Ethics on killing?

Discussion for Christian perspectives on ethical issues such as abortion, euthanasia, sexuality, and so forth.
SourceofLiFe
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#91

Post by SourceofLiFe » Sun Jan 02, 2005 6:41 pm

Let me ask you a question Mastermind.

If English your first language?

Because you could be giving the wrong meaning and not realize it and thought you had the right meaning.

If thats the case then I can accept some of your flaws.

But claiming that I am manipulating your words when you are the one who placed the meaning is outragerous.

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#92

Post by SourceofLiFe » Sun Jan 02, 2005 6:42 pm

Mastermind wrote:Back to semantics again. You know exactly what I meant. Perhaps I should use a dictionary to verify every word I write to make sure you don't degrade to using that against me in future discussions.
No I don't know what you meant...
I am not you, maybe it's you that have the problem and didn't communicate correctly.

It could be an deception Satan placed on you.

Maybe your thoughts are similar to mine, but the way you express it is completely out of order, and that itself is far from the meaning of your original intent?

Maybe thats the case.

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#93

Post by SourceofLiFe » Sun Jan 02, 2005 6:47 pm

Think about it, the way I see it right now is that you keep having trouble expressing yourself accurately and correctly. After all this discussion we had.

And thats a problem, because it means it is not close to your thoughts and intent. So the meaning of your thought drifts away and reap in confusion.

If thats the case, I suggest you make it clear to me on all your points that you tried to express and admit that you failed to express it correctly to the point that is no longer against my discussion.

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#94

Post by Mastermind » Sun Jan 02, 2005 6:54 pm

English is my second language, but I've lived in an English speaking country long enough to know it just as well as any other native. Before we go on, I will again restate my stance on the issues you mentioned. If you see a problem with it, we can take it from there. I will try to make it as clear as possible.

1. Homosexuality. Generally accepted definition: The feeling of romantic/sexual attraction towards a member of the same sex.

Not a sin as long as you don't act on it.

2. Tatoos. The laws against it are of the old covenant. I have asked you for new testament verses against them, and have yet to see them. I will assume they are OK, but I will gladly change my stance if you prove me wrong.

3. Killing. Bible says murder is wrong, not killing. The reason why I even brought this up is because the bible does not say if killing in every single situation is wrong, and the old testament seems to suggest it is not. I pray God shall guide me, and forgive me if I do wrong.

4. Swearing. We settled this already. My first post was incomplete, and I completed it later in the topic. I don't feel like writing the entire thing all over again.

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#95

Post by SourceofLiFe » Sun Jan 02, 2005 7:02 pm

The thing with you mastermind is that you don't know what you're saying...

Here's an example.

You mention that " ?[/quote]

I would do what the Lord will put in my heart at the moment. You on the other hand claim to have absolute knowledge of God, and as such are too unreliable to trust. God bless you.[/quote]

You said that you will do what the Lord put in your heart at the moment, so you know what you're doing.

Then from another post you wrote: "][quote="Mastermind"]I admit I do not know if killing in that particular situation is right or wrong, and I pray that if I am wrong, God should forgive me.

So which is it?

Since you say you have God holyspirit in you, and you seem to think that you can't be wrong when you have that spirit [notice how I didn't say holy spirit? because we don't even know if that is the spirit from God] then why are you now saying that you can be wrong and ask for forgiveness?

You are conflicting with yourself!!!

It's not me who you are "vs" against, it is yourself.

Mastermind vs Mastermind.

Thats what I mean when I said you yourself manipulate yourself.

And if you say that you should have no problem with English, then could that mean that you intentionally tried to pretend you didn't explain clearly after you no longer able to debate?

I am regarding the homosexuality post.

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#96

Post by Mastermind » Sun Jan 02, 2005 7:06 pm

I never said I can't do no wrong. I said I BELIEVE the Spirit is with me, and pray that it is true. I do not believe in 100% chances. Yes, there is a chance I am wrong. If you would quote into context, you would also realise that the things you bring up are not reason for me to question the Spirit as is at this moment, since I see you as a manipulator. Give me a reason to question, and I will. Untill then I will trust God.

