Are Denominations Ordained by God?

Discussions on ecclesiology such as the nature, constitution and functions of the church.
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B. W.
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Re: Are Denominations Ordained by God?

#46

Post by B. W. » Wed Jul 01, 2009 3:12 pm

zoegirl wrote:...Now, the question posed was simply how many people define a denomination? Shall we resume the discussion?
I say it takes more than one because as it is written...

Mat 18:20, "For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them." KJV
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Re: Are Denominations Ordained by God?

#47

Post by cslewislover » Wed Jul 01, 2009 3:20 pm

B. W. wrote:
zoegirl wrote:...Now, the question posed was simply how many people define a denomination? Shall we resume the discussion?
I say it takes more than one because as it is written...

Mat 18:20, "For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them." KJV
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My Concise Dictionary of Christianity in America says that a denomination is an association or fellowship of congregations. So it's a group of groups. Interestingly, it doesn't have a definition of congregation. The regular dictionary says congregation is a group of gathered people. I take it a group is more than two. I looked it up a bit more on the internet, and a denomination, besides being a faith group of groups, also has an overall governing body.
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Re: Are Denominations Ordained by God?

#48

Post by ageofknowledge » Wed Jul 01, 2009 3:26 pm

There is bullying. I am being bullied and now it's being twisted into a coverup. I want the warning removed.

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Re: Are Denominations Ordained by God?

#49

Post by cslewislover » Wed Jul 01, 2009 3:30 pm

ageofknowledge wrote:There is bullying. I am being bullied and now it's being twisted into a coverup. I want the warning removed.
:crying: What?
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Re: Are Denominations Ordained by God?

#50

Post by ageofknowledge » Wed Jul 01, 2009 3:36 pm

cslewislover wrote:
ageofknowledge wrote:There is bullying. I am being bullied and now it's being twisted into a coverup. I want the warning removed.
:crying: What?
Not you CS. I LIKE you. I'm saying that most of the mods simply cosign each other's posts until they've convinced each other they're right (of course their can only be one possible outcome from the collusion of these mods always acting in unison for the benefit of themselves) and continue bullying up on me. It's dumb. They should remove the warning and let everyone go their happy way onto the next subject. I also think Rich should make me a mod so I can send the two mods involved a warning for their behavior.

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Re: Are Denominations Ordained by God?

#51

Post by B. W. » Wed Jul 01, 2009 3:51 pm

cslewislover wrote:
B. W. wrote:
zoegirl wrote:...Now, the question posed was simply how many people define a denomination? Shall we resume the discussion?
I say it takes more than one because as it is written...

Mat 18:20, "For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them." KJV
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My Concise Dictionary of Christianity in America says that a denomination is an association or fellowship of congregations. So it's a group of groups. Interestingly, it doesn't have a definition of congregation. The regular dictionary says congregation is a group of gathered people. I take it a group is more than two. I looked it up a bit more on the internet, and a denomination, besides being a faith group of groups, also has an overall governing body.
If then two or more groups make a denomination (fellowship) then would that fit the bill Jesus spoke of on the Macro scale that is?
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Re: Are Denominations Ordained by God?

#52

Post by ageofknowledge » Wed Jul 01, 2009 3:58 pm

cslewislover wrote:
B. W. wrote:
zoegirl wrote:...Now, the question posed was simply how many people define a denomination? Shall we resume the discussion?
I say it takes more than one because as it is written...

Mat 18:20, "For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them." KJV
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-
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My Concise Dictionary of Christianity in America says that a denomination is an association or fellowship of congregations. So it's a group of groups. Interestingly, it doesn't have a definition of congregation. The regular dictionary says congregation is a group of gathered people. I take it a group is more than two. I looked it up a bit more on the internet, and a denomination, besides being a faith group of groups, also has an overall governing body.
A Christian denomination is an identifiable religious body under a common name, structure, and doctrine within Christianity. That body can be a single person. Denominations that started with thousands of people are still active with less than ten people (I provided the Shakers who are left with four members but there are others in the database I obtained the over 38,000 denominations in Christiandom figure from that have only 1 or even 0 but still exist on paper and could be reconstituted). Each denomination began with at least one person gathering a group of adherents around them. But that's not the point. The point is that sharing this results in a warning toward the real objective which is a ban.

