I would agree that certain things that God leaves up to us. Establishing our own free will. But we all have a purpose set aside to worship and praise God. What makes Micheal Jordan better than me besides basketball? But can Jordan sing better than Whitney Houston? What about your talents? God has designed each individual seperatly with his very own signiture. Not one person has the exact same DNA or fingerprints. Moses studdered and needed Aaron to help him speak. Moses, like many others was just another person like you and I. Yet Moses was chosen to bring Israel out of bondage and he answered the call. The bible says that every righteuos mans steps are ordered by God. If that's not destiny, I don't know what is. Yes, we will have trials and stumbling blocks but that's just to stregnthen your faith.
The road that you take has already been mapped out. All we have to do is answer the call.
As far as marriage is concerned; (my own theory) I believe God chose people to join together. The problem why marriages seem to fail is because the couple invited everyone else to the wedding but God.
The Lords supper
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Poetic_Soul
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Dan
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The way I see it so :Kurieuo wrote:Although there are certainly some Godly people within Scripture that God set aside for a particular purpose, I disagree that there is "one" particular destiny that God has for us which we have to discover. I believe God leaves a lot of responsibility up to us. As long as we are within His moral will with our decisions, then I believe we are within bounds to receive any blessings, or trials, God places before us. Decisions such as who to marry, where to move to, where to be educated, and so forth... all these decisions God leaves up to us to use our own wisdom He's given us, although we remain within His moral will.Poetic_Soul wrote:God called everyone to a certain greatness, talent or destiny. They may not become rich and receive the praises of the world. But they will receive blessings abundantly. The problem that we as human beings is concerned is the fact we don't trust God to the fullest. Our disobedience prevents God from working in our lives. We become out of bounds when it comes to establishing what God has for us. You can't score a touch down and hear the cheers of the fans if your not in the game. So whether you're the best floor sweeper on the planet or the best engineer in the universe, you'll get the praises from whatever talent God has given you. But you have to be in bounds to receive the blessings from God.
Kurieuo.
PS. Have you read Decision Making and the Will of God before? If not, I would recommend it, even if you disagree with it, to be aware to a alternative view to that of us having to discover God's individual will for our lives.
It is our choice to accept God, and when we accept Him, we become Christians and we are filled with the Holy Ghost. At this moment I believe God has given us purpose and a job to do. This could be preaching, converting the unbelievers, strengthening the faith of your fellow Christians, or making the world better, or ANYTHING God needs you to do. When we become Christians I think we are taking up a task that the Holy Ghost has given us in the name of God. I don't know what my purpose is, but I know the Holy Spirit will show me the way to my destiny as an adopted son of God.
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Veronica
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Just Curious about the protestant response to quotes from the early church fathers???
such as:
Ignatius of Antioch
"I have no taste for corruptible food nor for the pleasures of this life. I desire the bread of God, which is the flesh of Jesus Christ, who was of the seed of David; and for drink I desire his blood, which is love incorruptible" (Letter to the Romans 7:3 [A.D. 110]).
"Take note of those who hold heterodox opinions on the grace of Jesus Christ which has come to us, and see how contrary their opinions are to the mind of God. . . . They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer because they do not confess that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, flesh which suffered for our sins and which that Father, in his goodness, raised up again. They who deny the gift of God are perishing in their disputes" (Letter to the Smyrnaeans 6:2—7:1 [A.D. 110]).
Justin Martyr
"We call this food Eucharist, and no one else is permitted to partake of it, except one who believes our teaching to be true and who has been washed in the washing which is for the remission of sins and for regeneration [i.e., has received baptism] and is thereby living as Christ enjoined. For not as common bread nor common drink do we receive these; but since Jesus Christ our Savior was made incarnate by the word of God and had both flesh and blood for our salvation, so too, as we have been taught, the food which has been made into the Eucharist by the Eucharistic prayer set down by him, and by the change of which our blood and flesh is nurtured, is both the flesh and the blood of that incarnated Jesus" (First Apology 66 [A.D. 151]).
Irenaeus
"If the Lord were from other than the Father, how could he rightly take bread, which is of the same creation as our own, and confess it to be his body and affirm that the mixture in the cup is his blood?" (Against Heresies 4:33—32 [A.D. 189]).
"He has declared the cup, a part of creation, to be his own blood, from which he causes our blood to flow; and the bread, a part of creation, he has established as his own body, from which he gives increase unto our bodies. When, therefore, the mixed cup [wine and water] and the baked bread receives the Word of God and becomes the Eucharist, the body of Christ, and from these the substance of our flesh is increased and supported, how can they say that the flesh is not capable of receiving the gift of God, which is eternal life—flesh which is nourished by the body and blood of the Lord, and is in fact a member of him?" (ibid., 5:2).
