2012

Discussions on Christian eschatology including different views pertaining to Jesus' second coming, rapture and tribulation, the millennium, and so forth.
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madscientist
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Re: 2012

#46

Post by madscientist » Wed Nov 05, 2008 2:16 pm

Sanctimony god? what that? dont think i properly heard of that.
Yes, we can never be good enough by ourselves, but still - shouldnt we try and be better??? I mean, we sin etc. but there should be a difference between someone's sinning very badly or when he becomes Christian. then he should be a better man etc. So he is better and maybe fitter for Heaven. yes, still not completely purified and perfect, but closer than before. Isnt that what we all should aim for? To be better, better and better and resemble JC more and more. By sinning less, doing good to others, pray, like others, do good deeds etc. Yes, not perfect, but better. And I think God will look upon those who TRY to be better and work with Holy Spirit to be better - that they actually bother being better. And if they never reach perfection in this life - then God's there to make us perfect when we enter His Kingdom! To be saved, works are needed as much as faith, as they jusify it and "faith without works is dead".

Anyway that's purely my opinion so i'm open to discuss this :P

as for the end of the world - dont really see beyond it if it is to end soon. In order for one to be motivated to life, he should be assured world will go on. but how...? y:-?
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Re: 2012

#47

Post by Furstentum Liechtenstein » Wed Nov 05, 2008 6:38 pm

madscientist wrote:Sanctimony god? what that? dont think i properly heard of that.
Here is the definition of sanctimony:

Sanctimony: devoutness by intent...outward or artificial saintliness...assumed or pretended holiness...hypocritical devoutness. -Merriam Webster Dictonary

So, when I said you were in danger of creating the idol of a Sanctimony god, I warned that this god gives you the illusion that you are doing what Jesus Christ wants. In Jesus' day, the Pharisees had the authority to teach and expound the Torah, Jesus said, The scribes and Pharisees sit in Moses' seat, so you must obey them and do everything they tell you...≠ However, Jesus warns, ...I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.*

Obviously, The Pharisees were competent enough to teach the law and to guard the law and to obey the law, but all they could do was not good enough to get them to heaven. This is what Jesus warned when speaking to the rich young man in Luke 18: Those who heard [Jesus] asked,«Who then can be saved?» Pay attention to Jesus' reply: «What is impossible with men is possible with God.»
madscientist wrote:Yes, we can never be good enough by ourselves, but still - shouldnt we try and be better???
Should Christians try to be better? If this is your goal, it is the foundation of your Sanctimony god. So the answer is, NO! do not try to be better. Jesus told you what to do: Love the Lord your God with all your heart and all your soul and with all your mind

When I love God, He will change me and make me more and more like my Lord, as the Bible promises. The more I love the Lord, the more I immerse myself in His Word, the more I become like Him.The change comes as a gift from Him, not as something that I accomplish on my own. Get it?
madscientist wrote: And I think God will look upon those who TRY to be better and work with Holy Spirit to be better - that they actually bother being better.
No. The Sanctimony god may work this way. If becoming a «better» human being is your goal, you may want to look into Buddhism as it teaches holiness through works. Also, if you are counting on works to enter Paradise, you may want to look into Islam; Allah promises to weigh your good works and your bad works on a scale. If the good works are heavier, you get in!

Buddhism and Islam are friends of the Sanctimony god. You may feel at home with them, until you go to Hell.

FL

≠Matt 23:2-3
*Matt 5:20
³Matt 22:37 (All quotes NIV)
Hold everything lightly. If you don't, it will hurt when God pries your fingers loose as He takes it from you. -Corrie Ten Boom

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Re: 2012

#48

Post by Davidjayjordan » Tue Jan 13, 2009 11:44 am

Yes 2012 appears to be the START of the Great tribulation. The whole dark side knows the timing of their rule, and this is surely the start of the AC reign. It is written in the stars, written in the stone prophecy of Giza, written in prophecy concerning David and Moses, 70 year prophecy, and fits into the time frames of the Lord from Creation via six days of a thousand years each.

But whatever we shall absoltuely know once the Covenant is signed, if it is signed this year in Mid June, as the Israeli slaughter continies to Lebanon, Syria, and then IRAN, then we surely sshall have a COVENANT by June of this year. And then simple math brings you to the midst of the Last 7 years and that makes it december of 2012.

I would agree, and current events seem to back it up. Thank the Lord, as He gets His show on the road, even though it shall be devastating to those that are unprepared and unknowing.

