Pagan Mythology

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riderontheclouds
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Pagan Mythology

#1

Post by riderontheclouds » Tue Apr 17, 2018 11:26 pm

I am currently reading the Epic of Gilgamesh, and enjoying it. Is it wrong for believers to enjoy Pagan mythology?

My argument for it not being wrong is that the writers of the Bible, particularly the Old Testament (Tanakh to me) would use imagery from Pagan mythology to make theological points. Isaiah 27 and Psalm 74 use imagery from the Baal Cycle, for example.

Though I am not presently a 'Christian' (I presently only follow the OT), Paul claimed that eating meat sacrificed to idols is fine, provided it is not in the context of Pagan worship. Maybe Pagan literature is fine, provided it is not in the context of worship?

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Re: Pagan Mythology

#2

Post by B. W. » Fri Apr 20, 2018 8:04 am

riderontheclouds wrote:
Tue Apr 17, 2018 11:26 pm
I am currently reading the Epic of Gilgamesh, and enjoying it. Is it wrong for believers to enjoy Pagan mythology?

My argument for it not being wrong is that the writers of the Bible, particularly the Old Testament (Tanakh to me) would use imagery from Pagan mythology to make theological points. Isaiah 27 and Psalm 74 use imagery from the Baal Cycle, for example.

Though I am not presently a 'Christian' (I presently only follow the OT), Paul claimed that eating meat sacrificed to idols is fine, provided it is not in the context of Pagan worship. Maybe Pagan literature is fine, provided it is not in the context of worship?
I study this as well but note this: "All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world."Rev 13:8 NKJV

"Lamb slain from the foundation of the world..."

God had a plan before anything ever was.

One third of the angels rebelled in heaven as Rev 12: 4,7,8,9 says

Ancient Mesopotamia pagan deities mirror the fallen angels and had a plan too to stop Gen 3:15 - Rev 13:8 from happening.

How?

1 corrupt humanity and have God destroy humanity (this failed but is on going)

2 insert there own messiah, born of a woman, before Jesus came into the world (this failed) to slay God (who in their eyes is the chaos serpent).

3 insert Apolloyon - a false messiah in the last days and a false prophet to cause God to unjustly destroy humanity so they destroy God.

If you read and study this stuff, just keep these in mind and you will see this clearly in the story line of Enki, Ishtar, Nebo, Nergal etc and etc... The names change to protect the guilty and confuse the ones studying this sort of thing. It is the story-line that identifies the players.

Canaanite , Greek, Roman, Hindu, Norse, Celtic, even Mayan, Aztec, etc religions main deities all share the same story-lines of ancient Mesopotamian religions.... Basically you are reading enemy propaganda and must look at it this way.

Not wrong to study it but don't think for a minute that the bible came from it. That is why books like Jasher and 1 Enoch help set the record straight...

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Re: Pagan Mythology

#3

Post by riderontheclouds » Sat Apr 21, 2018 1:31 am

No what I'm saying at all

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Re: Pagan Mythology

#4

Post by riderontheclouds » Sat Apr 21, 2018 1:37 am

You do need to have your head in the sand to ignore the parallels between Psalm 74 and Isaiah 27 and the Baal cycle. I'm sorry

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Re: Pagan Mythology

#5

Post by Philip » Sat Apr 21, 2018 6:33 am

riderontheclouds: Though I am not presently a 'Christian' (I presently only follow the OT)
If you follow the OT, then you should know it is ALL about Jesus - points to the Messiah's coming. And there is tremendous evidence of this. And if you understand the OT correctly, the messiah was prophesied to come while the sacrificial system around Israel's temple was still intact. So, if not Jesus, where was that Messiah before 70 AD?

You should read through these OT prophecies fulfilled in Jesus: http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/prophchr.html

And the related rabbinical writings: http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/messiah.html

More on Jesus: http://www.godandscience.org/doctrine/w ... s_god.html

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Re: Pagan Mythology

#6

Post by B. W. » Sat Apr 21, 2018 11:29 am

What we have in the Judaic - Christian tradition is actual fulfilled prophecy as recorded in the text of the bible as well as an ancient people who remain intact to this day in the very land called Israel called by their ancient name.

