Scripture!

[abelcainsbrother]

If there is significance found in disagreement, then why not significance in agreement?
People focus a lot on disagreement that they often forget much is agreed upon.
The majority of Christian denominations share in the same general message, those who don't are simply cults.

Your question I think is more one of epistomology than specifically Christianity. That is, how can truth be known? Why isn't truth clear? The only theological part really is, why didn't God make it known and clear?

To the first and second questions, theology is just as much a field of knowledge, as the physical sciences, as philosophy -- and so it suffers all the same problems of our ability to truly know. Scripture is considered a source of theology, as is nature, as is reason and tradition. How one procedes to understand the relationship of each and understand the truth of this or that matter often becomes a complicated exercise.

As to the third question, if what you want to know is why God didn't make all truth clear. Patrick is right, that there is a purpose God desires in our temporary world. Part of Christianity is the belief that God calls to us, yet depending on our hearts we either bury the truth of God or respond to it. God allows knowledge of Himself to be buried, even gives people whose hearts are set over to themselves to do as they please in this life. Nonetheless, God can be clearly seen through what has been made, right? Yet not everyone believes God even exists. The Gospel can be clearly seen in Scripture too I'd argue, yet not everyone believes in such hope.

Well, I don't want to bury the truth, but I can't accept Christ as God. So, what now? Eternal hell?
Meh...

you might see that Scripture--which is not the Word, btw--is meant to divide joints from marrow; hence the physical divisions into sects, which reveal Apostasy. When Scripture clearly delineates "faith" from "beliefs" in other areas; satan believes, too, and trembles. Christ came to be an example, that even the Sunni's Book proclaims one "must follow, or be doomed." (the Heifer, i think? several other places, also)

So imo, you are right to believe in One God--as did not even Christ state "Why do you call Me good?"--and reject any doctrine of Apostate "Trinity" that cannot be Witnessed by a holistic view of Scripture in your opinion, only ("Seek your own salvation"), led by the Spirit, as Scripture suggests. Sorry, commands.

Divisions really don't matter like some people think,divisions does nothing to change the truth of God's word. A person will either choose to do things God's way or not. It is everybody's responsibility to make sure they are following the truth. Denominations do not change the truth of God's word,it is just people choosing to focus more on certain parts of God's word for the most part,but at the end of it only those who have been saved by Jesus will be justified. It is very hard today to not be able to discover truth in God's word. We have bibles,concordances,bible study guides,etc translated into most languages of the world and yet people think they are somehow excused from discovering the truth. It is a weak excuse that will hold no water at all when they are standing before God on judgment day. The truth and how a person followed it will matter and if your name is in the Lamb's book of life.

nice. but we are all conflicted, and it might be beneficial to see that people do not intentionally deceive; the most Literal-reading Fundie here is telling the truth, as they see it; and we might all be compared with little children, discussing where babies come from. There was a time when i was convinced it came from mommy eating a brownie, and growing a baby in her tummy, and all of the talk of storks in the world, no matter how many other little children told me that, would sway my opinion on the matter.

There is no condemnation in those who are in Christ, iow.

All false religions teach works for salvation because they have no Savior,but we do and his name is Jesus Christ.

well, to that i would say that we need a common lexicon at "religion," as i am sure we currently differ on the definition there. You must have works, of course, it is your works that will be judged, and demonstrate your faith--which is not your "beliefs"--and so my best reply to you for now might be that my definition of "religion" = "the flip side of the coin of politics," "man's attempts to reach God, man's way," and i am pressed for time now, but i can provide the Witnesses this aft if you like.

No it is not by works that we are saved and if it was Jesus would not have been sent to save us. If we could be saved by religious works/deeds we would not need Jesus,but we do. Whenever you think that there are certain works you must do to be saved? You turn Christianity into a religion just like all other religions,like Islam,Hinduism,etc these are all false religions.All other religions teach works for salvation and this makes them false religions. Christianity does not teach this.Nobody would want to go to their idea of heaven,etc because there god is not concerned with sin like our God is so that their heaven,etc would be no different than this world we now live in with sin,no sin will be in heaven and only those washed in the blood of Jesus are clean from sin and can enter in.

