Evidence for God from Science

Hello, first I would like to introduce myself as I have just joined this forum. I am relatively new in faith, and I used to be an atheist. But, I found my reasons for being an atheist lied more in the fact of my utter disagreements with religion and it's claims, than with the actual belief in God. And to be honest, in this Postmodernist society, it seems more kids my age lack the belief in God and Jesus and deem it as "uncool".

But now, to the point. Homosexuality is not a sin, it is not a choice, and it is not a sickness or disease. Whomever so thinks any of the aforementioned are the case, then they would be wrong. Not only are they wrong, but I daresay they are not true followers of God. To be completely honest, I believe that not everything in the Bible is innately correct, or meant to be taken literally. After all, it was written by the hand of man, and man is inherently evil.

Now, this has been a question of mine for as long as I can remember. If one is truly a person of God, then why do they blatantly discriminate and harm other human beings whom are homosexual? It even seems to get to the point of hate, which is not what a person of God should be doing. Think really deeply about it, being homosexual is not a choice, and if you believe so then you are an ignorant person. Why would someone choose to be homosexual, knowing that others will surely attack them for it? No, it is not a choice, but a natural phenomenon within nature. So now, I ask why some of you may think that homosexuality is bad, I am eager for reasons.

First of all I would Like to say hello and welcome you to the site, I'm sure you'll love it here. Many of us are just like you, I'd say at least 3/5 of us were atheist at one point.

Now on to topic.

You confuse mainstream Christians with radical Christians like the WBC. We do not hate homosexuals, nor do we discriminate against them.

We disagree with it. We believe it is a sin.

If there was an lying pride parade and a lying rights group we would be just as opposed to it as we are to homosexuality. Homosexuality, is actually, a relatively minor sin, mentioned twice in the OT and once in the NT. But the reason you see Christians opposition to the social norm of homosexuality being deemed and natural is because they are extremely vulgar and offensive and very pushy.
Take there parades for example, open butt sex on a float is not appropriate, nor is it polite to children.
And a thin to remember is being gay itself is not a sin, the sexual acts that take place with it are.

One cannot make an argument against sodomy not being natural, the anatomy of the human body is not fit for it. This leads to many issues such as diseases, the intestine being pulled out (red socking) do to lack of lubrication, feces spilling out. It is very vile.

A thing to remember, god does not "hate" gays, he loves them , we are all sinners, I personally believe gay Christians will receive the kingdom of god. But we cannot ignore gods laws, sodomy is vile and we should not support it.

Gay sex is no less vile than some acts committed by heterosexuals. We are opposed to sodomy as a whole, not just homosexual sodomy. We find it to be a bad thing for children to be exposed to and to take in as normal and natural.

Now onto the topic of choice. It is not a snap of the finger choice. It is a choice of how we react to certain aspects and events of our lives. I have talked with many homosexuals, most all have an event in their life, such as a naughty uncle, or a dad dying while they were young, bullying by girls, the list goes on and on. Do not forget about the changed homosexuals that give proof to this statement that it is a choice, and you can change it. It is hard to change no doubt, it was hard for me to stop be lazy, but with gods help, you can change just about anything.

There is a topic called "gay rights" in case you want to get into that debate.

Being black is not a choice.

What a person does with their sexual organs is most definately a choice.


Is this verse the product of evil men? (John 3:16)

jlay wrote:Being black is not a choice.

What a person does with their sexual organs is most definately a choice.

And this is why so called "gay rights" will never be the equalivilant of other civil rights movements. Being gay a proven choice, being black or being a women is not.

Blacks fought for freedom, suffrage, and equal rights.

Gays have every single right, plus extra ones that normal people do not have and yet they still complain. Marriage is not a right, nor was it ment for homosexuals. "gay rights" is just a cover name for a movement to legitalimize homosexual sex. They fight for no rights, just try to attempt to shove their un-natural life style into the minds of children.

Murray wrote:There is a topic called "gay rights" in case you want to get into that debate.

This topic was more about attitude than rights, that is a whole different issue and I didn't want to address too much, just one thing at a time.

I'm glad that you believe that gay Christians will go to Heaven. To me it is whatever you do in the bedroom stays in the bedroom, including sodomy. Personally, I think sodomy is disgusting, to a male or female. And is being gay a choice? I don't think so, but we will never know.

