Seventh Day Adventists in the Bible

[PaulSacramento]

Wow, I just...talk about reading into scripture what you want...
First off, it is clear that Jesus and His apostles DID drink wine ( the type is irrelevant).
Rules and prohibitions to getting DRUNK do NOT equal prohibitions to actual drinking, if that was the case then celibacy would be biblical because there are rules about fornication, know what I mean?
That John the baptist didn't drink means that he didn't drink and that is all it means.
Daniel did not drink because the wine was an offering to a pagan God.
Only the nazarites were commanded not to drink.

By the very same logic of thinking then any passage that advice's against eating too much or gluttony means that people should not eat.

Luke says it clearly:
Luke 7:33-35

33 For John the Baptist has come eating no bread and drinking no wine, and you say, ‘He has a demon!’ 34 The Son of Man has come eating and drinking, and you say, ‘Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!’ 35 Yet wisdom is vindicated by all her children.”

Honestly, I can see what you are trying to do but this is a case of you reading what you WANT into what is clearly not there.

There is no prohibition in the OT or NT against the drinking of wine UNLESS you are part of a specific group ordained by God not to drink OR if, for some reason, God has told you for it to be so.
IN short, it is between the individual and God.

Drunken, however,is prohibited.

If alcohol acts like a poison on your body and brain, then it is off limits as far as God is concerned, especially if it interferes with spiritual discernment. But you are welcome to think otherwise, I am not making a judgement, just stating the tenor of the scriptures in regards to health.

The fact is that the SDA's are today the longest living society on earth, compared to other denominations they live an average of 25 to 40 years longer, so I would not be too hasty to dismiss what they propose about the principles of health.
And it is interesting that most SDA's do not follow to the letter what is recommended, which if they did, their life expectancy would be double the average age 100 - 120 years old.

Currently most SDA's don't smoke, drink alcohol, and eat mostly fruit, vegetables, nuts and grains.
They eat regular meals and say grace before eating. Etc

So do Muslims.

Okinawans live the longest so...I guess Shinto is the way to go?
http://www.aplaceformom.com/blog/2013-0 ... e-longest/

As for alcohol being poison:
There is NO Passage in the bible that states that or prohibits alcohol, only drunkenness.
So biblically, you do not have any grounds to say that.

Science:
http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-cond ... 48281?pg=2

Various studies have shown that moderate amounts of all types of alcohol benefit your heart, not just alcohol found in red wine. It's thought that alcohol:

Raises high-density lipoprotein (HDL) cholesterol, the "good" cholesterol
Reduces the formation of blood clots
Helps prevent artery damage caused by high levels of low-density lipoprotein (LDL) cholesterol, the "bad" cholesterol
Produces changes in blood pressure


Note that it must be in moderation of course.

In short, you are trying to pass off your views as biblical and that is incorrect.
Please stop.

[PaulSacramento]

Jesus Christ fulfilled the OT law.

By keeping it and not abolishing it. Matthew 5.

"Here are they which KEEP the commandments of God..." Revelation 12.

There is no proof in scripture that the law of God is abolished or made redundant.

Please who me the OT laws that states:
Gentiles to keep the Sabbath.
Drinking of alcohol is prohibited.

There are 612 laws, show me where those two are.

[Starhunter]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1470496/

There you go...

Once doctors and scientists gave evidence that smoking is actually good for you in moderation.

Does that sound familiar?

No one is here to take your bottle away from you.

Only remember that intemperance is intemperance. And we all know what God will do to those who defile their body temple. We read it before - "...him shall God" ...what..."destroy."

So if science proves that any amount of alcohol is detrimental, what will you say? Are you still going to believe that Jesus shared the bottle with His disciples?

Check this out - 300 facts about alcohol consumption. http://www.utexas.edu/research/asrec/alcoholfacts.html

[Starhunter]

Jesus Christ fulfilled the OT law.

By keeping it and not abolishing it. Matthew 5.

"Here are they which KEEP the commandments of God..." Revelation 12.

There is no proof in scripture that the law of God is abolished or made redundant.

Please who me the OT laws that states:
Gentiles to keep the Sabbath.
Drinking of alcohol is prohibited.

There are 612 laws, show me where those two are.

The 612 laws belonged to the civil laws of Israel as a theocracy. These laws are typically thrown in the face of anyone who mentions the ten laws of God which God wrote - not Moses. It's called being opportunistic and willingly ignorant.
When we are talking about God's commandments, it is the ten laws that He wrote with His own finger.
Even the laws of the Sanctuary regarding the ceremonial rites and ordinances were written by Moses under instruction.

These laws would be temporal with the sanctuary service until it ended, and the civil laws would only stand until Israel had forfeited its own connection to God as King and leader of their nation.

The laws of God will stand forever, and they apply to the human race globally in all times. The wicked will be judged by that law. That is taught right throughout the Bible.

[neo-x]

If only Gman was around.

[RickD]

If only Gman was around.