[bbyrd009]

Yes,

I just noticed you said you are a oneness Pentecostal.

FYI, You are not going to last long here, being a member of that cult, preaching a false gospel.

We don't put up with people trying to make this forum a pulpit for their false gospel.

ah, well sorry if i was unclear; i was OP, i'm not OP anymore, RickD

[bbyrd009]

The majority of Christian denominations share in the same general message...

yes, and this is termed Apostasy, wadr.

I didn't mean those that share in similar heresies, like Oneness, JWs and like.

well then, my apologies. And i guess i don't have enough hours in my day to go back and find your post on that; sorry, i am just too used to track-backs, i guess, quotes with links. So i'll just ask you what did you mean there? What same general message? ty

[bbyrd009]

@bbyrd, here is a thread for you: Understanding the Trinity

ok, ty, and here is a flag for you:



do you know what this flag represents? Are you a Patriot? Washington DC is one of those stars, did you know that? do you know what the other two are?

so wadr, you can have your concept of "Trinity," right in the face of Why do you call Me good?
keep it as long as it serves you, ok. but don't be surprised when the trinity that you are not even aware of--i bet--gets conflated with the trinity you have as a belief; or iow when your leaders start laying "hands of protection" on Carnival Barkers running for Potus, who were openly bought and paid for--it was on tv, even, back in the 80's, i remember--for "protection against concentrated satanic attack," i believe is the (searchable) phrase. yup.

[bbyrd009]

No it is not by works that we are saved and if it was Jesus would not have been sent to save us. If we could be saved by religious works/deeds we would not need Jesus,but we do. Whenever you think that there are certain works you must do to be saved? You turn Christianity into a religion just like all other religions,like Islam,Hinduism,etc these are all false religions.All other religions teach works for salvation and this makes them false religions. Christianity does not teach this.Nobody would want to go to their idea of heaven,etc because there god is not concerned with sin like our God is so that their heaven,etc would be no different than this world we now live in with sin,no sin will be in heaven and only those washed in the blood of Jesus are clean from sin and can enter in.

well, ty for your opinion, and you are welcome to it, as long as it serves you. i did not mean to imply that works save you. i only meant to say that you will be judged by your works, and you must have works, or else all you got is noworks. you are a Priest, and you are building a Temple, and you have a foundation, and then you build on the foundation, which God requires that you follow after your Abel, the Shepherd, and not your Cain, the plower of his own soil, i totally agree. But let's not pretend that Shepherding--in the manner of a kid shepherding their younger sibling, of course, not the messed-up way we define Shepherding as Adults--is not work. Shepherding is hard, takes patience, humility, etc.

what must i do to be "saved," abelcainsbrother?

[RickD]

@bbyrd, here is a thread for you: Understanding the Trinity

ok, ty, and here is a flag for you:



do you know what this flag represents? Are you a Patriot? Washington DC is one of those stars, did you know that? do you know what the other two are?

so wadr, you can have your concept of "Trinity," right in the face of Why do you call Me good?
keep it as long as it serves you, ok. but don't be surprised when the trinity that you are not even aware of--i bet--gets conflated with the trinity you have as a belief; or iow when your leaders start laying "hands of protection" on Carnival Barkers running for Potus, who were openly bought and paid for--it was on tv, even, back in the 80's, i remember--for "protection against concentrated satanic attack," i believe is the (searchable) phrase. yup.

You really should lay off the sauce this early in the morning.

[abelcainsbrother]

No it is not by works that we are saved and if it was Jesus would not have been sent to save us. If we could be saved by religious works/deeds we would not need Jesus,but we do. Whenever you think that there are certain works you must do to be saved? You turn Christianity into a religion just like all other religions,like Islam,Hinduism,etc these are all false religions.All other religions teach works for salvation and this makes them false religions. Christianity does not teach this.Nobody would want to go to their idea of heaven,etc because there god is not concerned with sin like our God is so that their heaven,etc would be no different than this world we now live in with sin,no sin will be in heaven and only those washed in the blood of Jesus are clean from sin and can enter in.

well, ty for your opinion, and you are welcome to it, as long as it serves you. i did not mean to imply that works save you. i only meant to say that you will be judged by your works, and you must have works, or else all you got is noworks. you are a Priest, and you are building a Temple, and you have a foundation, and then you build on the foundation, which God requires that you follow after your Abel, the Shepherd, and not your Cain, the plower of his own soil, i totally agree. But let's not pretend that Shepherding--in the manner of a kid shepherding their younger sibling, of course, not the messed-up way we define Shepherding as Adults--is not work. Shepherding is hard, takes patience, humility, etc.

what must i do to be "saved," abelcainsbrother?

