Is homosexuality harmful?

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Katabole
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Re: Is homosexuality harmful?

#61

Post by Katabole » Thu Dec 15, 2016 6:42 am

Philip wrote:

Clearly, this is not just about Hosea and Gomer the prostitute - it is also about and parallels Israel's unfaithfulness to the Lord. But it is a weird passage. Maybe someone can shed more light on it. Obviously, Hosea did not want to do this (marry Gomer), but he did obey God and he did love her - as God did, and as He loved Israel, despite it's unfaithfulness and evils.
That is a good synopsis.

The Northern kingdom of Israel had moved far away from any pretense of following Biblical law or the worship of Yahweh. They were committing idolatry and worshipping just about anything. 2 Kings chapter 17, describes in detail what they were doing which starts in verse 7, with the rejection of Yahweh and ends at verse 17. Their idolatry got so bad that they were offering their children as sacrifices as they burned their children alive to the god Molech, which was the final straw.

Idolatry in both the Old and New Testaments, is almost always and exclusively compared with either fornication or adultery. In other words, lack of faith. Unfaithfulness.

Gomer is a type or an example of unfaithful Israel.

Historically, the book of Hosea was divided into 4 parts that were read aloud in Synagogues. The first part is from chapter 1:1 to chapter 5:15.

If you notice, God tells Hosea to specifically name his three children:

Child one. Jezreel whose name means "coming judgment".
Child two. Lo-Ruhamah whose name means "not loved".
Child three. Lo-Ammi whose name means "not my people".

Follow through the book of Hosea through to chapter 5:15 and God claims that He will again redeem his people for He calls the children a different name, "Ruhamah" and "Ammi" meaning loved and my people, respectively.

The Minor Prophets are like tomorrow's news in a sense, prophetic examples, because what is written are given as examples of what it will be like before Christ's return. The words "latter days" is used on numerous occasions in the Minor Prophets, including in the book of Hosea.




As for the OP, from a Christian perspective, it is. Best said in 1 Cor 6 and Galatians 5.

1 Cor 6:9 Do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

1 Cor 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Galatian 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

Galatians 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

Galatians 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

The true harm of all sin is that people who sin and who do not repent, do not enter the Kingdom of God. They can however, enter the Kingdom if they repent. Christ forgives sin. Paul reminded the Corinthians that some of them used to be habitual sinners but truly changed the way they viewed sin when they became believers in Christ:

1 Cor 6:11 And such were some of you: but you are washed, but you are sanctified, but you are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

If a person does not become a believer in Christ and repents, then they should not be surprised at the outcome that awaits them after death. If a person does, what awaits them will be so fantastic, it will be greater than anything they could ever have imagined while they lived in the flesh.
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Re: Is homosexuality harmful?

#62

Post by RickD » Thu Dec 15, 2016 7:29 am

katabole wrote:
The true harm of all sin is that people who sin and who do not repent, do not enter the Kingdom of God. They can however, enter the Kingdom if they repent. Christ forgives sin. Paul reminded the Corinthians that some of them used to be habitual sinners but truly changed the way they viewed sin when they became believers in Christ:
So,

As long as we're not "habitual" sinners, we will be saved? So we either have to stop sinning, or it's off to hell with us?

Wow,

You guys and your works gospel sure put burdens on people.

I thank God that even though I may commit spiritual adultery, God is the faithful husband who will never divorce us.
1 Corinthians 1:9
9 God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

Audie wrote:
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Re: Is homosexuality harmful?

#63

Post by PaulSacramento » Thu Dec 15, 2016 7:32 am

A sin is any act ( or thought) that is contrary to what is ideal for humans and against natural law and God's plan for Us.

Homosexuality is a sin because it is not the biological ideal for humans ( can't procreate, leads to diseases, etc) and is against natural law ( humans procreate in a heterosexual way) and against God's plan for us.

Even if one were to no believe in "sin", one would still have to deal with the biological issues of homosexual behavior.

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Re: Is homosexuality harmful?

#64

Post by PaulSacramento » Thu Dec 15, 2016 7:33 am

It is impossible of humans to NOT sin.
Even the angels sin.
Only God is without Sin.

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Re: Is homosexuality harmful?

#65

Post by Philip » Thu Dec 15, 2016 10:04 am

In the introductory passage about Hosea and Gomer, many respected commentators do not believe that Gomer was already prostituting and whoring BEFORE he obeyed God's command and married her.

"When the Lord first spoke through Hosea, the Lord said to Hosea, “Go, take to yourself a wife of whoredom and have children of whoredom, for the land commits great whoredom by forsaking the Lord.” 3 So he went and took Gomer, the daughter of Diblaim, and she conceived and bore him a son.

