Where do you guys stand?

Discussion for Christian perspectives on ethical issues such as abortion, euthanasia, sexuality, and so forth.
User avatar
Big Al
Newbie Member
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2011 3:26 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Undecided
Location: God's footstool
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0

Where do you guys stand?

#1

Post by Big Al » Sun Jul 24, 2011 4:12 pm

Where do you guys stand on the topic of masturbation. I have seen evidence that says it is ok from a biblical standpoint and testimonies from people that say it can really [love you] up. What is your opinion?

Danieltwotwenty
Ultimate Member
Posts: 2879
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2011 3:01 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Theistic Evolution
Location: Aussie Land
Has liked: 37 times
Been liked: 11 times

Re: Where do you guys stand?

#2

Post by Danieltwotwenty » Sun Jul 24, 2011 6:46 pm

Hi Big Al
I am kind neutral on the subject, but since becoming a Christain i no longer feel the need to do so.
I would rather save myself for my wife.
I am interested to see both sides of the argument though.
Just a thought, masturbation is only about lust and not love so i guess it would be sinful?? maybe??

Your Friend in Christ
Daniel
1Tim1:15-17
Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners of whom I am the worst. But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life. Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever.Amen.

User avatar
Big Al
Newbie Member
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2011 3:26 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Undecided
Location: God's footstool
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0

Re: Where do you guys stand?

#3

Post by Big Al » Sun Jul 24, 2011 9:01 pm

Danieltwotwenty wrote:Hi Big Al
I am kind neutral on the subject, but since becoming a Christain i no longer feel the need to do so.
I would rather save myself for my wife.
I am interested to see both sides of the argument though.
Just a thought, masturbation is only about lust and not love so i guess it would be sinful?? maybe??

Your Friend in Christ
Daniel
I agree with you on remaining neutral on the subject but one argument was that it didn't have to involve lustful thoughts but just a means of "relieving sexual tension." I also read that some Protestant theologians said it was alright. Here is one of their quotes,
"Masturbation can be a healthy, enjoyable way for a person without a sexual partner to experience sexual gratification. Since God has created humans as sexual beings, masturbation provides a way for individuals to experience their sexuality and meet their sexual needs. (p. 246)

Jesus warns that lust leads to adultery, and adultery is sin. However, lusting is not the same as fantasizing ...

Fantasies about future possibilities are usually benign.... Desiring a specific person, and directing on ways to fulfill the desire, is a form of lust. Fantasy, on the other hand, is more general and does not include attempts at achieving that exact fantasy." (p. 247)

User avatar
Canuckster1127
Old School
Posts: 5306
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2006 11:31 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Day-Age
Location: Tulsa, OK
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 2 times

Re: Where do you guys stand?

#4

Post by Canuckster1127 » Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:47 am

I think it falls into a similar category as eating meat offered to idols. Each person needs to follow their own conscience. I don't believe it's always wrong. I think a lot of it has to do with whether it's tied to a pattern of lust or ideation that become addictive or habit forming, which for some people it does. For some who have issues in this area, complete abstinence is a good idea. For others, it's not necessarily an issue. Best just to keep one's eyes on Christ and work it out individually.
Dogmatism is the comfortable intellectual framework of self-righteousness. Self-righteousness is more decadent than the worst sexual sin. ~ Dan Allender

//bartsbarometer.com/

User avatar
jlay
Ultimate Member
Posts: 3616
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2009 2:47 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Young-Earth Creationist
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 9 times

Re: Where do you guys stand?

#5

Post by jlay » Mon Jul 25, 2011 10:18 am

Big Al,
Where you from?
-“The Bible treated allegorically becomes putty in the hands of the exegete.” John Walvoord

"I'm not saying scientists don't overstate their results. They do. And it's understandable, too...If you spend years working toward a certain goal and make no progress, of course you are going to spin your results in a positive light." Ivellious

User avatar
Big Al
Newbie Member
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2011 3:26 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Undecided
Location: God's footstool
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0

Re: Where do you guys stand?