God is a blood covenant God and always has been which is why I went back to Cain and Abel. God accepted Abel's sacrifice because it was a blood sacrifice,which Cain did not understand being a tiller of the ground. Cain could have sold his vegetables,etc and bought a lamb for blood sacrifice but he didn't. Salvation through Jesus is a blood covenant also and you will never find anywhere in the bible where God breaks a blood covenant even with sin,rebellion,killing all of the prophets,etc God still never has broke a blood covenant which is why 144,000 Jews from the twelve tribes of Israel will come out of the tribulation believing in Jesus Christ. And yet when it comes to salvation which is a blood covenant you somehow think God will finally break a blood covenant that somebody entered into the moment they accepted Jesus Christ into their hearts and were saved. And as RickD already told you works only has to do with crowns and rewards a person will have in heaven,but it does not effect the blood covenant and will not be broken. Works = crowns/rewards in heaven,NOT salvation.

I Want That Crown
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T93OF7QGu48

[RickD]

Yes,

I just noticed you said you are a oneness Pentecostal.

FYI, You are not going to last long here, being a member of that cult, preaching a false gospel.

We don't put up with people trying to make this forum a pulpit for their false gospel.

ah, well sorry if i was unclear; i was OP, i'm not OP anymore, RickD

You're not? You wrote:

no, i am a Western Christian, been Oneness Pentecostal for the last 20 years or so.

You've been Oneness Pentecostal for the last 20 years, all while "not" being a oneness pentecostal?

And you wonder why people have accused you of being drunk?

[bbyrd009]

God is a blood covenant God and always has been which is why I went back to Cain and Abel. God accepted Abel's sacrifice because it was a blood sacrifice,which Cain did not understand being a tiller of the ground. Cain could have sold his vegetables,etc and bought a lamb for blood sacrifice but he didn't. Salvation through Jesus is a blood covenant also and you will never find anywhere in the bible where God breaks a blood covenant even with sin,rebellion,killing all of the prophets,etc God still never has broke a blood covenant which is why 144,000 Jews from the twelve tribes of Israel will come out of the tribulation believing in Jesus Christ. And yet when it comes to salvation which is a blood covenant you somehow think God will finally break a blood covenant that somebody entered into the moment they accepted Jesus Christ into their hearts and were saved. And as RickD already told you works only has to do with crowns and rewards a person will have in heaven,but it does not effect the blood covenant and will not be broken. Works = crowns/rewards in heaven,NOT salvation.

lots of people tell me lots of things, wadr. But not too many ever bring Witnesses, that may be Cross-examined, i notice.
sure, one might be saved as by fire.

Imagining that Cain could have bought a Lamb is missing the point of the parable, imo.
i mean, after all, how many people have pondered the exact same thing? i have, myself
https://www.google.com/#q=why+didn%27t+ ... bel&nfpr=1

yes, and the two of us are hardly the first. gee, you'd think God woulda maybe though of that?

[bbyrd009]

Yes,

I just noticed you said you are a oneness Pentecostal.

FYI, You are not going to last long here, being a member of that cult, preaching a false gospel.

We don't put up with people trying to make this forum a pulpit for their false gospel.

ah, well sorry if i was unclear; i was OP, i'm not OP anymore, RickD

You're not? You wrote:

no, i am a Western Christian, been Oneness Pentecostal for the last 20 years or so.

You've been Oneness Pentecostal for the last 20 years, all while "not" being a oneness pentecostal?

And you wonder why people have accused you of being drunk?

