Is "self defence" fine or wrong?

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Ngakunui
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Is "self defence" fine or wrong?

#1

Post by Ngakunui » Fri Jun 05, 2009 9:45 pm

While I can't see it as murder or whatnot, it's bothered me for a long time if I'm misinterpreting it. You know what I'm talking about; the parts where Jesus tells people to "turn the other cheek", as well as that part when... I don't remember whom it was cuts off that other guy's ear.

A preacher at a Baptist church told me the "turn the other cheek" thing meant not to rebuke someone for defaming you if you are being defamed- while I agree this is good advice, he also tells me that Jesus is going to "teleportal us out liek scotty", so to speak "before the Antichrist comes", which is why I'm unsure if he's right. Also, I remember reading Luke, in which Jesus says "But now, if you don't have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.", and he says "enough of this!" before being arrested rather than something along the lines of "don't draw the sword, or you'll die by it". So if you'll excuse my vaguely ineloquent language, would someone kindly tell me what exactly the verses in question are referring to?

It's really bothered me for a while, because I've had this sword (precisely, a machete) in my room recently due to there being a giant six-foot long snake terrorizing my family's home for a few minutes before leaving. If a human being were to break in, I'd naturally kill him in an instant as to stop him from doing any damage to anyone or thing. Then I read said verses and the chapters before and after them, and it makes me quite confused.

So would someone explain to me what exactly the bible means on this subject?

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Re: Is "self defence" fine or wrong?

#2

Post by B. W. » Sat Jun 06, 2009 3:17 pm

Hi Ngakunui,

Please read ECC 3:1-10 for your answer.

There is a time and season for every purpose under heaven. Also read Luke 22:35-36 - why would Jesus say these things if not the time of season was changing? It is the balance of scripture that helps clarify these issues of when to turn the cheek or not. The founding Fathers of the United States wrestled with these same issue concerning a time for war or turning of the cheek...
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Re: Is "self defence" fine or wrong?

#3

Post by ageofknowledge » Mon Jun 08, 2009 10:02 pm

The American Revolution certainly did have it's share of Christians involved; However, the American Revolution was not about Christianity but about the nation's freedom from England.

You should try to live at peace with all men as far as you can but you do have a right to legitimate self-defense (though not revenge) for both yourself and innocents should you choose to exercise it. Take care though as there very well may be consequences. Of course, there will be consequences if it becomes necessary to exercise lawful legitimate self-defense and you don't.

I'm originally from Los Angeles and have been in many dangerous and life threatening situations when I was younger before I began following Christ. I've drawn blood and had blood drawn by my enemies. These things escalate, people arm themselves, and a cycle of violence begins. Life becomes a struggle for survival. My advice is to keep your eyes on God and seek peace as far as you can. Sometimes simply disengaging from situations and the people involved in them and spending your time pursuing God, Church, getting people to pray and support you, etc... works miracles. I've seen plenty of them and yes I attended Victory Outreach for a few years.

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Re: Is "self defence" fine or wrong?

#4

Post by Ngakunui » Mon Jun 08, 2009 11:49 pm

I suppose y'all are right. There have been various times when I've come close to being killed by domestic animals and humans- and If I'd not fought, I'd have died a rather slow and violent death. I'm worried that I don't exactly have it in me to take a life, though; because of all the times I've taken up arms, and worn out various living things, I've never killed any- set aside from thousands of arachnids and bugs. Not to say I haven't come close, but I honestly hope the day never comes where I have to kill someone. Years of resisting government indoctrination and being beaten up in a public school until I was roughly ten made it clear to me that the World is full of violent imbeciles that sadly require I fight to survive at times.

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Re: Is "self defence" fine or wrong?

#5

Post by ageofknowledge » Tue Jun 09, 2009 9:47 am

Yes it is tragic. I find adult life easier in that regard.

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Re: Is "self defence" fine or wrong?

#6

Post by Lorden » Wed Jun 10, 2009 12:03 pm

In My Opinion, I say self defense is Fine.

Its instinct, its natural, everyone wants to live...and those who don't, im sorry.

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Re: Is "self defence" fine or wrong?

#7

Post by nitetime » Fri Jun 26, 2009 8:51 pm

I have come to the belief that Jesus has shown us by his life that we can resist nonviolently. In John 18:36 he states that his kingdom is not of this world and is governed by a higher principal. Also fear not the one that can kill the body but rather fear God.

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Re: Is "self defence" fine or wrong?

#8

Post by qqMOARpewpew » Wed Dec 02, 2009 7:09 pm

Ngakunui wrote:
It's really bothered me for a while, because I've had this sword (precisely, a machete) in my room recently due to there being a giant six-foot long snake terrorizing my family's home for a few minutes before leaving. If a human being were to break in, I'd naturally kill him in an instant as to stop him from doing any damage to anyone or thing. Then I read said verses and the chapters before and after them, and it makes me quite confused.
If a human were to break into your house you would kill him on the spot? No threatening him first, no knocking him out, just go straight for the kill?

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Re: Is "self defence" fine or wrong?