1) The prophetic uttering (above) is written down AFTER events. 2) That introductory prophetic statement references "the land" - rather Israel and her unfaithfulness to the Lord. 3) Hosea is commanded to take a wife from the land of Israel - of whom most are spiritually adulterous in the eyes of the Lord. And just like the symbolism from the tragic whorings of Gomer, it appears that the marriage started out normally, perhaps even good - as the covenant between God and Israel did, before Israel turned to all manner of evil, idolatry, sexual sins.

This is why one must be very careful to not read into a passage what it APPEARS to say literally - although, clearly, much of Scripture does in fact have literal meanings. But it also have parallel, symbolic, allegorical, and metaphorical meanings that are tied to the points being made in what also literally takes place. Anyway, this passage just came to mind when the subject came up.

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Re: Is homosexuality harmful?

#66

Post by Katabole » Thu Dec 15, 2016 11:29 am

RickD wrote:So,

As long as we're not "habitual" sinners, we will be saved? So we either have to stop sinning, or it's off to hell with us?

Wow,

You guys and your works gospel sure put burdens on people.

Not sure if you're being sarcastic or not.

I do not believe in a works-based Gospel.

Jesus told people to stop sinning.

John 5:14 Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.

John 8:11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

Everyone sins everyday. If Christ personally warned us to sin no more, we would still sin. However, I would hope as Christians since we sin every day, that we ask God for forgiveness every day as well. I certainly do. I am sure that Paul let the Corinthians know that as well. If we do, God is faithful to forgive our sins, no matter how great or how minor and does not want to hear about them again. That is why prayer is so important. Prayer is a daily part of my life. And if we ask for forgiveness and know that God has been faithful to forgive us, then He is indeed a faithful husband.

I certainly do believe that Christ died for sinners. But I also believe in a God who claims that sinners will not enter the kingdom of God. That is what Paul wrote. I also believe the same God will allow any sinner who repents to enter.

How can a person who is either not a Christian or a Christian who is a sinner or a habitual sinner who does not repent, enter the kingdom? They can't do it by works or merit. The answer is they don't. I do not know of any passage in Scripture that claims that non-Christians and unrepentant sinners enter the kingdom of God. If they do, is there some clause hidden within Scripture I am missing to the contrary? And if that is the case, why doesn't everyone just do what they want to because they are all going to make it to the kingdom, regardless of lack of any kind of Christian-based morality or faith in Christ.

Matthew 7:13 Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it.

Matthew 7:14 For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.
RickD wrote:I thank God that even though I may commit spiritual adultery, God is the faithful husband who will never divorce us.
God already is a divorcee. He divorced Israel a long time ago.

Jeremiah 3:8 And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.

Granted, He does plan to marry again in the future.
Well it may be the devil or it may be the Lord but you know you gotta serve somebody. Bob Dylan

Every one that is of the truth hears my voice. Jesus from John 18:37

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Re: Is homosexuality harmful?

#67

Post by Audacity » Thu Dec 15, 2016 11:57 am

PaulSacramento wrote: I really don't think that you understood what I said.
Perhaps not. It wouldn't be the first time.

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Re: Is homosexuality harmful?

#68

Post by Audacity » Thu Dec 15, 2016 12:06 pm

PaulSacramento wrote:
Consider the Jews and how Christmas and all its attendant trappings could be a said to be a monumental flaunting of Christianity "in their face."--after all, one of the underlying messages of Christians is "We're right and if you're not one of us you're wrong." But the Jews don't complain because they put it in perspective. I suggest you try doing the same.
yeah, only religious people do that...
LMAO
Thank you for recognizing that Christians do this.

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Re: Is homosexuality harmful?

#69

Post by Audacity » Thu Dec 15, 2016 12:08 pm

PaulSacramento wrote:A sin is any act ( or thought) that is contrary to what is ideal for humans and against natural law and God's plan for Us.

Homosexuality is a sin because it is not the biological ideal for humans ( can't procreate, leads to diseases, etc) and is against natural law ( humans procreate in a heterosexual way) and against God's plan for us.

Even if one were to no believe in "sin", one would still have to deal with the biological issues of homosexual behavior.
Issues, which are what?

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Re: Is homosexuality harmful?

#70

Post by PaulSacramento » Thu Dec 15, 2016 12:53 pm

Audacity wrote:
PaulSacramento wrote:A sin is any act ( or thought) that is contrary to what is ideal for humans and against natural law and God's plan for Us.

Homosexuality is a sin because it is not the biological ideal for humans ( can't procreate, leads to diseases, etc) and is against natural law ( humans procreate in a heterosexual way) and against God's plan for us.

Even if one were to no believe in "sin", one would still have to deal with the biological issues of homosexual behavior.
Issues, which are what?

Did you NOT read ANY of this thread ??

