Support Gay Marriage Cakes

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Re: Support Gay Marriage Cakes

#16

Post by RickD » Fri May 29, 2015 4:51 am

Storyteller wrote:Rick, Mrs K....

That`s a really tough one.

To be fair, unless I want to be a hypocrite I would have to, wouldn`t I?

I suppose I could argue that I wouldn`t buy that sort of book to sell but I do get donations of books so what if such a book was among those?
I guess I just think that it isn`t down to me to censor the books I sell but if I chose not to buy such a book to sell in the first place, is that not me censoring them?

I have no idea why someone buys a particular book, maybe they would be buying it for research on a paper, maybe for sinister, evil reasons but I don`t know their reasoning. In the instance of me having such a book in my shop, if it was bought, then I guess I would be thinking long and hard as to whether I should be contacting someone.
Annette,

It doesn't mean you're a hypocrite. It just means you haven't fully thought through your stance to its logical conclusion. My example was just one that I thought may be the line that you wouldn't cross.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

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Re: Support Gay Marriage Cakes

#17

Post by melanie » Fri May 29, 2015 4:51 am

There is a clear distinction here.
Selling a cake supporting gay marraige or selling the Koran in a second hand bookstore is not comparible to selling pedophile material, which is a criminal act. Which crosses internatinal jurisdiction.
The question being asked is would you break internatinal law and risk being persecuted and the subsequent potential violation of a child versus personal views on religious and world view ideals.
I don't think you can really compare such.

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Re: Support Gay Marriage Cakes

#18

Post by RickD » Fri May 29, 2015 4:53 am

melanie wrote:There is a clear distinction here.
Selling a cake supporting gay marraige or selling the Koran in a second hand bookstore is not comparible to selling pedophile material, which is a criminal act. Which crosses internatinal jurisdiction.
The question being asked is would you break internatinal law and risk being persecuted and the subsequent potential violation of a child versus personal views on religious and world view ideals.
I don't think you can really compare such.
But Mel, my hypothetical book is a novel. Not an autobiography. y:-?
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



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Re: Support Gay Marriage Cakes

#19

Post by Kurieuo » Fri May 29, 2015 4:56 am

RickD wrote:
Kurieuo wrote:Omg, I married RickD.
Just as long as everyone knows that you're the effeminate one. 8)

Btw,

I don't even think that's legal in Australia yet. y:-?
Oh, don't you know? We're just a few months away.
The news here is that we don't want to be left behind in the Western world.
So you should be able to move to Australia soon and we can live a happy married life.

Hang on a second. Actually, now I think about it I have enough trouble getting along with my wife.
If you're like her, then... maybe you can take her off my hands instead since you two have such great minds and all. y[-o<
"Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved." (Romans 10:13)

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Re: Support Gay Marriage Cakes

#20

Post by melanie » Fri May 29, 2015 4:57 am

RickD wrote:
Storyteller wrote:Fair points K.

I hadn`t really considered it as the Christians being discriminated against. I suppose it`s a personal thing. While I personally don`t see a problem with the cake, I can respect why as a Christian, someone may have strong views about things like this.

Rick.... I do have a backbone, which is precisely why I will sell any book, regardless of my view on it. Just because I may disagree with the content doesn`t mean I shouldn`t sell it. My bookshop is not the place to make a stand. It is a business.

While I hope that my beliefs wouldn`t sway my decisions on what to sell, I respect the fact that it is other peoples choice whether to sell something or not.
Annette,

Hypothetically,

Would you sell a book by a pedophile that gave instructions on how to lure preteen girls into a van, then gave explicit details of how he raped a dozen young girls? Or would you just leave that up to the book buyer to decide if they want to buy the book?
But Rick you said the author was a pedophile and it was an instruction guide, that doesn't sound like a novel but a how to guide

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Re: Support Gay Marriage Cakes

#21

Post by Storyteller » Fri May 29, 2015 4:58 am

You`ve seen how I display my books!? ;)

I am sure I fail sometimes regarding keeping my personal views seperate BUT I do try not to allow my personal feelings out of it. I sell books, bottom line. If it`s printed and I have a copy I will sell it, whatever it is.

The UK is indeed being taken over it seems. Christianity is fast becoming the minority.

I have mixed feelings on this. I think it`s good that there is room for differing religions, beliefs etc as long as there is respect and tolerance, it`s when one faith wishes to dominate all others that problems arise, I think anyway.

As Christians, if we preach that every other religion is wrong without trying to understand why people believe what they do then we are doing Christianity a dis-service.

As for burning the Koran, never, ever! Not because of the possible repercussions but because I could not bring myself to burn a book, any book. Books are precious things to me.

PS Just seen a load of replies! Will post this then read and respond x
Faith is a knowledge within the heart, beyond the reach of proof - Kahlil Gibran

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Re: Support Gay Marriage Cakes

#22

Post by RickD » Fri May 29, 2015 5:02 am

melanie wrote:
RickD wrote:
Storyteller wrote:Fair points K.

I hadn`t really considered it as the Christians being discriminated against. I suppose it`s a personal thing. While I personally don`t see a problem with the cake, I can respect why as a Christian, someone may have strong views about things like this.

Rick.... I do have a backbone, which is precisely why I will sell any book, regardless of my view on it. Just because I may disagree with the content doesn`t mean I shouldn`t sell it. My bookshop is not the place to make a stand. It is a business.