I've kind of tired of bickering over this. Obviously I have been treated unfairly here by a clique of Christians that hold all the power here and won't admit they have wronged me. But I'm not going to go on about it because they have hard hearts and won't repent. I'll be back in six months or so if you're lucky and haven't banned me. I have things to do. Goodbye.

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Re: Are Denominations Ordained by God?

#53

Post by ageofknowledge » Wed Jul 01, 2009 4:12 pm

zoegirl wrote:Byblos himself excused himself from moderator duties with regard to you which should show that he is not using his moderator status as a bully pulpit. He has said that he will not ban you.
Smoke and mirrors. He can easily have another mod do the deed with a single PM just like he was able to have the warning issued exactly like that. Look at his post of Byblos » Tue Jun 30, 2009 5:15 pm where he says it in bold letters and then it happens. So please zoegirl. I just proved it. COLLUSION. So you can drop the facade and stop pretending like that's not how it works.

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Re: Are Denominations Ordained by God?

#54

Post by Jac3510 » Wed Jul 01, 2009 4:31 pm

As a former mod, AoK, I can tell you that is not how it works. I can also tell you that you aren't helping your case by sticking to your guns on this. No one is at a point where they can't let all of this go yet. Just let is slide, dude. It isn't worth all this.

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Re: Are Denominations Ordained by God?

#55

Post by cslewislover » Wed Jul 01, 2009 4:34 pm

ageofknowledge wrote:
cslewislover wrote:
My Concise Dictionary of Christianity in America says that a denomination is an association or fellowship of congregations. So it's a group of groups. Interestingly, it doesn't have a definition of congregation. The regular dictionary says congregation is a group of gathered people. I take it a group is more than two. I looked it up a bit more on the internet, and a denomination, besides being a faith group of groups, also has an overall governing body.
A Christian denomination is an identifiable religious body under a common name, structure, and doctrine within Christianity. That body can be a single person. Denominations that started with thousands of people are still active with less than ten people (I provided the Shakers who are left with four members but there are others in the database I obtained the over 38,000 denominations in Christiandom figure from that have only 1 or even 0 but still exist on paper and could be reconstituted). Each denomination began with at least one person gathering a group of adherents around them. But that's not the point. The point is that sharing this results in a warning toward the real objective which is a ban.
But a religious body can simply be a church or congregation without being a denomination; there are many of them. I would say that a body is made of parts, and that a single person would not constitute a congregation or a church body. It would be a person with their own faith or opinions. As for dead denominations, it sounds like they are simply a historical fact, not a denomination in any useful or practical sense. Sure, it's a matter of definition.
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Re: Are Denominations Ordained by God?

#56

Post by zoegirl » Wed Jul 01, 2009 5:05 pm

age wrote:The point is that sharing this results in a warning toward the real objective which is a ban.
Actually, no, it doesn't. What you want to discuss isn't the issue. It's was flying off the handle. Palinand simple. That's why I asked to resume the discussion. It was a good discussion and has since brought abou good discussion. Byblos is free to ask you about the numbers. Nobody critiqued the numbers or is planning to ban you for the numbers.

All of us have similarities and differences. Jac and I have squared off on election before(well, I probably backed off before the term "squared off" can really be used :P , there wasn;t going to be a resolution there!). CSL is YEC and I am OEC. YOu have presented very nice arguments and posts here on multiple topics. IT'sjust plain mystifying why one or two questions has even brought this to this level.

In fact, this goes back to the original post, since I would bet that most of us here can claim different denominations. And yet I gladly look forward to praising and worshippoing God in the next creation with Jac, CSLL, and Byblos even though we may disagree with doctrine.

Let me pose another question for those followig the thread. How much does non-doctrinal issues pose in the decision to go to a particular denomination. For instance, I would probably never feel comfortable in a charismatic church. I once went to a concert hosted by a charismatic church and, coming from a non-chaismatic church, hearing and seeing the person next to me start muttering gibberish really threw me. I don't believe in tongues, at least, to that level.