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Re: Is homosexuality harmful?

#71

Post by PaulSacramento » Thu Dec 15, 2016 12:53 pm

Audacity wrote:
PaulSacramento wrote:
Consider the Jews and how Christmas and all its attendant trappings could be a said to be a monumental flaunting of Christianity "in their face."--after all, one of the underlying messages of Christians is "We're right and if you're not one of us you're wrong." But the Jews don't complain because they put it in perspective. I suggest you try doing the same.
yeah, only religious people do that...
LMAO
Thank you for recognizing that Christians do this.
Of course they do, everyone does.
It's a human trait.

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Re: Is homosexuality harmful?

#72

Post by RickD » Thu Dec 15, 2016 12:58 pm

Katabole wrote:
RickD wrote:So,

As long as we're not "habitual" sinners, we will be saved? So we either have to stop sinning, or it's off to hell with us?

Wow,

You guys and your works gospel sure put burdens on people.

Not sure if you're being sarcastic or not.

I do not believe in a works-based Gospel.

Jesus told people to stop sinning.

John 5:14 Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.

John 8:11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

Everyone sins everyday. If Christ personally warned us to sin no more, we would still sin. However, I would hope as Christians since we sin every day, that we ask God for forgiveness every day as well. I certainly do. I am sure that Paul let the Corinthians know that as well. If we do, God is faithful to forgive our sins, no matter how great or how minor and does not want to hear about them again. That is why prayer is so important. Prayer is a daily part of my life. And if we ask for forgiveness and know that God has been faithful to forgive us, then He is indeed a faithful husband.

I certainly do believe that Christ died for sinners. But I also believe in a God who claims that sinners will not enter the kingdom of God. That is what Paul wrote. I also believe the same God will allow any sinner who repents to enter.

How can a person who is either not a Christian or a Christian who is a sinner or a habitual sinner who does not repent, enter the kingdom? They can't do it by works or merit. The answer is they don't. I do not know of any passage in Scripture that claims that non-Christians and unrepentant sinners enter the kingdom of God. If they do, is there some clause hidden within Scripture I am missing to the contrary? And if that is the case, why doesn't everyone just do what they want to because they are all going to make it to the kingdom, regardless of lack of any kind of Christian-based morality or faith in Christ.

Matthew 7:13 Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it.

Matthew 7:14 For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.
RickD wrote:I thank God that even though I may commit spiritual adultery, God is the faithful husband who will never divorce us.
God already is a divorcee. He divorced Israel a long time ago.

Jeremiah 3:8 And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.

Granted, He does plan to marry again in the future.
No sarcasm intended.

It all depends on your definition of "repent". What is the definition that you are using?
1 Corinthians 1:9
9 God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

Audie wrote:
"Christianity is not a joke, but it has some very poor representatives."



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

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Re: Is homosexuality harmful?

#73

Post by Nessa » Thu Dec 15, 2016 1:45 pm

RickD wrote:
Katabole wrote:
RickD wrote:So,

As long as we're not "habitual" sinners, we will be saved? So we either have to stop sinning, or it's off to hell with us?

Wow,

You guys and your works gospel sure put burdens on people.

Not sure if you're being sarcastic or not.

I do not believe in a works-based Gospel.

Jesus told people to stop sinning.

John 5:14 Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.

John 8:11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

Everyone sins everyday. If Christ personally warned us to sin no more, we would still sin. However, I would hope as Christians since we sin every day, that we ask God for forgiveness every day as well. I certainly do. I am sure that Paul let the Corinthians know that as well. If we do, God is faithful to forgive our sins, no matter how great or how minor and does not want to hear about them again. That is why prayer is so important. Prayer is a daily part of my life. And if we ask for forgiveness and know that God has been faithful to forgive us, then He is indeed a faithful husband.

I certainly do believe that Christ died for sinners. But I also believe in a God who claims that sinners will not enter the kingdom of God. That is what Paul wrote. I also believe the same God will allow any sinner who repents to enter.

How can a person who is either not a Christian or a Christian who is a sinner or a habitual sinner who does not repent, enter the kingdom? They can't do it by works or merit. The answer is they don't. I do not know of any passage in Scripture that claims that non-Christians and unrepentant sinners enter the kingdom of God. If they do, is there some clause hidden within Scripture I am missing to the contrary? And if that is the case, why doesn't everyone just do what they want to because they are all going to make it to the kingdom, regardless of lack of any kind of Christian-based morality or faith in Christ.

Matthew 7:13 Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it.

Matthew 7:14 For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.
RickD wrote:I thank God that even though I may commit spiritual adultery, God is the faithful husband who will never divorce us.
God already is a divorcee. He divorced Israel a long time ago.

Jeremiah 3:8 And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.