Mesopotamia paganism does not. Also, it is Canaanite religious system is where the central focus and starting point of all the pagan deities story lines. Those nations are gone - so is Babylonian empire.

Israel remains. Nation born in one day in May 1948, regathered a second time.

1 Tim 3:1-4 perilous times - meaning insane perilous times are being entering in...
From my notes on 2 Timothy 3:1 NKJV, on Greek word - perilous - in text -

The word translated perilous in 2 Tim 3:1 is a difficult word to translate. The only other place in the NT it is found is in Matthew 8:28 concerning two demoniacs who violently-perilously approached Jesus. This lead me to trace how the word is used in the Greek Old Testament, the Septuagint.

From the etymology of the Greek word ‘chalepós – perilous’ – and its usage in the Septuagint, I discovered that this word indicates some sort evil insane, crazy ‘as in demonized crazy. Like the men who violently approached Jesus in Mat 8:28 are described. The best definition one gathers from the history of this word’s usage is: demonized as in evil/warped, diabolically (criminally) insane, crazy-perilous. That picture made is plain from Mat 8:28.

Now look at verse 1-4 and add the word insane before each word in verses 2-5 as that is best wat to comprhend what Paul was conveying: Quoted from the NKJV and incerted the word insane, etc, for you all

2 Timothy 3:1-4, “But know this, that in the last days Insanely perilous times will come…”

2Ti 3:2 For men will be (insane) lovers of themselves, (insane) lovers of money, (insane) boasters, (insanely) proud, (insane) blasphemers, (insanely) disobedient to parents, (insanely) unthankful, (insanely) unholy - means impious without right responsibility to God or each other

2Ti 3:3 (insanely) unloving - without affection – unsociable - unhuman, (insanely) unforgiving, (insane) slanderers means act the part of the devil to accuse- character assassinate, (insanely) without self-control, (insanely) brutal, (insane) despisers of good, (means – oppose goodness and good people make goodness evil and evil the new measure of goodness) Cultural Marxism does this

2Ti 3:4 People will become --- (insane) traitors, betrayers, (insanely) headstrong – means, rush forward out of control without thinking things through responsibly – (insanely) haughty-insolent-rude, an arrogant lack of respect

(insanely) lovers of pleasure (hedonism) rather than lovers of God,

Lovers of pleasure is a Greek compound word – Philos (Loves companionship with) and Hedononze where we get the word Hedonism from

Hedonism is a school of thought that argues that pleasure and happiness are the primary or most important intrinsic goods and the aim of human life. Hedonist strives to maximize net pleasure (pleasure minus pain) to achieve happiness.

Hedonism is the idea that all people have the right to do everything in their power to achieve the greatest amount of pleasure possible as that defines what intrinsic good is and guides the aim of human life – pleasure. Every person's pleasure must surpass their amount of pain or idea of discomfort or being offended is they rule such live by and push and even legislate on others. Text expresses this in translation - Insanely seeking to make others betrothed to hedonism.

2Ti 3:5 having a form (shape-image) of godliness (respect toward divine transcendence of God’s character) but denying its power (dunamis). And from such people turn away!

They deny the - dunamis power - of God

Thayer Definition: Dunamis
1) Infused endowed with strength power, ability or
1a) inherent power residing in a thing by virtue of its nature, or which a person or thing exerts and puts forth
1b) power for performing miracles
1c) moral power (Moral strength) and excellence of soul
1d) the power and influence which belong to riches and wealth
1e) power and resources arising from numbers
1f) power consisting in or resting upon armies, forces, host

Excellence of soul - in Thayer’s time meant:

Excellence - a transformed character (in the soul) made upright, whole, sound, by an accurate knowledge (of God) that produces soundness and durability that blesses society, God… does his will. To be above one’s former brutish state and affairs of life – not governed by these

2Ti 3:5 having a form (shape-image) of godliness (respect toward divine transcendence God’s character) but denying its power (dunamis).

