What do you say?

[Judah]

I have heard it said a number of times just lately...

When somebody has died, especially when they have been suffering a lot, a commonly made comment is "now he is at peace" or "she has gone to a better place".
Of course it is meant kindly to console the ones left behind, but what of the possibility that it is one huge lie?
If the one who died is not saved, according to our Christian beliefs, they are very unlikley to be at peace or in a better place.
Do you agree to the sentiment, suppressing your own knowledge of truth because it seems the kindest thing to do?
Is it more loving to go along with it - or to uncloak it?

What do you say?

[Canuckster1127]

I have heard it said a number of times just lately...

When somebody has died, especially when they have been suffering a lot, a commonly made comment is "now he is at peace" or "she has gone to a better place".
Of course it is meant kindly to console the ones left behind, but what of the possibility that it is one huge lie?
If the one who died is not saved, according to our Christian beliefs, they are very unlikley to be at peace or in a better place.
Do you agree to the sentiment, suppressing your own knowledge of truth because it seems the kindest thing to do?
Is it more loving to go along with it - or to uncloak it?

What do you say?

I wrestled with this greatly as a pastor. There's nothing more sad and more hopeless that doing a funeral for someone for whom there is no real evidence that they knew Christ and were saved.

Where I landed on it, was that I've come to realize that funerals are for the living, not the dead. It is a point in time for the family and friends to gather, put an exclamation point to the loss and begin the process of closure and dealing with the grief involved.

When I was approached by anyone to do a funeral whom I did not know I would ask whether there was a church involved in the deceased's life and if not, then I would be willing to do the funeral under the following conditions,

1. I wanted to meet with the immediate family before the funeral to learn more about the deceased but also, more importantly, where they are with Christ.

2. I was always careful during a funeral to not attempt to preach someone into heaven who clearly had no evidence in their life that these issues mattered to them. Neither would I preach them into hell. I would show respect and speak as positively as I could.

3. I would not do a funeral without permission from the family to include a brief gospel message. very short and to the point, speaking of hope and how it is found in Christ. If I was not given permission to do this, I would respectfully decline to do the funeral, but offer to provide support in any other way I could, including attending the funeral, and providing grief counselling to any in the family who wished it. I had a few decline my services on that basis, which was fine. Most accepted and I never had anyone copmplain after that I had inappropriately conducted the service or disrespect the family's wishes.

I believe I probably have used some platitudes during that time along the lines you state, although I did try and avoid it. More often than not, I would listen to others when they would say them to me and then look to me for some form of assurance, and I would say something along the lines of "They are in God's hands now."

It's not an easy thing to do, to face the death of another and not be able to offer hope. I focus on the hope of those there rather than the one who died. I offer comfort where I can. The funeral of a believer in this regard is so much easier to do because despite the sorrow, that hope and assurance make for an entirely different funeral.

[DIP]

This is one of the most profound questions I have encountered. It is profound because it speaks to who we really are as Christians. Our ministry and witness in this life does not just take its form in words. It is our actions, body language and willingness to just be present in the moment of someone's pain and loss. That alone can often times reveal to the grieving who we really are and who we really serve. I truly believe that there are times when scripture instructs us and the Holy Spirit guides us to just stay quiet. To just comfort with a heart felt glance or embrace. This is the moment where human utterances fail and just our willingness to listen speaks louder than words.

There is a certain degree of vanity involved when we feel we always have to say something... every time. And, we all know where vanity can lead. God has given us a spirit of peace and not confusion. So, in these difficult moments, when someone has lost so very, very much, our words will often not fill in that loss, they will not suddenly stop the tears or pacify understandable anger. It is in these moments I have found that the most peacful and effective tool God has guided me towards, is silence. It is in these times that God can call us to be the strongest and bravest, because it is in that moment that we see in that grieving person's eyes the reflection of our future pain. When it will then be our turn to cry and be consoled.

If asked I will always speak God's truth in Love. I liked Canuckster's response of "They are now in God's hands." So true! (I will use it one day also I am sure.) Yet, it is simple, honest, and plants God's seed to grow in a grieving heart.

