Evidence for God from Science

Kurieuo wrote:You raise another interesting issue. Yes, it raises different questions at different levels, I think are good to consider and think through. Such makes it quite difficult to answer, more than what I first thought when posting the question.

For example, I did change my answer from "mediate" to "immediate", given the ontology I accept of our "natural" world wherein God is directly involved and sustaining and acting at every point to keep it predictable and stable for us and other created life.

Why I said what I said was bc if God makes babies with the Adamic sin nature, then when the kid sins wouldn't He be partially responsible? That's why I go with a mix of both. Btw, God does accomplish His will through our free will as well, which relates to this question.

People sometimes say God doesn't make mistakes, and therefore no one could have been born gay or psychologically the opposite gender to what their body would indicate. It's not as if no one's ever born with nothing wrong with them however. Some children are born blind, some have other problems (heck, I know I was born with more than one thing wrong with me); maybe some even have an innate tendency to aggression or another wrong behaviour. So it seems quite possible to me that a few people are born with one of those other psychological problems I mentioned first.

This, to me, all points not to God directly, intentionally creating a baby in the womb but to this being a natural process (initiated by God) which due to the imperfect world we live in sometimes (even usually) goes wrong.

Nicki wrote:People sometimes say God doesn't make mistakes, and therefore no one could have been born gay or psychologically the opposite gender to what their body would indicate. It's not as if no one's ever born with nothing wrong with them however. Some children are born blind, some have other problems (heck, I know I was born with more than one thing wrong with me); maybe some even have an innate tendency to aggression or another wrong behaviour. So it seems quite possible to me that a few people are born with one of those other psychological problems I mentioned first.

This, to me, all points not to God directly, intentionally creating a baby in the womb but to this being a natural process (initiated by God) which due to the imperfect world we live in sometimes (even usually) goes wrong.

That's a really good point Nicki.

RickD wrote:

Nicki wrote:People sometimes say God doesn't make mistakes, and therefore no one could have been born gay or psychologically the opposite gender to what their body would indicate. It's not as if no one's ever born with nothing wrong with them however. Some children are born blind, some have other problems (heck, I know I was born with more than one thing wrong with me); maybe some even have an innate tendency to aggression or another wrong behaviour. So it seems quite possible to me that a few people are born with one of those other psychological problems I mentioned first.

This, to me, all points not to God directly, intentionally creating a baby in the womb but to this being a natural process (initiated by God) which due to the imperfect world we live in sometimes (even usually) goes wrong.

That's a really good point Nicki.

Thanks - I think I tripped myself up on the grammatical negatives though - I meant it's not as if no one's ever been born with something wrong with them

I think we as humans have been given the ability of genesis (even before we were able to reproduce). I think God gives the breathe of life at the moment of conception, because that is what has been enacted on by us. And, yet, He always knew how people would be conceived before humanities existence, and chose to let it happen in unison with humanity (who is meant to become the new creation, His body and temple). We won't know what a child born of a 'clean slate' of humanity looks like until the millennium begins (like a child of Adam and Eve who are sealed by the Holy Spirit). That's a pretty general sense of how I see procreation working. So, I believe both, and we only know the mediate side of propagation in a world of sin, not ruled by Him.