As for the Bible, I said that not everything in it could be true. As for the stories about Jesus, I believe those to be quite true, as well as many others. But some seem a bit twisted or wrong to me.

There is very little evidence that people are born gay or that a gay gene. Most of the research done on the gay gene is questionable at best. Some people say they have been gay their entire life yet there are others that have left homosexuality.
But even if it is proven that people are born Gay. That still doesn’t mean that homosexuality is wrong or unnatural. Fist off ever one is born a sinner so does that mean that sin is good? Even if one is born gay that doesn’t mean they can’t stop practicing homosexuality or change their lifestyle. (Here’s a quote I found on the internet) “There MAY BE a gay gene. People MAY BE born gay. That doesn't change God's commands as to how we should live, nor does it change the fact that God has a plan for their lives.”
As Christians we should love sinners because we are sinners ourselves. The bible commands this. However that doesn’t mean that we can’t disagree with something or even say it is wrong. A lot of people confuse disagreement with hate. Also allowing people to be ignorant about their sin is the most dangerous and possibly hateful thing we can do. It shows that we don’t care enough about people to allow them to accept the gift of eternal salvation. We don’t care that they are going to surfer in hell
Granted there is a right way and a bad way to tell people about their sin. You don’t want to be rude, obnoxious, self righteous and mean. You want to be gentile and kind. However you shouldn’t be afraid to tell them about their sin because it might offend them.
Homosexuality is not a special sin. Like all sin it has to be dealt with through the blood of Jesus Christ and turned away from. It is a continuous struggle to resist temptation but with the help of the Holy Spirit it can be done.
As for the argument that homosexuality can’t be a choice because why would anybody choose to be gay and surfer ridicule and hate. Well why would people choose to steal or commit adultery? All sin has consequences yet people still commit sin, many will risk shame, punishment and their eternal soul because the pleasure out ways the risk or they don’t care
Finally the bible clearly says homosexuality is a sin, the bible is the word of God so therefore in the eyes of our Just and Holy God homosexuality is a sin.
I would like to recommend a book to you called the Gay Gospel by Joe Dallas. Maybe it will help answer some questions about homosexuality and Christianity.

Quick question of clarification - http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/sodomy

1.
anal or oral copulation with a member of the opposite sex.
2.
copulation with a member of the same sex.
3.
bestiality ( def. 4 ) .

Which definition are we talking about? Only the second?

Hello, first I would like to introduce myself as I have just joined this forum. I am relatively new in faith, and I used to be an atheist. But, I found my reasons for being an atheist lied more in the fact of my utter disagreements with religion and it's claims, than with the actual belief in God. And to be honest, in this Postmodernist society, it seems more kids my age lack the belief in God and Jesus and deem it as "uncool".

But now, to the point. Homosexuality is not a sin, it is not a choice, and it is not a sickness or disease. Whomever so thinks any of the aforementioned are the case, then they would be wrong. Not only are they wrong, but I daresay they are not true followers of God. To be completely honest, I believe that not everything in the Bible is innately correct, or meant to be taken literally. After all, it was written by the hand of man, and man is inherently evil.

Now, this has been a question of mine for as long as I can remember. If one is truly a person of God, then why do they blatantly discriminate and harm other human beings whom are homosexual? It even seems to get to the point of hate, which is not what a person of God should be doing. Think really deeply about it, being homosexual is not a choice, and if you believe so then you are an ignorant person. Why would someone choose to be homosexual, knowing that others will surely attack them for it? No, it is not a choice, but a natural phenomenon within nature. So now, I ask why some of you may think that homosexuality is bad, I am eager for reasons.

It is simply unnatural and now you may say that in the animal kingdom, (as in nature) we do say gay animals. well, even if you do that does not make it natural. I mean, I see rapists, it would be like saying that rape is natural because some humans practice it.

It always begins with choice, one may not be conscious of that choice BUT if this is not a choice then what is it? It is certainly not something that you are born with. There is no such thing to prove it. Sexual orientation is not embedded in us. but our organs tell us what they are used for. A male copulating with a male is not natural because the male organ is designed to go with it female counter part and hence enable reproduction. I mean you do not have to know rocket science to know this little thing. Gay sex is a preference. When you say it is natural, that is just a sloppy excuse for gay sex.

