Besides semantics, that's what I'm saying. That's why the term, "Mother of God" just doesn't sit right with me.Storyteller wrote:She had an influence on Him in His human form.
Catholicism Questions
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RickD
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Re: Catholicism Questions
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
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Storyteller
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Re: Catholicism Questions
How about this for an idea?
Marys only sin was original sin. God chose her to bear His Son, God Himself, as a human. Maybe she was as close to living like Christ, Godly as any of us dream to
Marys only sin was original sin. God chose her to bear His Son, God Himself, as a human. Maybe she was as close to living like Christ, Godly as any of us dream to
Faith is a knowledge within the heart, beyond the reach of proof - Kahlil Gibran
Re: Catholicism Questions
What's not to see Rick, neither 'Mother of God' nor 'Christ is God' is found in scripture. We know Christ is God (even though the term does not appear in scripture). Why is it so strange that 'Mother of God' can also be true even though the term does not appear in scripture or that 'Trinity' is true even though it does not appear in scripture?RickD wrote:Sorry for my slowness today, but I'm still not seeing it.Byblos wrote:For the same reason 'Christ is God' is not found in scripture but we know it's true.RickD wrote:If "Mother of God" is the proper, scriptural term, why is it never in scripture? Instead, the term, "Mother of Christ" or "Mother of Jesus" is used.
Last edited by Byblos on Thu May 12, 2016 1:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Let us proclaim the mystery of our faith: Christ has died, Christ is risen, Christ will come again.
Lord I am not worthy that you should enter under my roof, but only say the word and my soul shall be healed.
Lord I am not worthy that you should enter under my roof, but only say the word and my soul shall be healed.
Re: Catholicism Questions
Now you're dangerously approaching Catholic territory. Proceed at your own peril.Storyteller wrote:How about this for an idea?
Marys only sin was original sin. God chose her to bear His Son, God Himself, as a human. Maybe she was as close to living like Christ, Godly as any of us dream to
Let us proclaim the mystery of our faith: Christ has died, Christ is risen, Christ will come again.
Lord I am not worthy that you should enter under my roof, but only say the word and my soul shall be healed.
Lord I am not worthy that you should enter under my roof, but only say the word and my soul shall be healed.
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RickD
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Re: Catholicism Questions
There's not even a consensus that nestorius even believed the heresy he was accused of. If he didn't, then Christotokos may be correct.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
Re: Catholicism Questions
Any time anyone tried to separate Jesus the God from Jesus the man they have fallen in one heresy or another.RickD wrote:There's not even a consensus that nestorius even believed the heresy he was accused of. If he didn't, then Christotokos may be correct.
Let us proclaim the mystery of our faith: Christ has died, Christ is risen, Christ will come again.
Lord I am not worthy that you should enter under my roof, but only say the word and my soul shall be healed.
Lord I am not worthy that you should enter under my roof, but only say the word and my soul shall be healed.
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Storyteller
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Re: Catholicism Questions
All by myselfByblos wrote:Now you're dangerously approaching Catholic territory. Proceed at your own peril.Storyteller wrote:How about this for an idea?
Marys only sin was original sin. God chose her to bear His Son, God Himself, as a human. Maybe she was as close to living like Christ, Godly as any of us dream to
Okay..
Communion, why do I have to be a practising Catholic?
Faith is a knowledge within the heart, beyond the reach of proof - Kahlil Gibran
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RickD
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Re: Catholicism Questions
To me it's different. "Mother of Jesus" is different than "Mother of God". And only the former is in scripture.Byblos wrote:What's not to see Rick, neither 'Mother of God' nor 'Christ is God' is found in scripture. We know Christ is God (even though the term does not appear in scripture). Why is it so strange that 'Mother of God' can also be true even though the term does not appear in scripture or that 'Trinity' is true even though it does not appear in scripture?RickD wrote:Sorry for my slowness today, but I'm still not seeing it.Byblos wrote:For the same reason 'Christ is God' is not found in scripture but we know it's true.RickD wrote:If "Mother of God" is the proper, scriptural term, why is it never in scripture? Instead, the term, "Mother of Christ" or "Mother of Jesus" is used.
I realize that a word doesn't have to be in scripture to be biblical. Like Trinity. It seems to me that if a title of someone is true, like "Mother of God", it would have to be clear in scripture. At least as clear as "Mother of Jesus", which IS in scripture.