We have this today in abundance. in and outside of churches...
No Ridetheclouds - the biblical records did not come from paganism of Canaan or Mesopotamia mythology. It is God setting the record straight in an actual spiritual war that still rages today as it is written in Rev 12:7.

He has confirmed his own word with fulfilled prophecy and the world will continue to deny him until the last of the last days. You decide which camp you want to be in on this one. Intellectualism will not save you. Empirically and there is enough evidence world wide that we are entering the insane perilous times Paul wrote about.

Also, chaos - was not slain - he went by the name Azazel in the bible and known as Leviathan and God has control over that one, sealed up in the abyss. Suggest you read Job chapters 38-42 to find out. He won't escape no matter what the pagan deities story line try to suggest otherwise...

God is taunting the fallen ones in Psalms 74... etc and etc...

Isa 27:1, "In that day the LORD with His severe sword, great and strong, Will punish Leviathan the fleeing serpent, Leviathan that twisted serpent; And He will slay the reptile that is in the sea." NKJV

Sea is the pit of Hell known to you as the Abuz... In Enoch it plainly says there he remains till Rev 20:14 happens - which mentions him by his known Greek name by the way. note also 2 Peter 2:4 and Jude 1:6

Lake of fire is eternal - such lives eternally suffering... as they are utterly corrupt

The Legion account mentions this time in Mat 8:29, "And suddenly they cried out, saying, "What have we to do with You, Jesus, You Son of God? Have You come here to torment us before the time?"

Don't believe in enemy propaganda... as the means to discredit the bible to build yourself up in own esteem....
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Re: Pagan Mythology

#7

Post by riderontheclouds » Sat Apr 21, 2018 9:36 pm

"Don't believe in enemy propaganda... as the means to discredit the bible to build yourself up in own esteem...."

I don't 'believe' it at all

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Re: Pagan Mythology

#8

Post by Kurieuo » Sun Apr 22, 2018 4:03 am

Rider, here's a thread you might find interesting: viewtopic.php?f=19&t=40833&p=195269

Take a read also of the page IceMobster re-linked to i.e., http://www.theimaginativeconservative.o ... ology.html

Lewis and Tolkien had quite interesting exchanges and perspectives on such.
These users liked this post by Kurieuo:
riderontheclouds (Sun Apr 22, 2018 11:37 am)
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Re: Pagan Mythology

#9

Post by B. W. » Sun Apr 22, 2018 10:59 am

riderontheclouds wrote:
Sat Apr 21, 2018 9:36 pm
"Don't believe in enemy propaganda... as the means to discredit the bible to build yourself up in own esteem...."

I don't 'believe' it at all
Then look over K's post then,,,,
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Re: Pagan Mythology

#10

Post by riderontheclouds » Sun Apr 22, 2018 11:42 am

Kurieuo wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 4:03 am
Rider, here's a thread you might find interesting: viewtopic.php?f=19&t=40833&p=195269

Take a read also of the page IceMobster re-linked to i.e., http://www.theimaginativeconservative.o ... ology.html

Lewis and Tolkien had quite interesting exchanges and perspectives on such.
Whilst an interesting post, I'm not sure how this links to the discussion of whether or not it is appropriate to enjoy pagan mythology.

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Re: Pagan Mythology

#11

Post by Kurieuo » Sun Apr 22, 2018 4:27 pm

riderontheclouds wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 11:42 am
Kurieuo wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 4:03 am
Rider, here's a thread you might find interesting: viewtopic.php?f=19&t=40833&p=195269

Take a read also of the page IceMobster re-linked to i.e., http://www.theimaginativeconservative.o ... ology.html

Lewis and Tolkien had quite interesting exchanges and perspectives on such.
Whilst an interesting post, I'm not sure how this links to the discussion of whether or not it is appropriate to enjoy pagan mythology.
Why put it in terms of appropriate or inappropriate? That to me seems like asking whether it is appropriate to smell flowers, or whether the colour "red" is appropriate.