#6

Post by Big Al » Mon Jul 25, 2011 11:20 am

Jlay,
Why do you want to know where I'm from? y:-?

User avatar
jlay
Ultimate Member
Posts: 3616
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2009 2:47 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Young-Earth Creationist
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 9 times

Re: Where do you guys stand?

#7

Post by jlay » Sat Jul 30, 2011 10:23 am

Because I know a Big Al from Tennessee.
-“The Bible treated allegorically becomes putty in the hands of the exegete.” John Walvoord

"I'm not saying scientists don't overstate their results. They do. And it's understandable, too...If you spend years working toward a certain goal and make no progress, of course you are going to spin your results in a positive light." Ivellious

User avatar
Big Al
Newbie Member
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2011 3:26 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Undecided
Location: God's footstool
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0

Re: Where do you guys stand?

#8

Post by Big Al » Sat Jul 30, 2011 10:06 pm

Yeah I'm not from Tennessee.

User avatar
Murray
Esteemed Senior Member
Posts: 1102
Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2011 3:54 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Undecided
Location: Williston, North Dakota
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0
Contact:

Re: Where do you guys stand?

#9

Post by Murray » Mon Aug 01, 2011 3:34 pm

If your half asleep and do to get to sleep I truley do not think it would be to much of an issue, but I mean doing it randomly and without reason other than lust I can see a bit of "lust of the flesh" sin going on.

The other thing is , "cronic" masterbation can lead to unhealthy social lives, so , you know, to much of somethin is bad.

So my stance is , to get to sleep sure, other than that , I guess its ok as long as its not daily :econfused:
in nomine patri et fili spiritu sancte

User avatar
Reactionary
Senior Member
Posts: 534
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2011 3:56 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Day-Age
Location: Republic of Croatia
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0

Re: Where do you guys stand?

#10

Post by Reactionary » Mon Aug 08, 2011 4:11 am

I see that I agree with most of you guys. I don't see it as a big issue, the only danger is if you become addicted to it, or if it affects your everyday life. People shouldn't exaggerate with anything, be it sports, TV, Internet, even oxygen could be harmful if you breathe it like crazy. As for masturbation in general, I think it's relatively OK if you realize that your fantasies are exactly that - fantasies, which are separated from reality and shouldn't adversely affect your relationship with the opposite sex.
"Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces." Matthew 7:6

"For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse." Romans 1:20

--Reactionary

User avatar
Murray
Esteemed Senior Member
Posts: 1102
Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2011 3:54 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Undecided
Location: Williston, North Dakota
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0
Contact:

Re: Where do you guys stand?

#11

Post by Murray » Mon Aug 08, 2011 7:10 am

Reactionary wrote:I see that I agree with most of you guys. I don't see it as a big issue, the only danger is if you become addicted to it, or if it affects your everyday life. People shouldn't exaggerate with anything, be it sports, TV, Internet, even oxygen could be harmful if you breathe it like crazy. As for masturbation in general, I think it's relatively OK if you realize that your fantasies are exactly that - fantasies, which are separated from reality and shouldn't adversely affect your relationship with the opposite sex.

I do have a question however as I've thought about this more.

1) Isnt it lust of the flesh

2) we can sin in our thoughts against others correct? So would't thinking lustfully be a sin as well?
in nomine patri et fili spiritu sancte

User avatar
Reactionary
Senior Member
Posts: 534
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2011 3:56 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Day-Age
Location: Republic of Croatia
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0

Re: Where do you guys stand?

#12

Post by Reactionary » Mon Aug 08, 2011 7:27 am

Murray wrote:I do have a question however as I've thought about this more.

1) Isnt it lust of the flesh

2) we can sin in our thoughts against others correct? So would't thinking lustfully be a sin as well?
Good question. I think we need to precisely define "thinking lustfully" in order to get an answer. I think fantasizing doesn't necessarily involve lust, especially if you have no intention of turning it into reality. The problem is if you prefer masturbation over a real relationship, or if you become addicted to it. A bit of imagination is mostly harmless, I believe that once you know how to differ the realm of reality from the realm of imagination, you have no problems. However, that's just my view. I would definitely like to see more opinions.
"Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces." Matthew 7:6

"For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse." Romans 1:20

--Reactionary

User avatar
jlay
Ultimate Member
Posts: 3616
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2009 2:47 pm
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Young-Earth Creationist
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 9 times

Re: Where do you guys stand?

