Stu wrote: ↑
Fri Apr 26, 2019 1:14 am
DBowling wrote: ↑
Thu Apr 25, 2019 1:30 pm
Stu wrote: ↑
Thu Apr 25, 2019 4:06 am
I was reading along to Revelation 14:9-12, which says the following:
9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
Now I have understood the above to mean that if you take the mark of the beast, then you will go to hell. But what the above seems to indicate is that if you also "worship the beast and his image", that you will go to hell. Or am I reading it wrong and does it mean that you have to do both, as in "worship the beast and his image" and "receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand", only then will you go to hell. Or does it mean that if you do either one you go to hell.
The "mark of the beast" in John's vision is symbolic spiritual imagery that indicates that a person "worships the beast and his image"
Just like those who worship the Lamb have the spiritual mark of the Lamb on their foreheads in John's vision.
In John's vision a mark on the forehead is a spiritual symbol that identifies allegiance.
So any person who follows and worships the beast by definition has the "mark of the beast" on their forehead.
And any person who follows and worships the Lamb by definition has the "mark of the Lamb" on their forehead.
Which means, as a follower of the Lamb, I (by definition) have the spiritual "mark of the Lamb" on my forehead, and I would assume that you also have the mark of the Lamb on your forehead.
We are saved by grace through faith in Christ alone!
... not by any work we can do or by any physical mark that is or is not placed on our bodies.
Then why does it say that we won't be able to buy or sell without the mark. That is not symbolic.
If commerce in the marketplace involves acts of devotion to the Beast (such as offering incense to the divine emperor) then a follower of "the Lamb" would not be able to participate in normal commerce because they would refuse to participate in an act of worship to the Beast.
The "Mark of the Beast" has nothing to do with a physical mark.
It has everything to do with allegiance and who you worship.
In John's vision, those who worship the Beast have the spiritual "mark of the Beast"
In John's vision those who worship the Lamb have the spiritual "mark of the Lamb"
The mark on the forehead is a symbolic indicator of spiritual allegiance.
Um, you are treading on dangerous ground - it says pretty clearly: "If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
Actually you are the one treading on very dangerous ground by asserting that our eternal destiny is a function of anything other than faith in Jesus Christ.
That is the core of the Gospel message, and Paul has some very harsh things to say about those who distort the Gospel of Jesus.
Your error is pretty simple. (And it is pretty common in prophetic interpretation these days)
You are attempting to interpret symbolic imagery in John's prophetic vision 'literally'.
How do we know that John's vision contains symbolic imagery?
1. John tells us right up front in Rev 1:1.
The older language of the KJV actually does a good job of demonstrating this point.
The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John
The KJV English translation of the Greek word esemanen in Rev 1:1 is signified (sign-ified), and this is an accurate translation.
In the very first verse of Revelation, John tells us that his vision contains symbolic representations of upcoming events.
2. Throughout the Book of Revelation, John actually defines a number of the symbols in his vision, such as the Great Prostitute (Rev 17:18)
So those who attempt to interpret the symbolic imagery of Revelation literally are actually in direct conflict with what John tells us about the nature of the imagery in his vision.
That is a salvation issue and if you do it you lose your salvation.
As I said above, distorting the Gospel message of salvation by grace through faith in Christ is a dangerous path to be going down.