Clement of Alexandria
"'Eat my flesh,' [Jesus] says, 'and drink my blood.' The Lord supplies us with these intimate nutrients, he delivers over his flesh and pours out his blood, and nothing is lacking for the growth of his children" (The Instructor of Children 1:6:43:3 [A.D. 191]).
Tertullian
"[T]here is not a soul that can at all procure salvation, except it believe whilst it is in the flesh, so true is it that the flesh is the very condition on which salvation hinges. And since the soul is, in consequence of its salvation, chosen to the service of God, it is the flesh which actually renders it capable of such service. The flesh, indeed, is washed [in baptism], in order that the soul may be cleansed . . . the flesh is shadowed with the imposition of hands [in confirmation], that the soul also may be illuminated by the Spirit; the flesh feeds [in the Eucharist] on the body and blood of Christ, that the soul likewise may be filled with God" (The Resurrection of the Dead 8 [A.D. 210]).
Hippolytus
"'And she [Wisdom] has furnished her table' [Prov. 9:2] . . . refers to his [Christ's] honored and undefiled body and blood, which day by day are administered and offered sacrificially at the spiritual divine table, as a memorial of that first and ever-memorable table of the spiritual divine supper [i.e.,
the Last Supper]" (Fragment from Commentary on Proverbs [A.D. 217]).
Origen
"Formerly there was baptism in an obscure way . . . now, however, in full view, there is regeneration in water and in the Holy Spirit. Formerly, in an obscure way, there was manna for food; now, however, in full view, there is the true food, the flesh of the Word of God, as he himself says: 'My flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink' [John 6:55]" (Homilies on Numbers 7:2 [A.D. 248]).
Cyprian of Carthage
"He [Paul] threatens, moreover, the stubborn and forward, and denounces them, saying, 'Whosoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord unworthily, is guilty of the body and blood of the Lord' [1 Cor. 11:27]. All these warnings being scorned and contemned—[lapsed Christians will often take Communion] before their sin is expiated, before confession has been made of their crime, before their conscience has been purged by sacrifice and by the hand of the priest, before the offense of an angry and threatening Lord has been appeased, [and so] violence is done to his body and blood; and they sin now against their Lord more with their hand and mouth than when they denied their Lord" (The Lapsed 15—16 [A.D. 251]).
The rest are after the year 300, which I know, is the year when many protestants beleive Christianity became corrupt.
If you wish to read them though, check out:
http://www.catholic.com/library/Real_Presence.asp
Veronica ><>
such as:
Ignatius of Antioch
"I have no taste for corruptible food nor for the pleasures of this life. I desire the bread of God, which is the flesh of Jesus Christ, who was of the seed of David; and for drink I desire his blood, which is love incorruptible" (Letter to the Romans 7:3 [A.D. 110]).
"Take note of those who hold heterodox opinions on the grace of Jesus Christ which has come to us, and see how contrary their opinions are to the mind of God. . . . They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer because they do not confess that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, flesh which suffered for our sins and which that Father, in his goodness, raised up again. They who deny the gift of God are perishing in their disputes" (Letter to the Smyrnaeans 6:2—7:1 [A.D. 110]).
Justin Martyr
"We call this food Eucharist, and no one else is permitted to partake of it, except one who believes our teaching to be true and who has been washed in the washing which is for the remission of sins and for regeneration [i.e., has received baptism] and is thereby living as Christ enjoined. For not as common bread nor common drink do we receive these; but since Jesus Christ our Savior was made incarnate by the word of God and had both flesh and blood for our salvation, so too, as we have been taught, the food which has been made into the Eucharist by the Eucharistic prayer set down by him, and by the change of which our blood and flesh is nurtured, is both the flesh and the blood of that incarnated Jesus" (First Apology 66 [A.D. 151]).
Irenaeus
"If the Lord were from other than the Father, how could he rightly take bread, which is of the same creation as our own, and confess it to be his body and affirm that the mixture in the cup is his blood?" (Against Heresies 4:33—32 [A.D. 189]).
"He has declared the cup, a part of creation, to be his own blood, from which he causes our blood to flow; and the bread, a part of creation, he has established as his own body, from which he gives increase unto our bodies. When, therefore, the mixed cup [wine and water] and the baked bread receives the Word of God and becomes the Eucharist, the body of Christ, and from these the substance of our flesh is increased and supported, how can they say that the flesh is not capable of receiving the gift of God, which is eternal life—flesh which is nourished by the body and blood of the Lord, and is in fact a member of him?" (ibid., 5:2).