#13

Post by jlay » Mon Aug 08, 2011 12:22 pm

Reactionary,

How would you interpret this verse.
Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death. James 1:15

Can you help understand how you are separating lust and sexual fantasizing?
-“The Bible treated allegorically becomes putty in the hands of the exegete.” John Walvoord

"I'm not saying scientists don't overstate their results. They do. And it's understandable, too...If you spend years working toward a certain goal and make no progress, of course you are going to spin your results in a positive light." Ivellious

User avatar
Reactionary
Senior Member
Posts: 534
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2011 3:56 am
Christian: Yes
Sex: Male
Creation Position: Day-Age
Location: Republic of Croatia
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0

Re: Where do you guys stand?

#14

Post by Reactionary » Tue Aug 09, 2011 1:51 am

jlay wrote:Reactionary,

How would you interpret this verse.
Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death. James 1:15

Can you help understand how you are separating lust and sexual fantasizing?
I see James 1 talking about temptations in general.

By the way, since "lust" is defined as:

1 very strong sexual desire, especially when love is not involved
2 very strong desire for sth or enjoyment of sth
to satisfy his lust for power
She has a real lust for life (=she really enjoys life)


How do we know it means specifically sexual lust? Furthermore, the equivalent of that word in my language (used in the translation of my Bible) can also mean sexual or any other type of desire. Sex isn't mentioned earlier in James 1, so I don't currently have a reason to assume that it refers specifically to it. At least not from the perspective of our languages. The message, however, stands: uncontrolled lust brings sin, which leads to breakdown. That's why I said that imagination should be kept confined, so that it doesn't spiral out of control and deteriorate the person. I don't see anything good in supressing it, this can only cause problems in my opinion. Such thoughts will come, especially if you're young, now I suppose you could bang your head against a wall to punish yourself, castrate yourself, or figure out a way to deal with it. I don't know a better approach. Please let me know if you do.

How do I separate lust and fantasizing? Lust is, in my opinion, a realistic desire of fulfilling a certain fantasy. That is, you won't hesitate to fulfill it if chance arises. Fantasizing, on the other hand, means that you understand that thoughts in your head are merely thoughts that shouldn't be seriously considered, since this specific kind of thoughts are mostly motivated by chemical/hormonal activity, not by reason. This sort of reduction to mere thoughts has helped me a lot when dealing with irrational desires in general, fears, obsessions etc.
"Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces." Matthew 7:6

"For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse." Romans 1:20

--Reactionary

Jonouchi Katsuya
Established Member
Posts: 108
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2011 9:27 pm
Christian: No
Sex: Female
Creation Position: Undecided
Has liked: 0
Been liked: 0

Re: Where do you guys stand?

#15

Post by Jonouchi Katsuya » Sun Aug 14, 2011 4:11 am

Do you know how many men/boys I know who masturbate on a daily basis? They are still quite capable of going about their daily lives. Masturbating frequently does not necessarily equate to an addiction. The majority of people who masturbate don't become addicted. It can actually be rather unhealthy for a man not to relieve himself (by either sex or masturbation) when he needs it. When he needs it is kind of something up to him. We all know (or should know) that erections occur naturally and don't necessarily go away when you "just don't think about it." From a Christian stand-point, I think that as long as you're not intentionally trying to arouse yourself (ie; watching porn), it should be fine.

Personally, I don't mind at all if people watch porn or otherwise arouse themselves, but this is a Christian website and I'm trying to remain objective.
Hi I am a Buddhist and I seek enlightenment. I do not know everything. I do not pretend to know everything. I desire strongly to discuss the Bible as you see it. Please correct me when I get something wrong.

Post Reply