Ethics on killing?

Discussion for Christian perspectives on ethical issues such as abortion, euthanasia, sexuality, and so forth.
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#46

Post by SourceofLiFe » Fri Dec 31, 2004 12:23 pm

Mastermind wrote:Girl put herself in the situation? You mean asked to be raped? Because if she asks, then it's not really rape, and no longer a problem...
Once again Mastermind, your perception is flaw.

The girl put herself into those situation by not taking public routes where there are many people actively passing through. If the girl took proper measurement, such as not going out late at night or taking routes where there isn't any people, then it would not have occured.

Do you think the situation you presented would take place on a public place such as a mall during day time?

Of course not.

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#47

Post by Mastermind » Fri Dec 31, 2004 12:31 pm

So you're saying it would be her fault, and because she made a mistake, she doesn't deserve help?

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#48

Post by SourceofLiFe » Sat Jan 01, 2005 2:50 pm

Mastermind wrote:So you're saying it would be her fault, and because she made a mistake, she doesn't deserve help?
What do you consider as help?

Having her relying on you everytime?

True help is the ability to give the person strength to help themselves. How much abilities do you and I both have?
Not much, why not let God help instead?

Are you implying that you are more powerful than God?

The way I see it is, the best help is direct the person to God, that way God can help the person everytime.


That is real help.

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#49

Post by Mastermind » Sat Jan 01, 2005 4:49 pm

Oh, so now I'm supposed to know she has other problems, psychically predict she's going to be in trouble, further use my newly developed psychic powers to figure out where she is, then try to help her without looking insane. Brilliant plan. This still doesn't explain how it's her fault. People should be able to walk anywhere, day or night, no matter what neighborhood without worrying that they're going to get attacked. So yes, I'd help her whether she has common sense or not. And I would appreciate it if you stopped judging me, something you've been doing ever since you started posting here. Where do you come up with stuff like "I'm acting like I'm better than God". God has given EVERYBODY some abilities. This is common sense. If I need to eat, I don't drop on my knees and pray to God to materialize food before me, I go prepare it myself and thank God for giving me the ability to do it.

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#50

Post by Anonymous » Sat Jan 01, 2005 7:25 pm

I really see something that concerns me in this thread. It seems that many believe Christ would have us be passive and not take an physically active participation in events around us. I do agree we should pray and endlessly but Christ acted in many situations. He threw the money changers out of the church, He stoped the people from stoning the harlot. Now the harlot was found in her sin. It wasn't a question of if she sinned or even if by the law she should be stoned. By law they were to stone her. Christ acted in a physical way. Christ in his very coming into the world in a body shows God desires to act in the world in a physical way. Did not Christ appoint us as his Body and then said the Holy Spirit would be his action in spirit. This leads me to believe we are to act as Gods body or physical action by the guidance of the Holy Spirit and his word. I am not suggesting we are God or equal to God. I am suggesting God expects us to act physical in the world based on what we understand He would have us do. Should we have a church building to meet in? Then someone must build the building in the physical way. If we agree that to act in a physical way is our Christian duty where do we draw the line? I think the line must be drawn in the same place as any choice, what would God have me do and then how can I best love my brother. Loving my brother does not always being nice or passive to him. Sometimes love is harsh. God in His love for us will chastise us. It may appear to my brother and everyone else that I am being mean when I am acting in love. Gods love for Job was not understood by any of Jobs friends or Job but we can see Gods favor in Job today. Surly as a parent this happens when we correct our children. They think at the time we must hate them but in truth we act in love.
I would really like to understand from those who say we can not act in a physical way against someone else, how do we justify our inactivity? I see that many believe to act in a physical way is simple justification of an evil desire to our own selfishness but cant ANY act or inactivity be seen by a outsider as vanity?
Boiled down.
Do we act in a physical way for Christ. If yes, how? If no, why not? Are we the body of Christ? I understand this thread is on murder vs kill but it seems to have lead to:
One, a legal definition of the original text. I think we see where legalism of Gods word leads, ie the church just prior to Christ.
Second a question do we act in a physical way based on spiritual convictions. I really see total lack of physical inforcement of moral code as allowing anarchy. Should there be no law inforcement? I really want to understand the opposite view point, it truly scares me that passiveness seems to always be equal to Christianity. I cant understand that. Please :roll: let me hear what you think.

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#51

Post by Anonymous » Sun Jan 02, 2005 12:33 am

I'm not endorsing passiveness, i'm merely saying that as God shows mercy towards us, so must we toward mankind. Again this doesn't mean passiveness at all, rather the view point against killing.

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#52

Post by SourceofLiFe » Sun Jan 02, 2005 12:28 pm

Mastermind wrote:Oh, so now I'm supposed to know she has other problems, psychically predict she's going to be in trouble, further use my newly developed psychic powers to figure out where she is, then try to help her without looking insane. Brilliant plan. This still doesn't explain how it's her fault. People should be able to walk anywhere, day or night, no matter what neighborhood without worrying that they're going to get attacked. So yes, I'd help her whether she has common sense or not. And I would appreciate it if you stopped judging me, something you've been doing ever since you started posting here. Where do you come up with stuff like "I'm acting like I'm better than God". God has given EVERYBODY some abilities. This is common sense. If I need to eat, I don't drop on my knees and pray to God to materialize food before me, I go prepare it myself and thank God for giving me the ability to do it.
Mastermind, may God forgive your sin.

Being hyper-critical will not get anywhere.