He is. He is reincarnated as Starhunter.

This is déjà vu all over again!

[PaulSacramento]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1470496/

There you go...

Once doctors and scientists gave evidence that smoking is actually good for you in moderation.

Does that sound familiar?

No one is here to take your bottle away from you.

Only remember that intemperance is intemperance. And we all know what God will do to those who defile their body temple. We read it before - "...him shall God" ...what..."destroy."

So if science proves that any amount of alcohol is detrimental, what will you say? Are you still going to believe that Jesus shared the bottle with His disciples?

Check this out - 300 facts about alcohol consumption. http://www.utexas.edu/research/asrec/alcoholfacts.html

"Take my bottle away" eh?
Nice.

I suggest you start reading the bible with OPEN eyes as opposed to what you are doing now and STOP saying that the bible says things it actually doesn't say.

[PaulSacramento]

Jesus Christ fulfilled the OT law.

By keeping it and not abolishing it. Matthew 5.

"Here are they which KEEP the commandments of God..." Revelation 12.

There is no proof in scripture that the law of God is abolished or made redundant.

Please who me the OT laws that states:
Gentiles to keep the Sabbath.
Drinking of alcohol is prohibited.

There are 612 laws, show me where those two are.

The 612 laws belonged to the civil laws of Israel as a theocracy. These laws are typically thrown in the face of anyone who mentions the ten laws of God which God wrote - not Moses. It's called being opportunistic and willingly ignorant.
When we are talking about God's commandments, it is the ten laws that He wrote with His own finger.
Even the laws of the Sanctuary regarding the ceremonial rites and ordinances were written by Moses under instruction.

These laws would be temporal with the sanctuary service until it ended, and the civil laws would only stand until Israel had forfeited its own connection to God as King and leader of their nation.

The laws of God will stand forever, and they apply to the human race globally in all times. The wicked will be judged by that law. That is taught right throughout the Bible.

No, the 612 Laws were Laws that covers ALL aspects of life i n Israel, from ritualistic laws to ceremonial laws to dietary and judicial laws.
Careful who you are calling ignorant and opportunistic cause that's not gonna get you very far here.
Name calling is typically what people resort to when they have been shown to be lacking the facts.

So, lets talk about the 10 commandments then.
Where in those 10 does it state WHICH date is the Sabbath?
Which commandment prohibits the consumption of any type of food or drink?

[RickD]

Paul,

We've asked Starhunter for a biblical basis that backs up his assertions. He hasn't given any specific verses from scripture that he thinks back his assertions. He's just given generic reasons that he thinks the bible promotes.

And now, despite what the bible actually says, he claims believers are supposed to follow the 10 commandments.

If he actually read Exodus 20 in context, he would see that the 10 commandments were given specifically to Israel.

Look what it says here, before the 10 commandments are listed. Keep in mind that this is what God said:

20 Then God spoke all these words, saying,

2 “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of [a]slavery.

He is speaking to a specific people at a specific time.

[PaulSacramento]

Paul,

We've asked Starhunter for a biblical basis that backs up his assertions. He hasn't given any specific verses from scripture that he thinks back his assertions. He's just given generic reasons that he thinks the bible promotes.

And now, despite what the bible actually says, he claims believers are supposed to follow the 10 commandments.

If he actually read Exodus 20 in context, he would see that the 10 commandments were given specifically to Israel.

Look what it says here, before the 10 commandments are listed. Keep in mind that this is what God said:

20 Then God spoke all these words, saying,

2 “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of [a]slavery.

He is speaking to a specific people at a specific time.

I know, but even IF we follow the view that, as gentiles, we are no under the Law ( which according to the Jerusalem council in Acts, we are not), there is still NO law that prohibits drinking and there is NO date given for the observance of the Sabbath, only that we work 6 days and rest on the seventh.

I mean, IF we follow the letter AND the intent of the law of course.

[PaulSacramento]

Of course, IF we take the 10 then it seems that people that state that a believer is NOT following the commandments of God BUT can't state what commandment they are breaking, that they ( the accusers) would be "bearing false witness against their neighbor".

[PaulSacramento]

As for the Sabbath, this is what is written:

Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor, and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, your male servant, or your female servant, or your livestock, or the sojourner who is within your gates. For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

— Exodus 20:8-11

Some state that gentiles are under the Laws given to Noah:
The Noahide laws are:
Do not deny God.
Do not blaspheme God.
Do not murder.
Do not engage in incestuous, adulterous or homosexual relationships.
Do not steal.
Do not eat of a live animal.


The council in Jerusalem stated:

At the Council, following advice offered by Simon Peter (Acts 15:7–11), the apostle James submitted a proposal, which was accepted by the Church and known as the Apostolic Decree:

It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood.

But, returning to the Sabbath:
We must never forget that the Son of God IS Lord of the Sabbath and that:
"The sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath."

The whole point of the Sabbath, as stated by God, is to give a day of rest TO God.
God did not say WHAT day, He said :
Work 6 and rest on the 7th.