Suffering is real and in this world inevitable. Yet, when, it's role in life is properly understood, can lead the honest atheist to God and from there to Our Lord Jesus the Christ.

[Judah]

Hi DIP.

It seems that I have been hearing it said so often just lately - "she is at peace" and "he has gone to a better place" and other kindly cultural notions of whatever might be hereafter assuming such a state or place exists. Well, I would certainly like to hope that is so.

But as a Christian I cannot always agree truthfully with those sentiments. For folk who had no time for Christ when they were alive, who did not accept God's gift of grace so have a saving faith in Him, then I would tell a lie against my Christian faith to agree to such sentiments as those. But neither would I be so cruel as to say as much right then to the ones who are left behind and hurting.

What in fact I do is turn the focus back on the bereaved instead, commenting with compassion on some aspect of their experience of the loss. "You will miss him very much" or "It really hurts to lose someone you love so much" - that kind of thing.
That is one way to avoid compromising the truth of one's Christian faith. After all, it is for God to make the judgement.

There is a time and place, and Christian witnessing is often by deeds rather than words, as you so rightly point out.

[Michelle]

I have heard it said a number of times just lately...

When somebody has died, especially when they have been suffering a lot, a commonly made comment is "now he is at peace" or "she has gone to a better place".
Of course it is meant kindly to console the ones left behind, but what of the possibility that it is one huge lie?
If the one who died is not saved, according to our Christian beliefs, they are very unlikley to be at peace or in a better place.
Do you agree to the sentiment, suppressing your own knowledge of truth because it seems the kindest thing to do?
Is it more loving to go along with it - or to uncloak it?

What do you say?

Thanks so much for your advice in this post. I have been in this same situation many times and each time it doesn't get any easier. Most of my dearest friends are elderly and much older than me, so their numbers are starting to dwindle sadly.

I wrestled with this greatly as a pastor. There's nothing more sad and more hopeless that doing a funeral for someone for whom there is no real evidence that they knew Christ and were saved.

Where I landed on it, was that I've come to realize that funerals are for the living, not the dead. It is a point in time for the family and friends to gather, put an exclamation point to the loss and begin the process of closure and dealing with the grief involved.

When I was approached by anyone to do a funeral whom I did not know I would ask whether there was a church involved in the deceased's life and if not, then I would be willing to do the funeral under the following conditions,

1. I wanted to meet with the immediate family before the funeral to learn more about the deceased but also, more importantly, where they are with Christ.

2. I was always careful during a funeral to not attempt to preach someone into heaven who clearly had no evidence in their life that these issues mattered to them. Neither would I preach them into hell. I would show respect and speak as positively as I could.

3. I would not do a funeral without permission from the family to include a brief gospel message. very short and to the point, speaking of hope and how it is found in Christ. If I was not given permission to do this, I would respectfully decline to do the funeral, but offer to provide support in any other way I could, including attending the funeral, and providing grief counselling to any in the family who wished it. I had a few decline my services on that basis, which was fine. Most accepted and I never had anyone copmplain after that I had inappropriately conducted the service or disrespect the family's wishes.

I believe I probably have used some platitudes during that time along the lines you state, although I did try and avoid it. More often than not, I would listen to others when they would say them to me and then look to me for some form of assurance, and I would say something along the lines of "They are in God's hands now."

It's not an easy thing to do, to face the death of another and not be able to offer hope. I focus on the hope of those there rather than the one who died. I offer comfort where I can. The funeral of a believer in this regard is so much easier to do because despite the sorrow, that hope and assurance make for an entirely different funeral.

[puritan lad]

That's a tough one. One of the questions in my elder training is similar.

A make-believe family names Jones. Mrs. Jones and her kids are faithful Christians and are in your congregation. Mr. Jones is not. He is a very faithful husband, a nice, friendly, generous man, and a good father. He even helps at church events, and allows Mrs. Jones and the children to worship without trying to interfere. But he is adamantly not a Christian.

Mr. Jones dies in a tragic accident. Mrs. Jones and the children come to to for comfort, hoping that he might have made it into heaven. What do you tell them?