Music for me will, everything else beig equal, would also be a deciding factor. The age of the congregation? THe status of the people (it's no fun goig to a church when EVERYBODY else is married with kids and there are very few people my age and while church isn't necessarily about fun....it's tough to find fellowship), the mission of the church?


It is sad that we can let non-essential docvtrines like infant baptism or communion or speaking in tongues separate us. That being said, sometimes too many of the CHristians in the UNited States have, in the notion of "it doesn't matter", given up on figuring things out and the lack of scholarship has made us weak. The best of scholarship with the least judgement? I have learned much from Byblos concerning CAtholic church doctrine and although I may still disagree with the view of communion, I hope I may still, like iron sharpening iron, learn form him. Jac has made me think more about why I believe what I believe. And I never really knew about the mysticism that CSLL brought up.

There are essentials that would make me avoid a church. Believeing that the Word of GOd isn't inerrant would make me not go. Ordaining gay priests or pastors.

There are denominations because, unfortunately, people will make bad decisions about what God's word says.

This has made me curious, howver, I want to know what Byblos in his original post about the increase in the numbers. Byblos, are you meaning that we all would have slightly different views ?
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Re: Are Denominations Ordained by God?

#57

Post by cslewislover » Wed Jul 01, 2009 5:12 pm

zoegirl wrote:
age wrote: All of us have similarities and differences. Jac and I have squared off on election before(well, I probably backed off before the term "squared off" can really be used :P , there wasn;t going to be a resolution there!). CSL is YEC and I am OEC. YOu have presented very nice arguments and posts here on multiple topics. IT'sjust plain mystifying why one or two questions has even brought this to this level.
Actaully, I'm not YEC, but that's OK. I just don't agree with a small number of OEC arguments. y\:D/ Hee hee. Good post though. :)
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Re: Are Denominations Ordained by God?

#58

Post by zoegirl » Wed Jul 01, 2009 5:37 pm

Huh, I could hae sworn that you were....well, you leanr something new every day!!

:oops: :esurprised:

I'd still gladly worship with you :P
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Re: Are Denominations Ordained by God?

#59

Post by Byblos » Wed Jul 01, 2009 7:37 pm

zoegirl wrote:This has made me curious, howver, I want to know what Byblos in his original post about the increase in the numbers. Byblos, are you meaning that we all would have slightly different views ?
I hadn't planned on re-engaging in this thread at all, lest I am now accused of enticement (it's enough that we've graduated into conspiracies). But since you asked (and thank you for asking) I will clarify what I meant. The discussion was on the number of denominations (not formally declared denominations mind you, just simply denominations). AoK stated that there actually was only a number in the hundreds, to which I asked what constituted a denomination and the answer was a single person. In my mind, since a previous assertion was made that there were 38,000 of them (an assertion I did not even make by the way), it stood to reason that if a single person can denote a denomination then the 38,000 can be multiplied by their respective number of members (hence the number of denominations is exponentially increased). A rather simple (and yes, silly) thing to say but it was said more with tongue in cheek rather than any attempt at serious debate. There was no intention of slyness in any way in my response but that basically is what sparked AoK's rage.
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Re: Are Denominations Ordained by God?

#60

Post by zoegirl » Wed Jul 01, 2009 8:03 pm

Byblos wrote:
zoegirl wrote:This has made me curious, howver, I want to know what Byblos in his original post about the increase in the numbers. Byblos, are you meaning that we all would have slightly different views ?
I hadn't planned on re-engaging in this thread at all, lest I am now accused of enticement (it's enough that we've graduated into conspiracies). But since you asked (and thank you for asking) I will clarify what I meant. The discussion was on the number of denominations (not formally declared denominations mind you, just simply denominations). AoK stated that there actually was only a number in the hundreds, to which I asked what constituted a denomination and the answer was a single person. In my mind, since a previous assertion was made that there were 38,000 of them (an assertion I did not even make by the way), it stood to reason that if a single person can denote a denomination then the 38,000 can be multiplied by their respective number of members (hence the number of denominations is exponentially increased). A rather simple (and yes, silly) thing to say but it was said more with tongue in cheek rather than any attempt at serious debate. There was no intention of slyness in any way in my response but that basically is what sparked AoK's rage.
Ah, gotcha.
no problem....I just was wanting to know.
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