@ Murray

I personally believe gay Christians will receive the kingdom of god.

I agree on everything you said in your post except the quote above. Can you elaborate on this please? Perhaps some biblical backing up. I am not sure I am following you here in being consistent with the scriptures. Thank you.

I believe that not everything in the Bible is innately correct

To believe that much of or large portions of the Bible are incorrect is to also believe that God could create our extraordinary universe and literally speak uncountable species and their dependent physics and chemistries into existence, but that yet He didn't have the power to protect His words to man, recorded in the Bible. Not only absurd is it to think He didn't have the ABILITY to protect His word, but also that He wouldn't think His word to man IMPORTANT ENOUGH to protect! Did God haphazardly throw His word to earth as a drunk throws a beer can from his car window? Did He not care where it landed, in what shape, or about and to whom would receive it? A Lord that can create a universe - that created on the unfathomable level of detail found in interplanetary and terrestrial processes necessary to support life as we know it - is a God Who pays amazingly incomprehensible attention to tiniest of details. So does such a detail-loving God sound like He would be casual about what has happened to His word? Such is UNTHINKABLE!It's the very same logic of people who DO believe that God created the universe but yet that even still will DOUBT that Jesus could have turned water to wine or have performed any of His recorded miracles. Such thinking is totally illogical! I often think of a deist like Thomas Jefferson, such a brilliant man on so many levels, who obviously believed in a creator (yet not in a personal God) responsible for the MIRACULOUS universe - yet he doubted the miracles of scripture so much that he cut those portions from his Bible, thinking them improbable if not impossible. Amazing - and VERY stupid!

neo-x wrote:

@ Murray

I personally believe gay Christians will receive the kingdom of god.

I agree on everything you said in your post except the quote above. Can you elaborate on this please? Perhaps some biblical backing up. I am not sure I am following you here in being consistent with the scriptures. Thank you.

Christians are all sinners correct? We all sin almost daily, we lie , we cheat sometimes, we maybe use the lord name in vein. Now how is lying different from homosexuality? Does the god put homosexuality above all other sins?

A gay christian begs forgiveness for sins, even ones that he is not aware of, he has recieved jesus, and jesus saves.

If you are going to quote corinthians 6:9-10 likeI think you are, let me elaborate on that. Before homosexuality, it states sexual immorality. Do you believe that 60% of christians that have sex out of marriage, have oral sex, ect.. are going to go to hell? Because the 2 are grouped together in the same verse.

Remember, jesus said we would be surprised at who we see in heaven.

Honestly, would you rather be in heaven with a member of WBC or a gay christians?

However, there is a big difference between someone who struggles with sin and is a christian, than someone who lives in sin and claims to be a christian.

Would you believe Mr.Bob if he said he was a christian, yet you see him stealing from the store on a regular basis and feels no need to ask God for forgiveness?

So, I do not think that a "gay christian" is possible, rather I feel that a "christian who struggles with homosexual tendencies" is truly a Christian.

Alpha~Omega wrote:

Alpha~Omega wrote:So, I do not think that a "gay christian" is possible, rather I feel that a "christian who struggles with homosexual tendencies" is truly a Christian.

I think this is equivocating somewhat. If a gay man trusts in Christ he is saved. A gay man who trusts in Christ would automatically struggle with his sin. If this gay man stumbles and continues in his illicit practices then his salvation is not in question. Just as an adulterous Christian's salvation is not in question. Internally the gay man who has trusted in Christ will be in conflict. This is a sign of his salvation. The rest is nothing to do with us. If we see John the gay Christian stumble and pick up Fred in a nightclub then we cannot know of the conflict within this Christian’s heart.

Danny wrote:

If we see John the gay Christian stumble and pick up Fred in a nightclub then we cannot know of the conflict within this Christian’s heart.

Danny, what are you doing in a gay nightclub, anyways?

RickD wrote:Danny wrote:

If we see John the gay Christian stumble and pick up Fred in a nightclub then we cannot know of the conflict within this Christian’s heart.

Danny, what are you doing in a gay nightclub, anyways?

Funny story: me and some mates fell into a gay club one night... Happy to say I wasn't converted