>

Hi, i'm seeking after Christ, Mark Whittington, age 55, Heretic, single, creation~centered, not sure what "creation position" is asking, i doubt "fetal" is the correct response, so i'll just say that i suspect Adam and Eve had navels, for now, and i'll fill in the bio stuff today. Started Southern Baptist, through Charismatic, Free-will, Messianic, Prosperity, OP, now considered a Heretic by pretty much all of those guys. i hope. Ntmy all

[RickD]

Yes,

I just noticed you said you are a oneness Pentecostal.

FYI, You are not going to last long here, being a member of that cult, preaching a false gospel.

We don't put up with people trying to make this forum a pulpit for their false gospel.

ah, well sorry if i was unclear; i was OP, i'm not OP anymore, RickD

You're not? You wrote:

no, i am a Western Christian, been Oneness Pentecostal for the last 20 years or so.

You've been Oneness Pentecostal for the last 20 years, all while "not" being a oneness pentecostal?

And you wonder why people have accused you of being drunk?

>

Hi, i'm seeking after Christ, Mark Whittington, age 55, Heretic, single, creation~centered, not sure what "creation position" is asking, i doubt "fetal" is the correct response, so i'll just say that i suspect Adam and Eve had navels, for now, and i'll fill in the bio stuff today. Started Southern Baptist, through Charismatic, Free-will, Messianic, Prosperity, OP, now considered a Heretic by pretty much all of those guys. i hope. Ntmy all

You were such a heretic, that even the Oneness Pentecostals kicked you out?

[abelcainsbrother]

God is a blood covenant God and always has been which is why I went back to Cain and Abel. God accepted Abel's sacrifice because it was a blood sacrifice,which Cain did not understand being a tiller of the ground. Cain could have sold his vegetables,etc and bought a lamb for blood sacrifice but he didn't. Salvation through Jesus is a blood covenant also and you will never find anywhere in the bible where God breaks a blood covenant even with sin,rebellion,killing all of the prophets,etc God still never has broke a blood covenant which is why 144,000 Jews from the twelve tribes of Israel will come out of the tribulation believing in Jesus Christ. And yet when it comes to salvation which is a blood covenant you somehow think God will finally break a blood covenant that somebody entered into the moment they accepted Jesus Christ into their hearts and were saved. And as RickD already told you works only has to do with crowns and rewards a person will have in heaven,but it does not effect the blood covenant and will not be broken. Works = crowns/rewards in heaven,NOT salvation.

lots of people tell me lots of things, wadr. But not too many ever bring Witnesses, that may be Cross-examined, i notice.
sure, one might be saved as by fire.

Imagining that Cain could have bought a Lamb is missing the point of the parable, imo.
i mean, after all, how many people have pondered the exact same thing? i have, myself
https://www.google.com/#q=why+didn%27t+ ... bel&nfpr=1

yes, and the two of us are hardly the first. gee, you'd think God woulda maybe though of that?

Seek and ye shall find.It requires seeking to find out.

[bbyrd009]

lots of people tell me lots of things, wadr. But not too many ever bring Witnesses, that may be Cross-examined, i notice.
sure, one might be saved as by fire.

Imagining that Cain could have bought a Lamb is missing the point of the parable, imo.
i mean, after all, how many people have pondered the exact same thing? i have, myself
https://www.google.com/#q=why+didn%27t+ ... bel&nfpr=1

yes, and the two of us are hardly the first. gee, you'd think God woulda maybe though of that?

Seek and ye shall find.It requires seeking to find out.

ok then, so why do you think Cain did not buy a lamb from Abel? ty

[abelcainsbrother]

lots of people tell me lots of things, wadr. But not too many ever bring Witnesses, that may be Cross-examined, i notice.
sure, one might be saved as by fire.

Imagining that Cain could have bought a Lamb is missing the point of the parable, imo.
i mean, after all, how many people have pondered the exact same thing? i have, myself
https://www.google.com/#q=why+didn%27t+ ... bel&nfpr=1

yes, and the two of us are hardly the first. gee, you'd think God woulda maybe though of that?

Seek and ye shall find.It requires seeking to find out.

ok then, so why do you think Cain did not buy a lamb from Abel? ty

How about pride and wanting to do things his way,obviously Abel had been taught and so no reason to think Cain wasn't taught also.