What I am trying to penetrate into your mind is that the power to help their soul will give them a lasting-effect.

It will help them times after times because their soul is with them at all times.

But by helping them physically, you can't possibly be there everytime.

For example, a clear analogy is: A child can be exposed to danger everyday within their environment "table corners, etc.." the most responsible way is to teach the child the good and bad, so they are armed with that knowledge to save themselves.

The method you're suggesting is like physically removing all obstacles from them, but how many times can you do so? Not much. Wouldn't it be better to help them in a way that can have them understand responsibility?
A way that can help them everytime whenever they think of it?

You and I don't have much physical abilities. What Jesus Christ gives us is something beyond the physical. Life is not defined in physical ways, and the best gift is to lead people to Christ so that they can enjoy what you're enjoying.


Are you really helping the person when you end up getting hurt yourself? On the other hand you could of used that chance to make a more solid decision?

Stop trying to be heroic, we are not superman, we are limited.

Being smart is more important than acting without thinking of consequences for the victim during those critical moments. If that girl was informed, then the event would not have occurred. I don't care how you find excuses to justify killing, this is only one situation that you failed to justify, not to mention that killing has many different type of situation, and the situation you presented is only one small situation out of the mass.

You are not a real christian if you see killing as something "negotiable" and after all my effort to persuave you that killing is wrong, you still try to justify it.

Please do not try to bring negative impact to people.

We are going through a tough time in this World, you are trying to justify killing when thousands have lost their family members due to act of killing.

You can't justify it, theres not enough strength to justify killing.

Think of it in your own situation.

Please use your love and your heart to feel whether killing is right or wrong.

Everyone comes from a Mother, think of how their Mother would feel when their child is taken away from them. Regardless whether their child is right or wrong, all Mother sees their child as their beloved baby.

Think of the pain of the family when you killed a person.

I hope you will think over your own action.

It is not I who is right or wrong, it is the subject that I stand by itself that is right and just.

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#53

Post by Mastermind » Sun Jan 02, 2005 12:58 pm

I've already stated I would not kill them unless I ABSOLUTELY HAD TO. Despite what you may think, the idea of spilling blood isn't particularly appealing to me. What's so hard to understand? I'm not talking about people I've known all my life. I'm talking about a random encounter. How can I help their soul long term? What are you suggesting I should do in the encounter above? You haven't mentioned HOW to "help their soul" in a practical way. Your suggestions are illogical. How can I teach the person beforehand what is right and wrong if I've never met them untill then?

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#54

Post by SourceofLiFe » Sun Jan 02, 2005 4:02 pm

Let me make it very simple to you.

Killing is wrong, there is no way to justify it.

As much as you like to find reasons to justify this wrongfulness, there won't be any reason to support it.

Killing is wrong, doesn't matter for what reason or for what cause. We have no right to take away another human life away just as no one except God has the right to shut down your life.

Only God has that privilege to do so. We are not God, we are servant of God, therefore we should not stand on equal parallel or before God. We must stand after God. If God demand us to stand before God, technically we are still after God because we are obeying an order. God will not likely ask us to stand before God.

Taking another human life away is considered wrong by God's law. Whether you choose to abide and obey the law is completely your decision.

Do not try to twist the fact that killing is not wrong. There is no justification to it. It's that simple, those who killed may be forgiven by God, because God loves us, as we known it to be through Christ.

Being forgiven still doesn't make us not wrong.

Think over it yourself and think in general relativity, not in your own box with one situation.

I leave it to you to accept or reject.

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#55

Post by Mastermind » Sun Jan 02, 2005 4:04 pm

God's law says THOU SHALL NOT MURDER. Feel free to believe whatever you want, but don't take God's law into your own hands.

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#56

Post by SourceofLiFe » Sun Jan 02, 2005 4:14 pm

Mastermind wrote:God's law says THOU SHALL NOT MURDER. Feel free to believe whatever you want, but don't take God's law into your own hands.
Killing is murder.

Doesn't matter what intention, killing is murdering.
Stop trying to change the definition.

I think you are taking God's law into your own little world.
Go out to your church and ask the pastor if killing is right or wrong by God's law

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#57

Post by Mastermind » Sun Jan 02, 2005 4:36 pm

I will. And killing isn't murder. If it was, then God wouldn't have asked Israel to kill other people.

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#58

Post by SourceofLiFe » Sun Jan 02, 2005 4:40 pm

Mastermind wrote:I will. And killing isn't murder. If it was, then God wouldn't have asked Israel to kill other people.
I thought I clarify this already.

Perhaps you should start paying attention.

I said it clearly that human taking another human life away such as "killing" or "murdering" is wrong.

When God issue the battle, it was from words of God, therefore it is no longer on a human level. So it doesn't apply.

But most killing and murdering or whatever you like to define it as is ON HUMAN LEVEL and not issued from God's words. Therefore it is on a human level, and human taking away another human life is wrong no matter how you try to make it seem like it is right.

It is wrong, and be thankful that God will forgive human being's wrongfulness.

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#59

Post by Mastermind » Sun Jan 02, 2005 4:44 pm

This is pointless. Killing=Murder is your opinion, not God's law. There is not much else I can discuss.

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#60

Post by SourceofLiFe » Sun Jan 02, 2005 4:48 pm

Mastermind wrote:This is pointless. Killing=Murder is your opinion, not God's law. There is not much else I can discuss.
You cannot discuss because you have no clear way to justify killing.

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