some that believe the earth is flat too...they are called "The Flat Earth Society" or something to that effect...google it.
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Jac3510
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#8

Post by Jac3510 » Thu Jan 20, 2005 7:24 pm

Hey SK . . .

There are several points in your post I could take exception to, but let me just respond to your primary question, which, as I understood it, was why there is little to no emphasis on keeping the sabbath.

The short answer is that Rich (and most of people at these boards, not to mention the vast majority of the Christian community throughout the past two thousand years) recognizes that the law to keep the sabbath is, like the rest of the Mosaic Law, no longer binding on the Christian. Rather, as the author of Hebrews states, every day is a day of rest, and we are to keep every day as unto the Lord (see Hebrews 4:3-10, in context of Hebrews 3:1-4:11. See also Col. 3:17).

Needless to say, you will disagree with this assessment, but, given for the moment its validity, it follows that the Christians are not obligated to "keep the sabbath" as recorded by OT law.

Obviously, I've not offered a major defense for this position. For what it is worth, I had a SDA tell one of my youth that he was going to hell because he went to church on Sunday and not Saturday. I recognize that this is an extreme position, and I doubt (and sincerely hope) that it is not reflective of your own. Regardless, I'm sure you can understand why he (Jacob, my youth) was extremely upset. To make matters worse, the individual making these claims had written an entire paper specifically to show Jacob the error of his ways. He read it and was unable to respond to the claims, so he brought it to me. I researched the arguments thoroughly and wrote a complete rebuttal paper, much to Jacob's delight. The SDA refused to further comment, but has sense left him alone.

The reason I tell you this is to make you aware that I am well versed in the arguments as to why we should keep the sabbath. I hope to expand my brief paper eventually into a short booklet, as now it is a reply and thus, without the original paper, may not be as universal as we would like. If, though, you would like to read it, it is available in .pdf format. PM me, and I'll send it to you via email.

tl;dr: the reason there is no emphasis on the site for keeping the sabbath is that we believe it is not necessary. Further, we believe it is false doctrine to assert that it is.

God bless
Proinsias wrote:I don't think you are hearing me. Preference for ice cream is a moral issue
And that, brothers and sisters, is the kind of foolishness you get people who insist on denying biblical theism. A good illustration of any as the length people will go to avoid acknowledging basic truths.

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#9

Post by BavarianWheels » Fri Jan 21, 2005 5:36 pm

Jac3510 wrote:The short answer is that Rich (and most of people at these boards, not to mention the vast majority of the Christian community throughout the past two thousand years) recognizes that the law to keep the sabbath is, like the rest of the Mosaic Law, no longer binding on the Christian. Rather, as the author of Hebrews states, every day is a day of rest, and we are to keep every day as unto the Lord (see Hebrews 4:3-10, in context of Hebrews 3:1-4:11. See also Col. 3:17).
And as you might know...my first statement is: Jac3510, you know you do not stand true to this statement as you wouldn't say murder is done away with. You cannot as you would find anyone an untrue Christian if one were to go to your home, rape and kill your wife and daughter(s)...and stole your car.

You do not stand by your statement 100%...you can't.

Besides, the 10 are not "Mosaic" laws...God wrote them with his own finger...and God does not change.
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#10

Post by Mastermind » Fri Jan 21, 2005 11:35 pm

BW, why the hell do you keep bringing up murder? I'm pretty damn sure Jesus said it was wrong already, so mosaic law or not, it's forbidden.

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#11

Post by BavarianWheels » Sat Jan 22, 2005 7:42 pm

Mastermind wrote:BW, why the hell do you keep bringing up murder? I'm pretty damn sure Jesus said it was wrong already, so mosaic law or not, it's forbidden.
Try reading Jac3510's words about "no longer binding to the Christian"...maybe you'll get the point then?

Law against murder is part of the "Mosaic" law...well, Jac3510 and most other Christians call it the "Mosaic Law" in an attempt to abolish the one commandment they don't like to hear.

However, they seem to miss that the Sabbath was established way back at creation...when there were no Jews anywhere on the face of the earth...plus Christ himself said, "The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath." From my apparently limited education...Man is not spelled J-E-W. (*just some sarcasm*) :)

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#12

Post by Mastermind » Sun Jan 23, 2005 11:17 am

Going on the same line of thought, you bringing up murder is equally dumb since Cain was around before the mosaic law as well and God still got pissed when he killed his brother. ;)

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#13

Post by BavarianWheels » Sun Jan 23, 2005 8:54 pm

Mastermind wrote:Going on the same line of thought, you bringing up murder is equally dumb since Cain was around before the mosaic law as well and God still got pissed when he killed his brother. ;)
That's very perceptive of you!! That means law has been around a lot longer than Exodus 20.

So this only goes to help prove my point.
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#14

Post by Kurieuo » Sun Jan 23, 2005 9:50 pm

BavarianWheels wrote:However, they seem to miss that the Sabbath was established way back at creation...when there were no Jews anywhere on the face of the earth...plus Christ himself said, "The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath." From my apparently limited education...Man is not spelled J-E-W. (*just some sarcasm*) :)
Firstly BW, just so you don't feel like I'm attacking... I think if one feels as strongly as you do about keeping the Sabbath, to the extent that breaking it would strongly weigh against their conscience and impact upon their relationship with God, that they should keep it. Therefore I'd commend you on keeping it, as it is really all for God in the end.

Now, onto the theology side of things, should "all" keep the Sabbath? For me, I see no clear reason why I should for it seems of the same order to me as being circumcised or keeping kosher. You state it was established way back at creation, but this is not entirely correct. The standard God set up for humanity to follow, of work than rest, was obviously always there for all to see. On the other hand, the example wasn't legally binding until the Mosaic laws were setup for Israel.

Now let me agree for a moment that the Sabbath was indeed instituted to be kept (rather than serving just as an example) from the very beginning, in the form that it was given to Israel. Now the punishment also given to Israel for someone who defiles or breaks the Sabbath is death (Exodus 31:14). So just as you believe one should be legally bound to keep the Sabbath, should we not also continue to carry out the punishments God also set for those who break the Sabbath?

Kurieuo.
"Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved." (Romans 10:13)

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#15

Post by Mastermind » Mon Jan 24, 2005 3:44 pm

BavarianWheels wrote:
Mastermind wrote:Going on the same line of thought, you bringing up murder is equally dumb since Cain was around before the mosaic law as well and God still got pissed when he killed his brother. ;)
That's very perceptive of you!! That means law has been around a lot longer than Exodus 20.

So this only goes to help prove my point.
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My purpose was not to disprove your point about the Sabbath. In fact, I did not give my stance on the subject at all. I did not know if we HAD to keep it, but I keep it because I like ritualistic stuff. My point was to debunk an argument you always use to defend Mosaic law, that of us murdering. Seeing how it is your own arguments that came out contradictory, I fail to see how you "proved" anything.

Further more, I now think K is right.

From the king james version:

1: Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
2: And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
3: And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.


Nowhere do I see that we have to do anything special on the seventh day. God consecrated it. That's it. Nothing about not working or going to church on that day. I've looked through the next 3 chapters of Genesis and still nothing about any such thing. Unless I missed something(which I doubt), the keeping of the Sabbath was part of the Mosaic Law.

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