[Kurieuo]

so wadr, you can have your concept of "Trinity," right in the face of Why do you call Me good?

Jesus identifies Himself as good.

John 10:14-15 -

• 14 I am the good shepherd, and I know My own and My own know Me, 15 even as the Father knows Me and I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep.

Jesus also isn't saying that He is 'a' good shepherd, but 'the' good Shepherd.

Reflecting back to Mark 10:17-18:

• 17As He was setting out on a journey, a man ran up to Him and knelt before Him, and asked Him, “Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?” 18And Jesus said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good except God alone.

Jesus nowhere denies that He is indeed "good". In fact, He goes onto talk of the rich man following Him, there is talk of Peter and many others following Him (Mark 10:28-29). The Good Shepherd leads us to green pastures, and ultimately to God's house.

When Jesus is asked, "Who can be saved?" (Mark 10:30), Jesus responds: "With people it is impossible, but not with God; for all things are possible with God." Now if it is with Jesus that we are saved, and Jesus promotes this, then far from denying His divinity, Jesus is in fact using His question back to the rich man to get him truly thinking about who He, Jesus, really is.

I would also inquire of you, where else in the OT we see mention of shepherd. Well, of course Psalm 23:

• 1 The Lord is my shepherd,
  I shall not want.
  2 He makes me lie down in green pastures;
  He leads me beside quiet waters.
  3 He restores my soul;
  He guides me in the paths of righteousness
  For His name’s sake.
  4 Even though I walk through the [d]valley of the shadow of death,
  I fear no evil, for You are with me;
  Your rod and Your staff, they comfort me.
  5 You prepare a table before me in the presence of my enemies;
  You have anointed my head with oil;
  My cup overflows.
  6 Surely goodness and lovingkindness will follow me all the days of my life,
  And I will dwell in the house of the Lord forever.

Jesus is David's Lord.

Now let's look at Ezekiel 34:

• 11 For thus says the Lord God, “Behold, I Myself will search for My sheep and seek them out. 12 As a shepherd [k]cares for his herd in the day when he is among his scattered sheep, so I will care for My [n]sheep and will deliver them from all the places to which they were scattered on a cloudy and gloomy day. 13 I will bring them out from the peoples and gather them from the countries and bring them to their own land; and I will feed them on the mountains of Israel, by the streams, and in all the inhabited places of the land. 14 I will feed them in a good pasture, and their grazing ground will be on the mountain heights of Israel. There they will lie down on good grazing ground and feed in [o]rich pasture on the mountains of Israel. 15 I will feed My flock and I will lead them to rest,” declares the Lord God. 16 “I will seek the lost, bring back the scattered, bind up the broken and strengthen the sick; but the fat and the strong I will destroy. I will feed them with judgment.
  
  17 “As for you, My flock, thus says the Lord God, ‘Behold, I will judge between one sheep and another, between the rams and the male goats. 18 Is it too slight a thing for you that you should feed in the good pasture, that you must tread down with your feet the rest of your pastures? Or that you should drink of the clear waters, that you must foul the rest with your feet? 19 As for My flock, they must eat what you tread down with your feet and drink what you foul with your feet!’”
  
  20 Therefore, thus says the Lord God to them, “Behold, I, even I, will judge between the fat sheep and the lean sheep. 21 Because you push with side and with shoulder, and thrust at all the weak with your horns until you have scattered them abroad, 22 therefore, I will deliver My flock, and they will no longer be a prey; and I will judge between one sheep and another.

There are many parallels to be drawn from all this:

• The Lord God (Jehovah / YHWH) is the Shepherd.
• The Lord God judges.
• Jesus is the Shepherd, indeed the "good" Shepherd.
• Throwing back to your John 5:22 passage elsewhere, Jesus is judge.

The Lord God and Jesus appear to be one. Now I urge you to go back to my Trinity thread, ignore all the writing if you like, and simply watch the videos one after each other that are found within. Don't stop after the first or second, but watch them all, even if you disagree. You'll have your explanation of how it can be so that the Lord God and Jesus are the One.

Good day sir.