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Re: 2012

#49

Post by JCSx2 » Tue Jan 13, 2009 11:52 am

Davidjayjordan wrote:Yes 2012 appears to be the START of the Great tribulation. The whole dark side knows the timing of their rule, and this is surely the start of the AC reign. It is written in the stars, written in the stone prophecy of Giza, written in prophecy concerning David and Moses, 70 year prophecy, and fits into the time frames of the Lord from Creation via six days of a thousand years each.

But whatever we shall absoltuely know once the Covenant is signed, if it is signed this year in Mid June, as the Israeli slaughter continies to Lebanon, Syria, and then IRAN, then we surely sshall have a COVENANT by June of this year. And then simple math brings you to the midst of the Last 7 years and that makes it december of 2012.

I would agree, and current events seem to back it up. Thank the Lord, as He gets His show on the road, even though it shall be devastating to those that are unprepared and unknowing.

What is the scripture that backs this up?
Definition of a Veteran. A veteran is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to "The United States of America", for an amount of "up to and including his life." That is honor, and there are way too many people in this country who no longer understand it.

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Re:

#50

Post by Davidjayjordan » Tue Jan 13, 2009 2:56 pm

aYs wrote:I also heard that in the year 2012 the sun will be in the center of the universe (speculation?) but this would make sense for the 2nd coming of Jesus Christ seeing as how the universe and everything within is all interwoven. Weren't the planets supposedly aligned for Jesus' birth? or was that just made up for the Nativity Story. lol
Close bro, as the sdolar system does go through the plane of the Milky Way exactly at that point in time, winter equinox of 2012. This is not New Age but Old Age as the Lord set all His planetary motions into gear from the Beginning. The devil has not got that power.

Yet again, can I suggest that the devil is a counterfeit, and by all scriptures and math, the AC comes first. hence in the darkest day, the AC shall surely go into the 3rd temple and declare Himself God, which is the starting point of the Great tribulation.

This meaning in three and a half years after that at the summer equinox, the lightest day of the year, the Lord has to return. This again surely at Pentecost as He said He would come in the manner he went. Again confirmation of times. I will give the timelines soon, the logic and reason first.

Good point, Bro.... but ubnderstanding that the Lord is the Creator of time and the planetary movements is a helful asset in understanding the End Time.

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Re: 2012

#51

Post by Anonymiss » Fri Jan 16, 2009 1:35 am

I have a feeling this whole 2012 thing could be a deceptive/false prophesy driven by Satan..
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Re: 2012

#52

Post by Johngreg » Thu Jan 22, 2009 10:09 am

I have a feeling so many New Age people could not be wrong because their god of this world does know his timing. They are gearing up for his arrival, if you ask me.

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Re: 2012

#53

Post by Cross.eyed » Thu Jan 22, 2009 9:59 pm

Anonymiss wrote:I have a feeling this whole 2012 thing could be a deceptive/false prophesy driven by Satan..
Well one thing is certain, it doesn't come from Jesus.

Mat. 24:36 Now concerning that day and hour no one knows-neither the angels in heaven, nor the Son-except the Father only. As the days of Noah were, so the coming of the Son of Man will be
I am the wretch the song refers to.

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Re: 2012

#54

Post by Johngreg » Thu Jan 22, 2009 10:24 pm

You forgot to mention that Noah knew the rains were coming that is why he built his boat for seventy years. The others did not know, but Noan knew and did something in preparation.Surely the Lord will do NOTHING except He revealeth His sevrets unto His servants the prophets.... so that we are without excuse. And this is why one verse does not destory all the verses of all the prophets who taught about the End Times. But if you like your one verse, you could start a NOBODY KNOWS THE TIMES SECTION and see how many brilliant non prophetic agreements you can get about nobody knowing anything.

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Re: 2012

#55

Post by Cross.eyed » Fri Jan 23, 2009 2:17 am

Johngreg wrote:I have a feeling so many New Age people could not be wrong because their god of this world does know his timing. They are gearing up for his arrival, if you ask me.
Here is a partial quote from an article in the Apologetics Bible:
Ted Cabal wrote:Since the New Age Movement is under the authority of no particular religious text,proponents are best identified by various "symptoms," such as the following; They prefer the practice of spirituality over organized, classical expressions of religion. They believe that no single religious teacher can claim the allegiance of all; claims by Jesus as being the Way must be reinterpreted or rejected altogether. According to them, rather than the grace of God revealed in the Jesus of the Bible,"angels," paranormal powers,or even raw human potential serve as "saviors" from the races predicament. Mixing and matching the objects of worship, they often identify themselves simultaneously in terms such as Buddhist, Jewish, and Presbyterian. Ultimately the NAM represents a return to polytheism, or the belief in many gods.