First and foremost, the gospel message cannot be compromised, though it would be very tempting to do so here. The fact is, that if he was not a Christian, he is in Hell.

Of course, this is something that you cannot just blurt out, although if Mrs. Jones and the children are Christians, they already know this.

The best thing to do is to focus on the Spiritual well-being of the remaining family. Whatever estate Mr. Jones finds himself in, nothing you say will change that.

(If I were a pastor, I would simply refuse to do a non-Christian funeral, lest I be tempted to compromise the gospel).

[Canuckster1127]

That's a tough one. One of the questions in my elder training is similar.

A make-believe family names Jones. Mrs. Jones and her kids are faithful Christians and are in your congregation. Mr. Jones is not. He is a very faithful husband, a nice, friendly, generous man, and a good father. He even helps at church events, and allows Mrs. Jones and the children to worship without trying to interfere. But he is adamantly not a Christian.

Mr. Jones dies in a tragic accident. Mrs. Jones and the children come to to for comfort, hoping that he might have made it into heaven. What do you tell them?

First and foremost, the gospel message cannot be compromised, though it would be very tempting to do so here. The fact is, that if he was not a Christian, he is in Hell.

Of course, this is something that you cannot just blurt out, although if Mrs. Jones and the children are Christians, they already know this.

The best thing to do is to focus on the Spiritual well-being of the remaining family. Whatever estate Mr. Jones finds himself in, nothing you say will change that.

(If I were a pastor, I would simply refuse to do a non-Christian funeral, lest I be tempted to compromise the gospel).

We're pretty close in agreement here. I have some very good friends whom I respect in ministry who take the final position as well. I've done non-Christian funerals before, mostly in the context of my ministry as a Chaplain for the American Cancer Society. I've held to the standard I've described above and attended funerals that I declined to perform because the standards I applied were not acceptable to the family.

Where I have performed the funeral, the gospel was preached.

I honestly don't know if there has been fruit in that regard. But then, that's ultimately not my responsibility.

[Judah]

1 Corinthians 7: 12 To the rest I say this (I, not the Lord): If any brother has a wife who is not a believer and she is willing to live with him, he must not divorce her. 13 And if a woman has a husband who is not a believer and he is willing to live with her, she must not divorce him. 14 For the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife has been sanctified through her believing husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy.

This passage has always confused me a little. The unbelieving partner is said to be sanctified through the believing partner.
So in the case of PL's Mr Jones, he will have been sanctified - er, but he is not justified, is he?
What happens, according to Scripture, to a sanctified person on death? It seems like there are two situations and maybe more: justified and sanctified, and sanctified.
I think I might also be asking "what exactly is sanctified?"
Actually, I remember asking that when I was a very new Christian and was surprised that the more mature Christians backed away from it, including a pastor. Is this a can of worms?

[puritan lad]

1 Corinthians 7: 12 To the rest I say this (I, not the Lord): If any brother has a wife who is not a believer and she is willing to live with him, he must not divorce her. 13 And if a woman has a husband who is not a believer and he is willing to live with her, she must not divorce him. 14 For the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife has been sanctified through her believing husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy.

This passage has always confused me a little. The unbelieving partner is said to be sanctified through the believing partner.
So in the case of PL's Mr Jones, he will have been sanctified - er, but he is not justified, is he?
What happens, according to Scripture, to a sanctified person on death? It seems like there are two situations and maybe more: justified and sanctified, and sanctified.
I think I might also be asking "what exactly is sanctified?"
Actually, I remember asking that when I was a very new Christian and was surprised that the more mature Christians backed away from it, including a pastor. Is this a can of worms? :shock:

Good one. The word "sanctified" merely means that the person is set apart. The family is in Covenant with God, and will even receive some earthly blessings of the Covenant. The children are looked upon by God as Holy, just as Abraham's children (which is why the Reformed Churches practice infant baptism).

However, this does not mean that the husband is automatically saved because the wife is, as shown in verse 16

"Wife, how do you know whether you will save your husband? Husband, how do you know whether you will save your wife?" (1 Cor. 7:16)