First, what to you mean by "appropriate"? I'm gathering you mean morally so i.e., it is wrong to read and/or enjoy mythology? Then if so, please elaborate on why you are thinking it would be wrong? As it just seems odd to me. I'd like to better understand your question and reasons for it.
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Re: Pagan Mythology

#12

Post by neo-x » Sun Apr 22, 2018 11:36 pm

riderontheclouds wrote:
Tue Apr 17, 2018 11:26 pm
I am currently reading the Epic of Gilgamesh, and enjoying it. Is it wrong for believers to enjoy Pagan mythology?

My argument for it not being wrong is that the writers of the Bible, particularly the Old Testament (Tanakh to me) would use imagery from Pagan mythology to make theological points. Isaiah 27 and Psalm 74 use imagery from the Baal Cycle, for example.

Though I am not presently a 'Christian' (I presently only follow the OT), Paul claimed that eating meat sacrificed to idols is fine, provided it is not in the context of Pagan worship. Maybe Pagan literature is fine, provided it is not in the context of worship?
I'd agree. Though I would like to know your reservations regarding this if any?
Thanks
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And with that we went below to the flame-flickering Darkness of the lower deck
and to a cold almost the equal of the Dante-esque Ninth Circle Arctic Night
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Re: Pagan Mythology

#13

Post by B. W. » Mon Apr 23, 2018 8:33 am

neo-x wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 11:36 pm
riderontheclouds wrote:
Tue Apr 17, 2018 11:26 pm
I am currently reading the Epic of Gilgamesh, and enjoying it. Is it wrong for believers to enjoy Pagan mythology?

My argument for it not being wrong is that the writers of the Bible, particularly the Old Testament (Tanakh to me) would use imagery from Pagan mythology to make theological points. Isaiah 27 and Psalm 74 use imagery from the Baal Cycle, for example.

Though I am not presently a 'Christian' (I presently only follow the OT), Paul claimed that eating meat sacrificed to idols is fine, provided it is not in the context of Pagan worship. Maybe Pagan literature is fine, provided it is not in the context of worship?
I'd agree. Though I would like to know your reservations regarding this if any?
Thanks
I would too..

Also it is the failure for so much of modern scholar to fail to look through the world view of the writers inspired by God to write the the OT. When you have an understanding of that worldview then the prophetic books like Daniel open up and you see how and why the Lord laughs and hold with derision...as it is written in Psalms 2:1-12, Psalms 59:1-17

Food for thought????
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Re: Pagan Mythology

#14

Post by riderontheclouds » Mon Apr 23, 2018 11:31 am

neo-x wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 11:36 pm
riderontheclouds wrote:
Tue Apr 17, 2018 11:26 pm
I am currently reading the Epic of Gilgamesh, and enjoying it. Is it wrong for believers to enjoy Pagan mythology?

My argument for it not being wrong is that the writers of the Bible, particularly the Old Testament (Tanakh to me) would use imagery from Pagan mythology to make theological points. Isaiah 27 and Psalm 74 use imagery from the Baal Cycle, for example.

Though I am not presently a 'Christian' (I presently only follow the OT), Paul claimed that eating meat sacrificed to idols is fine, provided it is not in the context of Pagan worship. Maybe Pagan literature is fine, provided it is not in the context of worship?
I'd agree. Though I would like to know your reservations regarding this if any?
Thanks
They are not to be used for religious purposes, except for biblical hermeneutic, when necessary, I'll say that at least.

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Re: Pagan Mythology

#15

Post by claysmithr » Thu Apr 26, 2018 8:53 am

The fallen angels are full of arrogance and pride if they think they are better than God. Seriously, how can anyone fight against God and expect to win? Especially when God knows the end from the beginning!

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