Perhaps with more studying I'll see what you and Jac are saying. I just don't see it now.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
-
RickD
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Re: Catholicism Questions
And you're sure Nestorius did that? There's no consensus that he did.Byblos wrote:Any time anyone tried to separate Jesus the God from Jesus the man they have fallen in one heresy or another.RickD wrote:There's not even a consensus that nestorius even believed the heresy he was accused of. If he didn't, then Christotokos may be correct.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
-
RickD
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Re: Catholicism Questions
Byblos is right. That sounds too Catholic.Storyteller wrote:How about this for an idea?
Marys only sin was original sin. God chose her to bear His Son, God Himself, as a human. Maybe she was as close to living like Christ, Godly as any of us dream to
I bet you can't make the argument from scripture that Mary was without sin. No cheating by using Catholic doctrine. Scripture only.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
-
Storyteller
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Re: Catholicism Questions
But Christ is God.
Why is it different?
Acknowledging her as the Mother of God doesnt mean you acknowledge her importance in Catholicism.
Give me five mins then, will see.
Why is it different?
Acknowledging her as the Mother of God doesnt mean you acknowledge her importance in Catholicism.
Give me five mins then, will see.
Faith is a knowledge within the heart, beyond the reach of proof - Kahlil Gibran
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Jac3510
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Re: Catholicism Questions
Maybe that will help.RickD wrote:To me it's different. "Mother of Jesus" "Jesus is the Christ" is different than "Mother of God" "Jesus is God." And only the former is in scripture.
I realize that a word doesn't have to be in scripture to be biblical. Like Trinity. It seems to me that if a title of someone is true, like "Mother of God" "Jesus is God", it would have to be clear in scripture. At least as clear as "Mother of Jesus" "Jesus is the Christ", which IS in scripture.
Perhaps with more studying I'll see what you and Jac are saying. I just don't see it now.
In the meantime, I'll just suggest that truth doesn't ask you to be comfortable or easy with it. It just asks for acceptance. Comfort and ease often comes, if it comes at all, later. But you've got it backwards if you want to become comfortable with truth before you can accept it.
And that, brothers and sisters, is the kind of foolishness you get people who insist on denying biblical theism. A good illustration of any as the length people will go to avoid acknowledging basic truths.Proinsias wrote:I don't think you are hearing me. Preference for ice cream is a moral issue
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RickD
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Re: Catholicism Questions
No Jac. Crossing out and changing what I said doesn't help.Jac3510 wrote:Maybe that will help.RickD wrote:To me it's different. "Mother of Jesus" "Jesus is the Christ" is different than "Mother of God" "Jesus is God." And only the former is in scripture.
I realize that a word doesn't have to be in scripture to be biblical. Like Trinity. It seems to me that if a title of someone is true, like "Mother of God" "Jesus is God", it would have to be clear in scripture. At least as clear as "Mother of Jesus" "Jesus is the Christ", which IS in scripture.
Perhaps with more studying I'll see what you and Jac are saying. I just don't see it now.
In the meantime, I'll just suggest that truth doesn't ask you to be comfortable or easy with it. It just asks for acceptance. Comfort and ease often comes, if it comes at all, later. But you've got it backwards if you want to become comfortable with truth before you can accept it.
I'm not usually uncomfortable with theological truth. I have no bias one way or another with this. Even though I know if believing that "Mother of God" is biblical doesn't mean I have to believe in the Catholic Mary, the term still didn't seem right. And usually when something doesn't seem right, it isn't. At least when it comes to something pretty basic in theology. I didn't understand divine simplicity, yet there was no feeling of uneasiness that came with it. I just didn't understand it. I'm getting the same feeling of uneasiness that I get when someone tries to tell me that the prosperity gospel is biblical, even though it's not explicit in scripture. It's a discernment kind of uneasiness.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow
St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
-
Jac3510
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Re: Catholicism Questions
That just doesn't seem right.RickD wrote:And usually when something doesn't seem right, it isn't. At least when it comes to something pretty basic in theology.
And that, brothers and sisters, is the kind of foolishness you get people who insist on denying biblical theism. A good illustration of any as the length people will go to avoid acknowledging basic truths.Proinsias wrote:I don't think you are hearing me. Preference for ice cream is a moral issue
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Jac3510
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Re: Catholicism Questions
If Mary wasn't the mother of God, who was she the mother of?
And that, brothers and sisters, is the kind of foolishness you get people who insist on denying biblical theism. A good illustration of any as the length people will go to avoid acknowledging basic truths.Proinsias wrote:I don't think you are hearing me. Preference for ice cream is a moral issue