Granted, He does plan to marry again in the future.
No sarcasm intended.

It all depends on your definition of "repent". What is the definition that you are using?
y:-?


God a 'divorcee'
God hates divorce.

Can God do something he 'hates'?

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Re: Is homosexuality harmful?

#74

Post by RickD » Thu Dec 15, 2016 2:23 pm

Nessa wrote:
RickD wrote:
Katabole wrote:
RickD wrote:So,

As long as we're not "habitual" sinners, we will be saved? So we either have to stop sinning, or it's off to hell with us?

Wow,

You guys and your works gospel sure put burdens on people.

Not sure if you're being sarcastic or not.

I do not believe in a works-based Gospel.

Jesus told people to stop sinning.

John 5:14 Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.

John 8:11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

Everyone sins everyday. If Christ personally warned us to sin no more, we would still sin. However, I would hope as Christians since we sin every day, that we ask God for forgiveness every day as well. I certainly do. I am sure that Paul let the Corinthians know that as well. If we do, God is faithful to forgive our sins, no matter how great or how minor and does not want to hear about them again. That is why prayer is so important. Prayer is a daily part of my life. And if we ask for forgiveness and know that God has been faithful to forgive us, then He is indeed a faithful husband.

I certainly do believe that Christ died for sinners. But I also believe in a God who claims that sinners will not enter the kingdom of God. That is what Paul wrote. I also believe the same God will allow any sinner who repents to enter.

How can a person who is either not a Christian or a Christian who is a sinner or a habitual sinner who does not repent, enter the kingdom? They can't do it by works or merit. The answer is they don't. I do not know of any passage in Scripture that claims that non-Christians and unrepentant sinners enter the kingdom of God. If they do, is there some clause hidden within Scripture I am missing to the contrary? And if that is the case, why doesn't everyone just do what they want to because they are all going to make it to the kingdom, regardless of lack of any kind of Christian-based morality or faith in Christ.

Matthew 7:13 Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it.

Matthew 7:14 For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.
RickD wrote:I thank God that even though I may commit spiritual adultery, God is the faithful husband who will never divorce us.
God already is a divorcee. He divorced Israel a long time ago.

Jeremiah 3:8 And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.

Granted, He does plan to marry again in the future.
No sarcasm intended.

It all depends on your definition of "repent". What is the definition that you are using?
y:-?


God a 'divorcee'
God hates divorce.

Can God do something he 'hates'?
You are correct, miss Vanessa.
1 Corinthians 1:9
9 God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

Audie wrote:
"Christianity is not a joke, but it has some very poor representatives."



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

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Re: Is homosexuality harmful?

#75

Post by Audacity » Thu Dec 15, 2016 3:12 pm

PaulSacramento wrote:
Audacity wrote:
PaulSacramento wrote:A sin is any act ( or thought) that is contrary to what is ideal for humans and against natural law and God's plan for Us.

Homosexuality is a sin because it is not the biological ideal for humans ( can't procreate, leads to diseases, etc) and is against natural law ( humans procreate in a heterosexual way) and against God's plan for us.

Even if one were to no believe in "sin", one would still have to deal with the biological issues of homosexual behavior.
Issues, which are what?

Did you NOT read ANY of this thread ??
Yes I did,

........"Homosexuality is a sin because it is not the biological ideal for humans ( can't procreate, leads to diseases, etc) ........and is against natural law ( humans procreate in a heterosexual way) and against God's plan for us."

but honestly didn't think you could be entirely serious. God made it a sin in part because 6,000 years or so down the road it would lead to AIDs? Really?


"CAN'T PROCREATE"

The current world population is 7,471,421,000+ .The human population in the world is currently (2016) growing at a rate of around 1.13% per year. The current average population change is estimated at around + 80 million per year.
source

Population Growth
........Image

Are you suggesting that we need more people on the earth and we need them faster? Today alone a net number of about 250,000 humans will be added to the planet. If this isn't what you're suggesting then what's your concern about procreation?

"LEADS TO DISEASE"

Homosexuality has indeed increased the amount of HIV victims. But it's in steep decline and is predicted to continue that way.

........Image


IT'S "AGAINST NATURAL LAW"
That's interesting because natural law has seen to it that "1,500 animal species practice homosexuality."
source
Now, if you want to claim that humans are exempt from natural law then go for it. I await your argument.

IT'S "AGAINST GOD'S PLAN FOR US"

Unless you have a copy of god's plan to show us that says "Homosexuality is against my plan" I'll assume you're making it up. And just to be clear, exactly what harm are you talking about here? The same harm that comes from Wearing clothes of the opposite sex, Killing a mother bird in the nest, Despising one's neighbor, and the other sins mentioned in the Bible?
Last edited by Audacity on Thu Dec 15, 2016 4:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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