Evidence for God from Science

Where I think you are blatantly wrong is your refusal to acknowledge multiple evidences that the cloth in the radiocarbon sample area is different from the cloth in the rest of the Shroud (flax vs cotton, Medieval vs 1st century date, inconsistency in date across the sample, pigment vs no pigment, ...

The current fantasy is that individual 25 micron diameter threads were unravelled, spliced together with similar threads, and then rewoven to match the original weave. I claim that this is impossible. I claim that it has never been done, and cannot be done. I claim that to say that it might be is a...

I agree with much of that, but go back to a slightly wider point, which is why should I have to be the one who actually investigates the possible truth of a claim, rather than the people who make it. As I said,the patch hypothesis has evolved slightly, and interweaving (as demonstrated by Withoutatr...

HOW does it work? Gene shuffling, mistakes in copying DNA and alterations to DNA caused by radiation alter the behaviour of individuals with respect to their peers. A greater variety of possible behaviours is available to a group of organisms than there was before. This is the base from which 'selec...

Thanks, Kurieou, for broadening the discussion again. Many, if not all, of the points you raise have been discussed before, of course, not least by me, and not least, in this very thread, but it is always worth pulling back from the minutiae from time to time for a bit of an overview. You will be aw...

I think I understand, but we are not quite as hopelessly ignorant of ideas as some seem to think. Can I try to work my way through this (below)? "Something happens..." - Yes. Genetic change via incorrect reproduction or radiation. "and, somehow, the animal realizes..." Surely a m...

Environmental conditions may increase mutations, but I don't think it is the pressure on the reproductive success of the species that increases them (environmental pressure), merely the conditions. Some environmental conditions may decrease mutation rates but increase environmental pressure. Whether...

Just wondering... do you equally deprecate the following bombastic assertion? There is no such thing as truly invisible mending. The Shroud was not invisibly mended. Try looking up 'bombastic'. I appreciate that what I said is contentious, but it is not "high-sounding but with little meaning&q...

Actually, they wouldn't say snow led to the white fur as there is nothing in the snow that can produce a mutation. A mutation happened which led to white fur and bears that were close to the polar regions found an advantage in the snow. The rest I agree with. Dead right. In fact bears with white fu...

Fair enough. If the Shroud was manufactured in the 14th century, it should indeed be possible to demonstrate how, and I agree that this has not been satisfactorily achieved. But that is quite a far cry from proof that it cannot be, and must say I deprecate the triumphalism of those who claim that be...

"any forgery we have CAN and HAVE been replicated exactly, hence they are acknowledged as forgeries." Really? Can you name any acknowledged forgery at all which has been replicated exactly? I think there is too much enthusiasm among authenticist circles for the rather pejorative word "...

Why can't we seem to speed up the process through intentional, calculated breeding and bringing together diverse forms of a species - forms that wouldn't even come into to contact in nature? They can. A flying dog or a submarine cat which were both reproductively isolated from all the other dogs an...

Until someone replicates the shroud with all the characteristics VIA methods available during the time it has been dated to, then it being a "forgery" is just as big a stretch as it being of supernatural origins, by which I mean: WE DO NOT KNOW HOW IT WAS MADE. Not really. If "we do ...

It cannot be replicated today. I think it can. Hurdle after hurdle of the various "it can't be done" specifications have been demonstrated false (impossible to make a negative, impossible to make a 3D, paint always goes through the cloth, all painting have brushmarks, degraded cellulose a...

I, on the other hand, think the burden of proof is on those who assert that the image on the Shroud was naturally created using post-mortem physiological processes. Every effort to date has been a failure. And I don't think there is more physical evidence to support the reweaving theory than there i...