Check this anti-abortion site out.

[MarcusOfLycia]

So, the main arguments I've read in favor of abortion are the two definitively baseless claims that fetus' are "not human" and "are parasites". Really? In an atheistic worldview, isn't morality tied to reproduction of the human species and spreading genes? Then isn't preserving the life of our children of paramount importance? I'm confused how fetus' with human DNA and developing in a system designed for them (their mother's), why either of those claims made is even sensical. Then again, not much of atheist morality makes much sense to me, because I have a hard time finding non-self-defeating claims.

[FearlessLlearsy]

So far, the arguements i have read in favor of abortion are beyond foolishness. I have no lesser ways to say it in words. Plain ignorance and misinterpretations of basic biological terms and studies that i have learned last year in 10th grade

Regarding the cases of Rape, honestly, murder remains murder...
Regarding the cases where the mother can die if she gives birth, thats a whole different story, wouldnt that be then self preservation?

[FearlessLlearsy]

Honestly, i came with the conclusion that different people share different opinions. It is not because my opinion may be right that i may convince someone else who strongly holds a contrasting view. In all, murder shall remain murder by lexical definition. In all honesty, as much as abortion comes to my mind, its a product of sin. Altough I think abortion is murder, another may share a different view. If i should share my reasons why abortion is murder and that other person resists me, what else can i do? Wouldnt it be at this point like talking to a wall?

[Reactionary]

Regarding the cases of Rape, honestly, murder remains murder...
Regarding the cases where the mother can die if she gives birth, thats a whole different story, wouldnt that be then self preservation?

I believe that women who were, unfortunately, raped should visit the nearest healthcare center as soon as possible. Over there they can report everything to the authorities and get the "day after" pill which should prevent the eventual pregnancy. I agree that murder is murder, that child doesn't deserve death because of its father's sins - makes no sense.

If pregnancy seriously endangers the mother's health, then it's another story. If only one of those two lives can be saved, I believe that the mother's life should be prioritised. However, the child need not be slaughtered as it's usually done, but the doctors should do their best to try and save that life... miracles do happen.

However, those are extremely rare situations. Most abortions are performed out of sheer convenience, and definitely should be banned.

Honestly, i came with the conclusion that different people share different opinions. It is not because my opinion may be right that i may convince someone else who strongly holds a contrasting view. In all, murder shall remain murder by lexical definition. In all honesty, as much as abortion comes to my mind, its a product of sin. Altough I think abortion is murder, another may share a different view. If i should share my reasons why abortion is murder and that other person resists me, what else can i do? Wouldnt it be at this point like talking to a wall?

I'll tell you how I became pro-life. I used to be "pro-choice" (such a hypocritical term, as the unborn don't have a choice to live or die), let's say that my mind was poisoned by "liberal" ideas. Then I had a discussion with a few Christians, it lasted several weeks and they were very patient with me. Their arguments were much stronger and I finally had to give up. Soon after I embraced the pro-life position as I realized that it's the only one that's logical. "Pro-choicers", however, often resort to unreasonable arguments... probably because they don't have any reasonable ones.

[RickD]

I believe that women who were, unfortunately, raped should visit the nearest healthcare center as soon as possible. Over there they can report everything to the authorities and get the "day after" pill which should prevent the eventual pregnancy. I agree that murder is murder, that child doesn't deserve death because of its father's sins - makes no sense.

If you're pro life, you might want to research what you wrote about the "day after" or morning after pill. The makers of the pill say it doesn't end a pregnancy. That's true in their warped thinking, because it seems they've changed the definition of pregnancy. In their mind, pregnancy begins when the embryo attaches to the uterus. So, the morning after pill may prevent an embryo from attaching to the uterus, thus ending a pregnancy that has already begun at the moment of conception.

[FearlessLlearsy]

yes, at the end of the day, its still murder. But the question boils down to this: 19 years later, when the "dead"kid was suppose to graduate... how does a mom like this feel? I want to know. We are all talking about this, but what about those women who have chosen to be... indirectly MURDERERS. What differentiates them with a convicted felon who committed thief (which is a much lighter then murder)

[Reactionary]

yes, at the end of the day, its still murder. But the question boils down to this: 19 years later, when the "dead"kid was suppose to graduate... how does a mom like this feel? I want to know. We are all talking about this, but what about those women who have chosen to be... indirectly MURDERERS. What differentiates them with a convicted felon who committed thief (which is a much lighter then murder)

I know that many women suffer from serious mental consequences after they do it, however "experts" often attribute this to "mental" or "hormonal side effects", trying to cover up the fact that their consciences are tormenting them. Humans aren't animals, and no matter how much they're conditioned into moral relativity, only few manage to achieve total indifference towards other people, including the unborn.

If you're pro life, you might want to research what you wrote about the "day after" or morning after pill. The makers of the pill say it doesn't end a pregnancy. That's true in their warped thinking, because it seems they've changed the definition of pregnancy. In their mind, pregnancy begins when the embryo attaches to the uterus. So, the morning after pill may prevent an embryo from attaching to the uterus, thus ending a pregnancy that has already begun at the moment of conception.