At first glance the shoddy handling of the truth in the NAM makes it appear more tolerant than Christianity. But actually it condescendingly views the claims of all other religions as wrong, ignorant, and devisive believing that only those in the NAM see the complete picture; other religions, fixated on their traditional teachings are unaware of the deep, hidden unity of all religions.
Now I have to ask; Who are/is your god(s)??
I am the wretch the song refers to.

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Sanctimony - to FL & 2012

#56

Post by madscientist » Mon Jan 26, 2009 8:31 am

Sorry FL i took ages to reply - i sorta stopped goin here... :P
Interesting. hmm. may i ask - what denomination are you? I hear many claims. Yes, God changes us but only if we allow Him. If we are stubborn then no change happens. Then, God changing us means we allow Him to be changed. In a way we cant change ourselves, but we have to do some work such as love God (go to church, restrain from sin, go to confessions, take Holy Communion etc). If we love God we do these; if not then we dont love God. Meaning, in order to love God we must change the way we live. For example, I give up something sinful and instead go to mass. Or, i confess and overcome temptation. It is God who allows us to change I'd say IF WE ASK HIM. If we are ignorant and are proud, unbelievers or just dont bother living the way JC wants us to then we are not really changed.
Thats also loads of psychology. Selfcontrol, motivation, realization we sinned, abstaining, gratification etc.

I think that it really matters only on the principles how it happens but the end result is the same. Yes; sanctimony such as pharisees is bad - hypocrisy i'd say. Anyway why were the pharisees so bad - because they were ignorant of Jesus? And were ALL of them that way? So, not a single one of them then is in heaven? Were all pharisees then this way? Well again, if yes it is conformity - if that and that doesnt believe why should i? Were pharisees any worse from normal avergae people?

The 2012 thing - well. Much bad stuff happens in world today its sad so i stopped watching news it makes me so depressed :( So if the Great tribulation is to take place in dec 2012 - then that will be the middle point; will world end then another 3.5 yrs after? And more importantly - will ALL christians (those who are to go to heaven) be raptured before GT? So, if someone lives thru dec 2012 does it mean hes damned to hell?
And when will the 1000 yrs of Jesus and 1000 yrs of Satan's rule occur? (ANyway i dont know which are general chrisitan beliefs whihc are not - e.g. heard rapture is not supported by catholics hmm i am one of them but now im so confused what to believe... y#-o )

Then why Bible says noone will know when end will come? And if it is probable that 2012 is the end why so little people are worried about it? Is it ignorance/cognitive dissonance? I am on my 1st year of study and if i knew its to end i would probably give up my 4year degree! But then that would be probably seen as "absurd" and people wold look at me like crazy. And there are many people who DO plan things for their adulthood and years far far after this 2012!!
"Love is only possible if a choice of either love or rejecting the love is given." One of the most true things id ever heard, not so long ago.

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Re: 2012

#57

Post by Furstentum Liechtenstein » Thu Jan 29, 2009 6:33 pm

You have asked too many questions, madscientist.

It is good that you are curious about all these things and I would encourage you to continue studying the Bible and attending Mass, perhaps joining a youth group if your church has one.

As for the world ending in 2012 (or 3.5 years later,) forget it. That is just stupidity.

FL
Hold everything lightly. If you don't, it will hurt when God pries your fingers loose as He takes it from you. -Corrie Ten Boom

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Re: 2012

#58

Post by madscientist » Tue Feb 03, 2009 7:14 am

AAh sorry its my anture to b curious :P
Yeah, not my church really but my university has some christian union and catholic society im member now i said in 2nd semester im gonna start goin to CU more :) hopefully learn something etc.

Hmm stupidity or not thats discutable. Looking at the state the world is now... quite discouraging.
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Re: 2012

#59

Post by Anonymiss » Wed Feb 11, 2009 7:36 pm

Prophecy says that no human being will be able to buy or sell anything without an implant in the forehead and hand... and even though we already have that sort of technology - from the way things are at this time it doesn't look as though that is about to happen in years yet to come let alone 2012.
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Re: 2012

#60

Post by Furstentum Liechtenstein » Thu Feb 12, 2009 5:10 am

Anonymiss wrote:Prophecy says that no human being will be able to buy or sell anything without an implant in the forehead and hand... and even though we already have that sort of technology - from the way things are at this time it doesn't look as though that is about to happen in years yet to come let alone 2012.
Yes. Your post would be appropriate for the thread entitled What are we missing? as well. That thread discusses events needed for the last of the Last Days to come about.

FL
Hold everything lightly. If you don't, it will hurt when God pries your fingers loose as He takes it from you. -Corrie Ten Boom

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