IMO, the RCC actually gets this one right:

The Catholic Church views the commandment to “remember the Sabbath day and keep it holy” (Exodus 20:8-10) as an essential part of observing the command to “love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul and with all your mind.”(Mark 2:27-28) [42] Catholic teaching emphasizes the holiness of the Sabbath day (Exodus 31:15),[43] connects the Sabbath with God’s rest after the six days of creation (Exodus 20:11),[44] views the Sabbath as a reminder of Israel’s liberation from bondage (Deuteronomy 5:15),[45] and views God’s example of resting on the seventh day as an example for human resting and protesting the servitude of work and the worship of money. (Exodus 31:17, 23:12) [46] The Catholic Catechism discusses many incidents when Jesus was accused of violating the Sabbath law, and points out that Jesus never fails to respect the holiness of this day.(Mark 1:21, John 9:16) Jesus is described as giving the Sabbath law its authentic and authoritative interpretation: "The sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath."(Mark 2:27) With compassion, Christ declares the Sabbath for doing good rather than harm, for saving life rather than killing.(Mark 3:4)[47]

Sunday is distinguished from the Sabbath, which it follows. According to Catholic teaching, ceremonial observance of Christ’s resurrection on the first day of the week replaces that of the Sabbath.

Sunday is described as a fulfillment of the spiritual truth of the Jewish Sabbath and an announcement of man's eternal rest in God.[48] The Catholic Catechism describes Sunday celebration as observing the “moral commandment inscribed by nature in the human heart to render to God an outward, visible, public, and regular worship.” Thus, Sunday worship fulfills the “moral command of the Old Covenant, taking up its rhythm and spirit in the weekly celebration of the Creator and Redeemer of his people.”[49] The Catholic Church teaches that the Lord’s day should be “a day of grace and rest from work” to cultivate their “familial, cultural, social, and religious lives.”[50] On Sundays and other holy days, faithful Christians are to refrain from work and activities that hinder the worship owed to God, the joy proper to the Lord's Day, works of mercy, and the “appropriate relaxation of mind and body.”[51] Christians also sanctify Sunday by giving time and care to their families and relatives, often difficult to do on other days of the week. “Sunday is a time for reflection, silence, cultivation of the mind, and meditation which furthers the growth of the Christian interior life.”[52] In addition to one’s own rest, Christians should avoid making unnecessary demands on others that would hinder them from observing the Lord's Day.[53]

[Mallz]

Just wanted to point out...
If you look into Ancient Jewish culture. The whole wine is grape juice thing becomes completely ridiculous. Beyond ridiculous...
There is no reason and logic in this stance SH.
I love you, but you're off the wrong track here...

[Starhunter]

I'm just wondering why the ten commandments are considered to be the enemy?

"To love the Lord your God with all your heart and your neighbor as yourself." How hard can that be? Too hard for many.

Nothing wrong with that, at all, we love the ten commandments, EXCEPT NUMBER 4 the Sabbath, in particular the seventh day Sabbath. Sunday - OK, Friday OK, Wednesday OK, but Saturday "- Noooo ! Not Saturday the seventh day."
Wow, that is desperate.

Let's forget the Sabbath, and stay with the text that says "The Sabbath was made for man and not man for the Sabbath."
Mark 2:27.

Our greatest scholars here will tell us that the word "man" means "Jew," because the commandments were given to the Jews, and therefore whatever was given to the Jews is all for the Jews only - like all of the Old Testament as well. But especially the fourth commandment on the Sabbath - it's for the Jews only.
Then in I Corinthians 11:9 it says that the woman was created for "man," and not the other way around.
Consulting with our greatest bottle hugging scholars - "Man" means "Jew" and therefor women were only made for the "Jews."
Hands off the women Christian Gentiles.

Back to alcoholics anonymous, today we find many professions where it is dangerous to have any amount of alcohol in the blood, and why is that dear scholars of renown? because lives are at stake with positions of extreme responsibility, and alcohol in the blood interferes with sound judgement.
In fact many governments have passed laws to make it illegal to have a blood alcohol level on certain jobs. You can be jailed for having a mild drink on the job.

But here is the so called Christian minister and or ordinary witness for the King of the universe, with many eternal lives at stake, an extremely high responsibility and privilege, - holding onto the bottle, off guard to the enemy of souls, allowing his mind to be temporarily numbed, perhaps lacking self discipline for the greater good...?

(Edited)

[abelcainsbrother]

Matthew 18:20" For where two or three are gathered together in my name,there I am in the midst."

Galations 3:11"But that no flesh shall be justified by the law in the sight of God,it is evident: for,The just shall live by faith."

Matthew 7:4 "Or how wilt thou say to thy brother,Let me pull out the speck out of thine eye; and,behold a beam is in thine own eye?"

Matthew 11:28 " Come unto me,all ye that labor and are heavy laden,and I will give you rest."