UPDATE: Is Mutual Masturbation Sinful?
UPDATE: Is Mutual Masturbation Sinful?
Does MM (sometimes called a "handjob") qualify as being real sex and is it OK to do among partners, or just as a recreational activity with friends? And is it sinful?
Last edited by Ark~Magic on Thu Aug 18, 2005 8:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Prodigal Son
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...In Heaven...
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RE:
There is nothing bad about it. Me and a buddy of mine do it together as a recreational thing. It is not real sex, IMO. I think it is pure fun and isn't a problem at all.
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Kurieuo
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Ocho, if you read the question you will see the topic here is different in that isn't about mutual masterbation within marriage. I fail to see how in all fairness and honesty someone could not see a distinction between 1) my viewing oral sex as being alright within a union such as marriage, and 2) my viewing casual sexual activity outside of marriage and with many people as being wrong.
Ark~Magic, do you believe there is nothing wrong with engaging in the sexual activity you mention? If you think you believe there is nothing wrong, then what is it that caused you to post? For example, if I'm at my parents place and I'm thirsty, then I will just go to their fridge to get a drink without asking. I don't see anything wrong with getting it myself since they're my parents—to ask doesn't necessarily occur. On the other hand, if I'm at someone's place I bearly know and I'm thirsty, then I will ask for a drink rather than personally going to their fridge and grabbing one. I ask because my intuition says going to their fridge and simply grabbing a drink isn't proper or right. In the same way I believe you're asking because your own intuition is telling you such activity isn't really proper or right.
Now if you do something your conscience tells you is wrong, then such activity will impact upon your relationship with God. Scripture instructs us to live righteously for the benefit of our relationship with God. 1 Peter 4:7 says, "be clear minded and self-controlled so that you can pray." So you can pray—why wouldn't we pray even though we sin? I believe the reason is because we feel ashamed of our sin, and our minds become so clouded that we just don't feel like praying. We judge ourselves, and I know personally that when I'm feeling ashamed and guilty of something then I feel it is unfair to make requests to God even if He would answer. Another tendency we have is to try and justify what we know to be wrong to get away from our guiltiness (who afterall likes feeling guilty?). So sinful activity our conscience tells us is wrong can really ruin our coming to God. James 5:16 also says, "The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective." How great it would be to pray and see the important things we pray about taking place?
Kurieuo.
Ark~Magic, do you believe there is nothing wrong with engaging in the sexual activity you mention? If you think you believe there is nothing wrong, then what is it that caused you to post? For example, if I'm at my parents place and I'm thirsty, then I will just go to their fridge to get a drink without asking. I don't see anything wrong with getting it myself since they're my parents—to ask doesn't necessarily occur. On the other hand, if I'm at someone's place I bearly know and I'm thirsty, then I will ask for a drink rather than personally going to their fridge and grabbing one. I ask because my intuition says going to their fridge and simply grabbing a drink isn't proper or right. In the same way I believe you're asking because your own intuition is telling you such activity isn't really proper or right.
Now if you do something your conscience tells you is wrong, then such activity will impact upon your relationship with God. Scripture instructs us to live righteously for the benefit of our relationship with God. 1 Peter 4:7 says, "be clear minded and self-controlled so that you can pray." So you can pray—why wouldn't we pray even though we sin? I believe the reason is because we feel ashamed of our sin, and our minds become so clouded that we just don't feel like praying. We judge ourselves, and I know personally that when I'm feeling ashamed and guilty of something then I feel it is unfair to make requests to God even if He would answer. Another tendency we have is to try and justify what we know to be wrong to get away from our guiltiness (who afterall likes feeling guilty?). So sinful activity our conscience tells us is wrong can really ruin our coming to God. James 5:16 also says, "The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective." How great it would be to pray and see the important things we pray about taking place?
Kurieuo.
"Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved." (Romans 10:13)
Actually, Mastermind asked if oral sex was acceptable in general. It seems like this thread is asking if mutual masturbation is acceptable, since it isn't a form of sex as oral sex is.Kurieuo wrote:Ocho, if you read the question you will see the topic here is different in that isn't about mutual masterbation within marriage. .
I never disagreed with your stance against fornication. Fornication has already led to social desensitization, surge in STDs, and alarming rates of teen pregnancy.Kurieuo wrote: Perhaps you read my opinions wrong?
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I hope you also favor abstinence programs to educate children to wait until marriage. Ark and InHeaven may have a point in that if single people feel that they absolutely require some form of intimacy before marriage, they should be encouraged to engage in kissing, "dry humping," or mutual masturbation rather than any form of sex.
Re: RE:
Obviously, premarital abstinence is a more respectable choice, but if you can't wait till then, mutual masturbation and those other two stated forms of foreplay are much safer than oral, vaginal, or anal sex. Some people don't realize it, but oral sex isn't completely safe. The Bible warns against anal sex, and this was written millenniums before medical science discovered the full dangers of anal intercourse. No self-respecting Christian would engage in it!Ark~Magic wrote:I think Ochotseat is actually saying something I can agree with. I think it's fun and safe, and also more like child's play than actual sex.
Last edited by ochotseat on Thu Aug 18, 2005 5:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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LittleShepherd
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There's no way to justify mutual masturbation, or masturbation in general. Just because it doesn't have the same risk as other misuses of the sex drive doesn't make it any less of a misuse. That someone would even look for a loophole(of which there is none - Jesus made sure of that in His sermon on the mount) is an indicator of a deeper underlying problem.
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LittleShepherd
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Masturbation isn't specifically mentioned in the Bible, yet we have verses on lust and self-control. There are only two types of sexual arousal experienced by people. There is the natural arousal that's a healthy part of a marriage relationship, and then there's lust, which falls under both covetousness and adultery.
And there is no question that it is lust. You're either lusting after the person you're playing with, or you're lusting after someone else in your head. I'm not sitting here preaching from some high pedestal or anything -- I masturbate myself sometimes. It's not something I'm proud of, and I sure as heck ain't gonna try to justify it, but I sometimes do it nonetheless.
Then there's the self-control aspect. As Christians, we don't have to give up everything fun, but there are some things that we must control or our testimony will go down the toilet. Honestly, do you think for even a second that you could discuss serious spiritual matters with the guy you gave a handjob to? Awkward much!
As for exactly *how* sinful something is, there's two ways of looking at it. From the purely physical standpoint, some sins are worse than others. Murder, for example, has more immediate and severe consequences than, say, lying or coveting. On the spiritual side, though, the consequences are the same! As the Bible even states, if you have broken any commandment, you've broken them all. And as the Bible also says, the wages of sin is death. It doesn't specify a particular sin -- it's understood to be comprehensive.
And there is no question that it is lust. You're either lusting after the person you're playing with, or you're lusting after someone else in your head. I'm not sitting here preaching from some high pedestal or anything -- I masturbate myself sometimes. It's not something I'm proud of, and I sure as heck ain't gonna try to justify it, but I sometimes do it nonetheless.
Then there's the self-control aspect. As Christians, we don't have to give up everything fun, but there are some things that we must control or our testimony will go down the toilet. Honestly, do you think for even a second that you could discuss serious spiritual matters with the guy you gave a handjob to? Awkward much!
As for exactly *how* sinful something is, there's two ways of looking at it. From the purely physical standpoint, some sins are worse than others. Murder, for example, has more immediate and severe consequences than, say, lying or coveting. On the spiritual side, though, the consequences are the same! As the Bible even states, if you have broken any commandment, you've broken them all. And as the Bible also says, the wages of sin is death. It doesn't specify a particular sin -- it's understood to be comprehensive.