Clement of Alexandria
"'Eat my flesh,' [Jesus] says, 'and drink my blood.' The Lord supplies us with these intimate nutrients, he delivers over his flesh and pours out his blood, and nothing is lacking for the growth of his children" (The Instructor of Children 1:6:43:3 [A.D. 191]).
Tertullian
"[T]here is not a soul that can at all procure salvation, except it believe whilst it is in the flesh, so true is it that the flesh is the very condition on which salvation hinges. And since the soul is, in consequence of its salvation, chosen to the service of God, it is the flesh which actually renders it capable of such service. The flesh, indeed, is washed [in baptism], in order that the soul may be cleansed . . . the flesh is shadowed with the imposition of hands [in confirmation], that the soul also may be illuminated by the Spirit; the flesh feeds [in the Eucharist] on the body and blood of Christ, that the soul likewise may be filled with God" (The Resurrection of the Dead 8 [A.D. 210]).
Hippolytus
"'And she [Wisdom] has furnished her table' [Prov. 9:2] . . . refers to his [Christ's] honored and undefiled body and blood, which day by day are administered and offered sacrificially at the spiritual divine table, as a memorial of that first and ever-memorable table of the spiritual divine supper [i.e.,
the Last Supper]" (Fragment from Commentary on Proverbs [A.D. 217]).
Origen
"Formerly there was baptism in an obscure way . . . now, however, in full view, there is regeneration in water and in the Holy Spirit. Formerly, in an obscure way, there was manna for food; now, however, in full view, there is the true food, the flesh of the Word of God, as he himself says: 'My flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink' [John 6:55]" (Homilies on Numbers 7:2 [A.D. 248]).
Cyprian of Carthage
"He [Paul] threatens, moreover, the stubborn and forward, and denounces them, saying, 'Whosoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord unworthily, is guilty of the body and blood of the Lord' [1 Cor. 11:27]. All these warnings being scorned and contemned—[lapsed Christians will often take Communion] before their sin is expiated, before confession has been made of their crime, before their conscience has been purged by sacrifice and by the hand of the priest, before the offense of an angry and threatening Lord has been appeased, [and so] violence is done to his body and blood; and they sin now against their Lord more with their hand and mouth than when they denied their Lord" (The Lapsed 15—16 [A.D. 251]).
The rest are after the year 300, which I know, is the year when many protestants beleive Christianity became corrupt.
If you wish to read them though, check out:
http://www.catholic.com/library/Real_Presence.asp
Veronica ><>
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bizzt
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First of all we know that the Bread he Gives is not of Substance!Veronica wrote:One quick question: How do you interpet John 6:47-72? In other words, what do you think Jesus is saying here?
Jhn 6:58 This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.
He is talking about a Bread that we eat that will make us Live for Ever. He is speaking Metaphorically (as he does in a lot of his Speaking). He is speaking of himself Dying on the Cross to give his BODY as a Living Sacrifice. He also gives us his Blood to wash our Sins away! I don't think the Lord is being Literal here in saying to EAT his Flesh because if he was the Jewish Law would have had him Killed a long time before they did!
The Disciples had a Hard time with this as well if you read the Scripture because THEY also thought it was Literal in Meaning!
This however must have helped them
Jhn 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, [they] are spirit, and [they] are life.
Those are my Thoughts!
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Veronica
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Thank you. I'm sorry its taken me so long to reply. I've been rather busy lately.
And they tried. But they would not succeed until the Lord gave himself over to them. Only when it was the right time would they succeed in killing Our Lord.I don't think the Lord is being Literal here in saying to EAT his Flesh because if he was the Jewish Law would have had him Killed a long time before they did!
the flesh profiteth nothing. . .Dead flesh separated from the spirit, in the gross manner they supposed they were to eat his flesh, would profit nothing. Neither doth man's flesh, that is to say, man's natural and carnal apprehension, (which refuses to be subject to the spirit, and words of Christ,) profit any thing. But it would be the height of blasphemy, to say the living flesh of Christ (which we receive in the blessed sacarament, with his spirit, that is, with his soul and divinity) profiteth nothing. For if Christ's flesh had profitedus nothing, he would never have taken flesh for us, nor died in us nothing, he would never have taken flesh for us, nor died in the flesh for us. Are spirit and life. . .By proposing to you a heavenly sacrament, in which you shall receive, in a wonderful manner, spirit, grace, and life, in its very fountain. (footnotes of the Douay Rheims bible)Jhn 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, [they] are spirit, and [they] are life.