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#97

Post by SourceofLiFe » Sun Jan 02, 2005 7:08 pm

Mastermind wrote:I never said I can't do no wrong. I said I BELIEVE the Spirit is with me, and pray that it is true. I do not believe in 100% chances. Yes, there is a chance I am wrong. If you would quote into context, you would also realise that the things you bring up are not reason for me to question the Spirit as is at this moment, since I see you as a manipulator. Give me a reason to question, and I will. Untill then I will trust God.
Like I said, it is not me who you are against. It is yourself.

So the manipulator you see is a direct reflection of yourself.

I won't waste any time with you, because you are clear seeing yourself through two mirror reflecting upon another.

let's just hope that "your God" is actually the real God and the same God for everyone else.

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#98

Post by Mastermind » Sun Jan 02, 2005 7:11 pm

Mmmhmmm. All I see is you desperately trying to show the two as contradictions when they are not.

"I would do what the Lord will put in my heart at the moment."

This implies I do not know, so I will trust God.

"I admit I do not know if killing in that particular situation is right or wrong, and I pray that if I am wrong, God should forgive me. "

This shows that I do not know it is right or wrong, and that if my faith should mislead me, God forgive me. What exactly is the contradiction?

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#99

Post by Anonymous » Sun Jan 02, 2005 10:52 pm

What is this? Christian against Christian, its enough that the world is against us, we don't need to fight amongst each other. We aren't here to so much argue as to discover the truth and you guys aren't helping but rather almost yelling conflicting beliefs. Semantics are what lead to some horrible religious wars and we can do without that.

As for the issue at hand, the idea here is that we must do what we can to help a fallen victim, but we must show mercy upon those who have been overcome by evil forces. As Jesus said, God gives sunlight to both the good and the evil.

Accidentally killing someone is not murder however, but rarely does a man die because of an accident.

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#100

Post by Kurieuo » Sun Jan 02, 2005 10:57 pm

Should I split this thread to start a new one "Mastermind vs. SourceofLife"? :P Then you two can keep your disagreements and shots at each other to one thread. ;)

Kurieuo.
"Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved." (Romans 10:13)

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#101

Post by Mastermind » Sun Jan 02, 2005 10:58 pm

You locked the other one, so they are in one thread now. :p

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#102

Post by Kurieuo » Sun Jan 02, 2005 11:03 pm

I just realised the posts from you two go back all the way to the beginning. Maybe I should just rename this thread to "Mastermind vs. SourceofLife"? ;) hehe...

Kurieuo.

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Keep the Faith MASTERMIND

#103

Post by Anonymous » Sun Jan 02, 2005 11:08 pm

Police daily face this situation. We pay taxes to insure they are able to due there duty. Part of that duty is to use necessary force to insure the safety of the citizens. By the account of many here I would say, no, Police do not have the ability to make the choice if they should shoot the criminal. If you truly believe that, then march on to washington and demand police not be allowed to use necessarty force, they aren't God.
MASTERMIND I must commend you on staying to the point. Legalism is just a thing that entertains our minds. For those who desire the truth they can research to see the actual meaning of the the word used, ie murder kill etc. The fact remains you trust God to direct your path. I assume from things you have said that you study His Word. I also gather you pray to understand His will. This is the best any body can do. I agree with your understanding of the Holy Spirits guidance. I want you to know, there are other God fearing bible reading praying trusting Christians like you who understand we must act in certain situations and that action may include what others would see as sin. We must measure ourselfs against only what God would have us do. And all God asks of any person is to follow Him as he understands. This following means to constantly seek God. I just wanted you to know another Christian believes you are on the right path. It seems even your salvation has bin attacked for asking counsel. Trust your salvation in Christ. Jobs friends were sure Job had done something wrong and yet he had done nothing to warrant the actions let loos on him. The doubt and desire for understanding your question brings can show you God is in work in you. You desire to know His will. I truly believe there are questions in our souls that God waits to answer until the proper time for His own divine reasons. This may be one of those questions for you. Don't hang your salvation on it our allow, not being sure of the answer, to create any doubt in Gods work with-in you and the salvation of your Lord Jesus Christ. I can not be sure of what God will have me do in the alley. I trust He will give me the strength to stop the evil act being committed
.
God, by definition must obey the very laws he gave us. This does not subject God to anything other than perfectness. God must be perfect to be God. The law is perfect. The laws of God are an example of who He is. Just as Christ is and example of who He is, or the Holy Spirit. The law is perfect and God is perfect. Did God tell man to kill man? Yes and never once did the prophets question what God expected of them when told to kill. They new the law and never brought up the question, "uh but what about the commandment, shall not kill?" I think its very simply that words were not confusing to the original speakers of the text. (Before you argue against that logic think of this, If a heavenly voice commanded you to do what you knew was a sin, would you think it was God?) Today we have created words that blur the actual meaning. Thats one bad car dude. Oh you don't like it or you do like it? God is not separate from Christ and God impowered Sampson to bring down the walls and kill all inside. It is the same as if Christ brought down the walls. Death of this body is not an evil thing of itself. It is a design of God. Buy death we are released from an imperfect body to put on the incorruptible body. I suggest walking buy a person and never insuring they are aware of the living God through Christ Jesus is more harmful to there soul than shooting the violent criminal that will, by your understanding of the situation, kill another human. I see a huge difference in the heart of a person going out to rape and kill anyone that tries to stop them, and the person on there way to a dance shooting an attacker in self defence.
Another thought on this is I cant think of one example in the Bible of God commanding man to kill man whithout having a divine plan as the reason. I can not think of one time that Christ allowed himself to be a victum, whithout having a divine plan. What God does and what we do can not be compared to euailly. God operates on full knowledge of all things. The best we can do is based on what weare aware of. We can not base our choices only on legal analysis of Gods Word because that analysis will be done by us. We can only read His Word, pray, and trust God will finish the work He has began in us. Then when that choice comes, shoot or die, God what would you have me do? I also think the scripture that we are not to be concerned when we are deliverd up to the courts what we shall say, for God will give us what to say at that time, is an example of trusting God with the uncertain events of tomarrow. Not a sparrow falls that He doesn't know about.