#9

Post by ageofknowledge » Wed Dec 02, 2009 7:37 pm

qqMOARpewpew wrote:
Ngakunui wrote:
It's really bothered me for a while, because I've had this sword (precisely, a machete) in my room recently due to there being a giant six-foot long snake terrorizing my family's home for a few minutes before leaving. If a human being were to break in, I'd naturally kill him in an instant as to stop him from doing any damage to anyone or thing. Then I read said verses and the chapters before and after them, and it makes me quite confused.
If a human were to break into your house you would kill him on the spot? No threatening him first, no knocking him out, just go straight for the kill?
I'm assuming you mean if we got the drop on him and not the other way around. Depends if he's armed or not. If he breaks into my house armed, he's getting carried out.

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Re: Is "self defence" fine or wrong?

#10

Post by qqMOARpewpew » Wed Dec 02, 2009 7:50 pm

ageofknowledge wrote:
qqMOARpewpew wrote:
Ngakunui wrote:
It's really bothered me for a while, because I've had this sword (precisely, a machete) in my room recently due to there being a giant six-foot long snake terrorizing my family's home for a few minutes before leaving. If a human being were to break in, I'd naturally kill him in an instant as to stop him from doing any damage to anyone or thing. Then I read said verses and the chapters before and after them, and it makes me quite confused.
If a human were to break into your house you would kill him on the spot? No threatening him first, no knocking him out, just go straight for the kill?
I'm assuming you mean if we got the drop on him and not the other way around. Depends if he's armed or not. If he breaks into my house armed, he's getting carried out.
Well yeah if he has a gun and you have a machete you had best go for the kill or at least disarming him. If he was some homeless guy, unarmed who was looking for food? Just tell him to get out with machete in hand. Its 100% situational.
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Re: Is "self defence" fine or wrong?

#11

Post by GlowingBeard » Tue Dec 22, 2009 8:23 am

I have always found self-defense to be a just action. If it leads to death, I'd likely concider it to be a form of execution(concidering they attempted to murder/cause severe harm to you or a loved one.) But a good thing I try to keep in mind is this; as with every just act, mercy must be present. Punish equal or less to what has been wronged to you.

I hope this helps.

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Re: Is "self defence" fine or wrong?

#12

Post by ageofknowledge » Tue Dec 22, 2009 11:29 pm

qqMOARpewpew wrote:
ageofknowledge wrote:
qqMOARpewpew wrote:
Ngakunui wrote:
It's really bothered me for a while, because I've had this sword (precisely, a machete) in my room recently due to there being a giant six-foot long snake terrorizing my family's home for a few minutes before leaving. If a human being were to break in, I'd naturally kill him in an instant as to stop him from doing any damage to anyone or thing. Then I read said verses and the chapters before and after them, and it makes me quite confused.
If a human were to break into your house you would kill him on the spot? No threatening him first, no knocking him out, just go straight for the kill?
I'm assuming you mean if we got the drop on him and not the other way around. Depends if he's armed or not. If he breaks into my house armed, he's getting carried out.
Well yeah if he has a gun and you have a machete you had best go for the kill or at least disarming him. If he was some homeless guy, unarmed who was looking for food? Just tell him to get out with machete in hand. Its 100% situational.
I don't own a machete. That's an MS-13 thing. I'm a middle-aged sick white man with a disability. So I'm not going to engage in hand-to-hand combat either like I used to because today I'll lose. So let's see what's left that makes sense? Bang bang. I hope and pray I'll never be forced to use it by a home invading perp. Hopefully they'll limit themselves to just periodically breaking into and smashing the windows on my truck something they seem to get a lot mileage from.

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Re: Is "self defence" fine or wrong?

#13

Post by Angellicrequiem » Tue May 25, 2010 8:30 am

It seems to me that it is the right of the strong to defend and uphold the weak. Some of us are born to protect and defend. I will say that though I have acted only when absolutely necessary, should at the end of my days God find me unworthy because of it, I will accept whatever judgment I have earned.

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Re: Is "self defence" fine or wrong?

#14

Post by Ngakunui » Sat May 29, 2010 2:24 am

In case any of you have wondered, I got an actual, real sword a few days back. It's the same type of short sword people would have owned back in Roman times, and cut peoples' ears off with. Except this one was made in Pakistan, like half of all weapons now, but that's just the way things are, I guess.

Just figured I'd play it safe, and get the exact type of weapon Jesus was probably thinking about when he said that verse. Though a .357 would have been preferable, personally.

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Re: Is "self defence" fine or wrong?

#15

Post by Canuckster1127 » Sat May 29, 2010 3:03 pm

The early Church took Jesus's statement at face value to the point of martyrdom and refusing military service. It wasn't until later that theologians provided the concept of just war and returned to the OT to attempt to qualify what Christ said. There's even tradition from Church History that suggests that much of the rationalization for this approach finds its roots in Islam and was adopted by Christendom in response to the militarism and spread of Islam into Europe.

It's not an easy question. There's no question however that the early Church viewed it very differently then the typical western Christian today and at the very least I think that demands some prayerful consideration on our part as to whether we're rationalizing away something that was integral to Jesus' teachings and values as to the nature of his Kingdom and the practices of those who profess to know and follow Him.
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