Yes, I'm aware that there have been controversies about the "day after" pill. I believe (I don't know as it's not a part of my expertise) that if taken quickly enough, it could prevent fertilization as it's a rather long and gradual process where it's difficult to define the very moment of conception. Though you were right about me jumping in an area I'm not very well informed of.

[Kurieuo]

If you're pro life, you might want to research what you wrote about the "day after" or morning after pill. The makers of the pill say it doesn't end a pregnancy. That's true in their warped thinking, because it seems they've changed the definition of pregnancy. In their mind, pregnancy begins when the embryo attaches to the uterus. So, the morning after pill may prevent an embryo from attaching to the uterus, thus ending a pregnancy that has already begun at the moment of conception.

Yes, I'm aware that there have been controversies about the "day after" pill. I believe (I don't know as it's not a part of my expertise) that if taken quickly enough, it could prevent fertilization as it's a rather long and gradual process where it's difficult to define the very moment of conception. Though you were right about me jumping in an area I'm not very well informed of.

Back in my university days, the GP told us (myself and my now wife), that the double dose will stop the pregnancy. We inquired what if it had already happened, and he said then the baby would be fine.

We know better now. He lied. And while unlikely, my wife (and I) hate to think about the possiblity of what may have been.

There are also drugs marketed as contraceptives, which stop the fetus attaching and expel the life, rather than stopping actual conception. So its important for women to know how what they are taking and how they work.

[neo-x]

So, the main arguments I've read in favor of abortion are the two definitively baseless claims that fetus' are "not human" and "are parasites". Really? In an atheistic worldview, isn't morality tied to reproduction of the human species and spreading genes? Then isn't preserving the life of our children of paramount importance? I'm confused how fetus' with human DNA and developing in a system designed for them (their mother's), why either of those claims made is even sensical. Then again, not much of atheist morality makes much sense to me, because I have a hard time finding non-self-defeating claims.

I agree, I hate it when people call the gift of life, as not human, pre-human, parasite. that is just plain It is so wrong and immoral. Atheists have no morality they just stick to the more popular or radical one.

[FearlessLlearsy]

Atheists have no morality

Neo, you would be surprise to know as well, how many Christian women take contraceptive drugns. Of course, I add, women walking with the "label" Christian

[neo-x]

I noticed Fearless but thnx for bringing it up anyway.

[Murray]

It's a silly thing to say that one can be pro-choice about murder.

If you believe that abortion is murder, then saying "well, nobody wants to murder, but it should be her choice to murder" makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. essentially anyone claiming to be pro-choice is pro-murder. Obviously they don't feel strongly enough about it so they are ok with it.

Ummmm no.. Once again Pro-"Murder" would be stating that YOU want EVERY baby to be aborted. Pro-*Choice* (which is what it actually is) is when you allow someone else to make a choice, murder or not, it's a neutral thing.

This means that if you're Pro-Choice, you may not be a person who would ever let an abortion of your own baby to ever happen, however you believe it should be a choice for all. Pro-Abortion would mean you are the type of person who would abort every baby you ever have.

Basically ""Pro-Abortion"" would mean you're making the choice for all (which isn't an option in this controversal debate and therefore "Pro-Abortion does not exist), While Pro-Choice would mean you're letting other people decide themselves.



I believe murder is aginst the law.......The debate is weither abortion qualifies as murder or not.

*edit* -

Ok just to make this PERFECTLY clear considering your past posts...

Pro-Abortion = Abortion to All
Pro-Life = No Abortion
Pro-Choice = Choice between Abortion or No Abortion

[SnowDrops]

yes, at the end of the day, its still murder. But the question boils down to this: 19 years later, when the "dead"kid was suppose to graduate... how does a mom like this feel? I want to know. We are all talking about this, but what about those women who have chosen to be... indirectly MURDERERS. What differentiates them with a convicted felon who committed thief (which is a much lighter then murder)

I know that many women suffer from serious mental consequences after they do it, however "experts" often attribute this to "mental" or "hormonal side effects", trying to cover up the fact that their consciences are tormenting them. Humans aren't animals, and no matter how much they're conditioned into moral relativity, only few manage to achieve total indifference towards other people, including the unborn.

You know what, I don't think it should be banned. But after the abortion, doctors must show women their child, explain what happened and both women and doctors sign a form that they are satisfied with the procedure. If you think it's your choice, fine, choose! I don't think we would get nearly as many abortions!

[SnowDrops]

Btw, women do have the choice. No one forces them to have sex, or at least without taking a pill first. I heard a story about a women who got 10-20+ abortions because "who bothers to take those pills anyways"

[Reactionary]

Btw, women do have the choice. No one forces them to have sex, or at least without taking a pill first. I heard a story about a women who got 10-20+ abortions because "who bothers to take those pills anyways"

I agree. Guess what else - a study done in my country (I've mentioned it to Fearless but I couldn't find a link) showed that cca. 60-70% of abortions were performed by married women, many of which already had two to three children. At the same time, the rate of abortions among teens and young women was surprisingly low. This gives me a shred of optimism, because our generation is proving to be more responsible sexually, regardless of stereotypes about "teens that lack sexual education".