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Tatto

#104

Post by Anonymous » Mon Jan 03, 2005 2:03 am

Tattoo as associated with satan and his demons? Really now, in defence of many art lovers that are also Christians that is not a way to incourage one to follow Christ. I think many people confuse the use of marking the body that was practiced in biblical times. It was a type of idol worship. One took on markings to show spiritual things and worshiped. Tattoos of today could be worshiped and of coarse should not by a Christian. They can be simple art that is on the canvas of the body. Gold was used to make the idols of bahl but we understand we can still use gold, just don't worship it or the image. Careful thought of sentence structure is needed to understand what a person is trying to communicate to us. Do not mark your body as someone else dose. The as in that is important. Do not drive your car as the drunk does. The as is understood. You can drive a car just not like a drunk. You can tattoo just not AS the idol worshipers do. They can be simple art to a Christian. I was a tattoo artist and have tattoos. I do not worship them. They are simply art that is no more sinful than hanging a painting in a church. The thought that decorating the body is sin can not be carried with any conviction by anyone that picks a blue shirt over a red shirt. You decide what looks better on you. The person that decides a illustration on there body would be nice is not to be quickly thrown into a pile of people who are aligned with satan and his demons. This is were incomplete research and want of legalism can lead us. I would incourage all of us as Christians to drop prejudice at the door, as best we can.

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Satan can't approuch us?

#105

Post by Anonymous » Mon Jan 03, 2005 8:48 am

I am quoting a statement earlier in this thread,
"So once God truly took control you, it offers assurance that Satan cannot approach you."
Sorry I can't give credit to the original author. I am new to this chat board and don't know how to post direct quotes.
This can not be true if the book of Job is true or the book of Matthew, Mark, Luke, John and probably more. Job:10:6 ...a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord and Satan came with them." In Matthew Mark Luke and John Satan approached Christ and tempted Him. IE turn the stone to bread, throw yourself from the cliff the angels will catch you, bow to me and I will give you authority of all you see.If this is not temptation of the flesh of Christ Jesus than we can not say Christ suffered all things. Satan will continue to accuse us and tempt us as children of God. Our only hope is in the mediator of Christ Jesus. For if a child of God can not be approached by Satan than Christ was never approached He is the first begotten son of the living God. God Himself was approached by Satan in Job. So I think you can see once we accept Christ as Savior and believe in our hearts that God raised him from the dead and confess with our mouth He is Lord, we will be tempted and we will be approached by Satan. The apostles threw demons out of persons through the power of God is this not direct confrontation with the demon? As Christians we should be prepared to be approached by legions of Satan for nothing would give him more pleasure than to accuse Gods children.

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