While I hope that my beliefs wouldn`t sway my decisions on what to sell, I respect the fact that it is other peoples choice whether to sell something or not.
Annette,

Hypothetically,

Would you sell a book by a pedophile that gave instructions on how to lure preteen girls into a van, then gave explicit details of how he raped a dozen young girls? Or would you just leave that up to the book buyer to decide if they want to buy the book?
But Rick you said the author was a pedophile and it was an instruction guide, that doesn't sound like a novel but a how to guide
Mel,
My point was that I was trying to get Annette to see if there was a book that was offensive enough to her that she would refuse to sell it.
Capiche?
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

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Re: Support Gay Marriage Cakes

#23

Post by Storyteller » Fri May 29, 2015 5:03 am

If it was a novel Rick, then yes I`d sell it if I had it. If it was a book containing illegal content (if such exist) then I wouldn`t as I abide by the law. as long as it is legal to sell then I will sell it even if I disagree with the content.

If there is a book that I personally find offensive I would still sell it as it just my view on the book.
Faith is a knowledge within the heart, beyond the reach of proof - Kahlil Gibran

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Re: Support Gay Marriage Cakes

#24

Post by RickD » Fri May 29, 2015 5:04 am

Kurieuo wrote:
RickD wrote:
Kurieuo wrote:Omg, I married RickD.
Just as long as everyone knows that you're the effeminate one. 8)

Btw,

I don't even think that's legal in Australia yet. y:-?
Oh, don't you know? We're just a few months away.
The news here is that we don't want to be left behind in the Western world.
So you should be able to move to Australia soon and we can live a happy married life.

Hang on a second. Actually, now I think about it I have enough trouble getting along with my wife.
If you're like her, then... maybe you can take her off my hands instead since you two have such great minds and all. y[-o<
Would I have to eat that Balut crap?
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

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Re: Support Gay Marriage Cakes

#25

Post by melanie » Fri May 29, 2015 5:05 am

What is more disturbing cakes supporting gay marraige and books on differing religions or a monopoly on free speech, censored literature and the regulation on free thought.
Socialism and communism may be more appealing than I realised :mrgreen: .

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Re: Support Gay Marriage Cakes

#26

Post by RickD » Fri May 29, 2015 5:07 am

Storyteller wrote:If it was a novel Rick, then yes I`d sell it if I had it. If it was a book containing illegal content (if such exist) then I wouldn`t as I abide by the law. as long as it is legal to sell then I will sell it even if I disagree with the content.

If there is a book that I personally find offensive I would still sell it as it just my view on the book.
If it had explicit instructions on how to lure and rape preteen girls, in every gruesome detail? Knowing how offensive it is to you as a Mother of a young daughter, you'd still sell it?

You don't have to answer me. Just think about it.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

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Re: Support Gay Marriage Cakes

#27

Post by RickD » Fri May 29, 2015 5:10 am

melanie wrote:What is more disturbing cakes supporting gay marraige and books on differing religions or a monopoly on free speech, censored literature and the regulation on free thought.
Socialism and communism may be more appealing than I realised :mrgreen: .
Mel,

If for example, Annette refused to sell a certain book that she finds offensive, that isn't censoring literature. The book could still be bought somewhere else. Just like the person buying the cake could go somewhere else. Right?
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

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Re: Support Gay Marriage Cakes

#28

Post by melanie » Fri May 29, 2015 5:11 am

RickD wrote:
melanie wrote:
RickD wrote:
Storyteller wrote:Fair points K.

I hadn`t really considered it as the Christians being discriminated against. I suppose it`s a personal thing. While I personally don`t see a problem with the cake, I can respect why as a Christian, someone may have strong views about things like this.

Rick.... I do have a backbone, which is precisely why I will sell any book, regardless of my view on it. Just because I may disagree with the content doesn`t mean I shouldn`t sell it. My bookshop is not the place to make a stand. It is a business.

While I hope that my beliefs wouldn`t sway my decisions on what to sell, I respect the fact that it is other peoples choice whether to sell something or not.
Annette,

Hypothetically,

Would you sell a book by a pedophile that gave instructions on how to lure preteen girls into a van, then gave explicit details of how he raped a dozen young girls? Or would you just leave that up to the book buyer to decide if they want to buy the book?
But Rick you said the author was a pedophile and it was an instruction guide, that doesn't sound like a novel but a how to guide
Mel,
My point was that I was trying to get Annette to see if there was a book that was offensive enough to her that she would refuse to sell it.
Capiche?
When you are speaking of literature there is a lot of material I find offensive for many varied reasons. As long as no law is broken I believe it should be sold and available.
You compared happy gay cakes and the Koran to illegal, uncomprehensible, violations of pedophiles against children.
Not comparible.

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Re: Support Gay Marriage Cakes

#29

Post by RickD » Fri May 29, 2015 5:17 am

Mel wrote:


When you are speaking of literature there is a lot of material I find offensive for many varied reasons. As long as no law is broken I believe it should be sold and available.
You compared happy gay cakes and the Koran to illegal, uncomprehensible, violations of pedophiles against children.
Not comparible.
But nobody is arguing that the literature shouldn't be sold, nor cakes shouldn't be made. The argument is that we should have the personal choice in our business, not to sell something that goes against our conscience.

If the cake maker was saying that he/she won't make the cake, and that nobody should bake it either, then you'd have a point. It's simply a matter of being able to run a business according to one's conscience. Nobody should be forced to create/sell something that violates their conscience.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

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Re: Support Gay Marriage Cakes

#30

Post by melanie » Fri May 29, 2015 5:17 am

Rick, it is the comparible distiction you drew on that I saw an absurdity in.
Gays and religion compared to sick, illegal, pedophile material on how to lure young girls and rape them.
So where do you draw the line on what's acceptable sellable material.
No brainer

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