Which Christianity are you talking about? Your secular-humanist-constitutional protected one?It's very different here, K. And speaking as someone who is discriminated on a continual basis, for my beleifs, in a way that can't be challenged legally, makes me wonder. Because I detest the core principal for which you are appealing here. You are saying it's ok. A Muslim can refuse me a job, a cake, a promotion, in his perfectly good conscience (because really based on what you said, no law applies, each has thier own). he doesn't support my beleif, message or faith or etc.Kurieuo wrote:If anyone supports Dan's above comments, discrimination against Christians and believing they should be charged for sticking to their beliefs and "rightfully so" -- they're a disgrace as a Christian. Disagree with me if you want, sharing my opinion.K wrote:Notwithstanding I don't see any discrimination against a person, you'd consider my non-compliance to create an activist gay website as discrimination, would have me charged, "and rightfully so".D220 wrote:Under the anti discrimination laws you could be charged and rightfully so.Kurieuo wrote:We're talking about cakes here. Now you're moving the goal posts. In cases of violence, you might recall what I wrote a few posts back. This isn't a debating game to me.
I often design websites for people. If a person came to me, wanting me to provide them with a website that is an activist gay website, and I refused, what should my punishment be Dan?
https://www.humanrights.gov.au/employer ... ation-laws
But you could just give no reason for turning it down and that would be acceptable.
Only, you say, unless I remain silent about my reasons.
This speaks volumes to me.
Please, anyone reading, pause... and let what Dan has just said sink in.
Thanks Dan, for showing where you stand. But, I must say I'm quite repulsed and offended that you'd have me (and other Christians and people) punished for holding to their beliefs.
How ironic that you claim to be Christian, and yet would join the world in oppressing of Christians.
If you can't see how extreme your views are, then here I rest.
Really try practicing your christianity in a non-humanist nonsecular country, like mine and then count your blessings because that secular humanist one will look like a paradise.
Based on what you are saying, A Nazi can refuse a Jew, and rightfully so. You may not agree but that is the logical conclusion, sadly, your argument reaches. You are only applying it on Christians, but the logic fails once the shoe is on the other foot.
I am astounded that you can't see where this leads. Rick's answer was no better. I should move out of the country if no one will bake me a cake?
Nor was Mrs. K's, I should bake my own? What's next, they refuse to sell you a car, you're gonna make one yourself as well?
I understand the fear of losing your right or voice. I have gone through it personally. I understand why you guys fear, being forced. Who wouldn't? It is understandable. But what you are proposing is equally disasterous, if not more. Though I doubt you guys see that. Including Phil, who for some instance sees it only as me and Dan thinking of homosexuality as not being a a sin at all. Which is incorrect. I never said that but anyway, lately me and Phil seldom communicate clearly.
I have said that earlier as well, I don't support punishing people, your constitution may say different but I don't. But discrimination is what it is, be it against christians or done by them.
I am not suing anyone, you guys have that luxury, I don't. The discrimination against minorities in my country is, somehow protected legally.You want to sue every business in the country because you can't have a Christian cake? How loving of you.
"Wrong, unfair, unjust, discriminating" are ridiculous when you are talking about cakes.
... maybe I am biased because I love making cakes -- it's a non-issue...
People are not going to die, or have hardships in life because of lack of access to a professionally decorated cake.
You obvously have never been refused a service in a restuarant because of your beliefs, so I am going to cut you some slack and let this go. Just saying, it's only ridiculous when it's not happening to you. Believe me, once it happens to you, not that I wish it, but you will change your tune after that."Wrong, unfair, unjust, discriminating" are ridiculous when you are talking about cakes.
Your, Rick, Phil, K's, argument as it stands, only says to me, is that I am not going to die if a Muslim person refuses me food or service, it's ok to refuse me food or service in a public place because it doesn't align with the serving or owner / person's conscience or beliefs. I should move on, it's not the end of the world. But you can't admit that such is discrimination. Because they will do it to a group of people, holding a specific belief which is in conflict with their own. So you have no where to draw a line and the argument you are trying to hold is shortsighted to say the least.
But the slippery slope that you guys are on, in principal, leads to terrible things. Is that your standard, that unless someone is dying it is ok to refuse them? What if the next thing they refuse you is food? You still side with the argument you made?
I think you guys are blind-sided by either too much liberty or too much fear. But whatever you are saying is simply unfair and impractical.
And by the way, Dan can be emotinal and passionate (I don't mean it as a fault Dan) but he was not the only emotional person in this thread. Really, K, you should read some of your own recent posts. Not that I think it's wrong, just that you had a few too but you kind of belittled Dan's argument based on the emotional charge.