Evidence for God from Science

RickD wrote: ↑Wed Nov 07, 2018 10:32 am

PaulSacramento wrote: ↑Wed Nov 07, 2018 9:24 am

edwardmurphy wrote: ↑Wed Nov 07, 2018 8:13 am

PaulSacramento wrote: ↑Tue Nov 06, 2018 12:55 pmOr the opposite.

Paul, the United States is the best country in the world. The way that we do everything is the best way to do it because that's how we do it and we're the best. Our healthcare system is the best in the world because it's in America and America is the best place with the best stuff. You only like your stuff because you're too Canadian to understand how crappy it is compared to our stuff. You're not happy, you've just been brainwashed into thinking that you are, and if you'd spent enough time here you'd realize that. I pity you for your ignorance.

I can say this, the US has, in principle, the potential to be the greatest country in the world.
Your constitution is well done, your view of the existence of inalienable rights is correct, your understanding of limited government is correct ( in theory if not in practice), your push for limited regulations and free market are correct.
Your push for free speech is, quite simply, the best around -
To protect the right to speak of the very person that says and stands for things that you would spend your lifetime opposing- THAT is TRUE free speech.


Problem is that you guys are so divided that you can't see the forest from the trees.

Paul,

You do realize that one of the reasons why the country is so divided, is because one side doesn't believe, in practice, in the things you listed above.

Yep, the problem is the BOTH think it is the OTHER.

PaulSacramento wrote: ↑Thu Nov 08, 2018 11:24 am

RickD wrote: ↑Wed Nov 07, 2018 10:32 am

PaulSacramento wrote: ↑Wed Nov 07, 2018 9:24 am

edwardmurphy wrote: ↑Wed Nov 07, 2018 8:13 am

PaulSacramento wrote: ↑Tue Nov 06, 2018 12:55 pmOr the opposite.

Paul, the United States is the best country in the world. The way that we do everything is the best way to do it because that's how we do it and we're the best. Our healthcare system is the best in the world because it's in America and America is the best place with the best stuff. You only like your stuff because you're too Canadian to understand how crappy it is compared to our stuff. You're not happy, you've just been brainwashed into thinking that you are, and if you'd spent enough time here you'd realize that. I pity you for your ignorance.

I can say this, the US has, in principle, the potential to be the greatest country in the world.
Your constitution is well done, your view of the existence of inalienable rights is correct, your understanding of limited government is correct ( in theory if not in practice), your push for limited regulations and free market are correct.
Your push for free speech is, quite simply, the best around -
To protect the right to speak of the very person that says and stands for things that you would spend your lifetime opposing- THAT is TRUE free speech.


Problem is that you guys are so divided that you can't see the forest from the trees.

Paul,

You do realize that one of the reasons why the country is so divided, is because one side doesn't believe, in practice, in the things you listed above.

Yep, the problem is the BOTH think it is the OTHER.

I was referring to one side not believing, in practice, in the things you listed above: constitution, inalienable rights, limited government, limited regulations and free market.

RickD wrote: ↑Thu Nov 08, 2018 12:44 pm

PaulSacramento wrote: ↑Thu Nov 08, 2018 11:24 am

RickD wrote: ↑Wed Nov 07, 2018 10:32 am

PaulSacramento wrote: ↑Wed Nov 07, 2018 9:24 am

edwardmurphy wrote: ↑Wed Nov 07, 2018 8:13 am

Paul, the United States is the best country in the world. The way that we do everything is the best way to do it because that's how we do it and we're the best. Our healthcare system is the best in the world because it's in America and America is the best place with the best stuff. You only like your stuff because you're too Canadian to understand how crappy it is compared to our stuff. You're not happy, you've just been brainwashed into thinking that you are, and if you'd spent enough time here you'd realize that. I pity you for your ignorance.

I can say this, the US has, in principle, the potential to be the greatest country in the world.
Your constitution is well done, your view of the existence of inalienable rights is correct, your understanding of limited government is correct ( in theory if not in practice), your push for limited regulations and free market are correct.
Your push for free speech is, quite simply, the best around -
To protect the right to speak of the very person that says and stands for things that you would spend your lifetime opposing- THAT is TRUE free speech.


Problem is that you guys are so divided that you can't see the forest from the trees.

Paul,

You do realize that one of the reasons why the country is so divided, is because one side doesn't believe, in practice, in the things you listed above.

Yep, the problem is the BOTH think it is the OTHER.

I was referring to one side not believing, in practice, in the things you listed above: constitution, inalienable rights, limited government, limited regulations and free market.

Yep and, I think from what I gather, that both sides think it is the other.
I truly believe that the left things that THEY are the ones for those things and so does the right.

RickD wrote: ↑Wed Nov 07, 2018 10:32 amYou do realize that one of the reasons why the country is so divided, is because one side doesn't believe, in practice, in the things you listed above.

No, Paul's right, as evidenced by your statement. Liberals don't believe in the things that you listed according to conservatives.

Personally, I believe strongly in all of those things, but I see them differently than you do. Furthermore, as I watch continuing efforts by GOP leaders to gut the regulations that protect us from malfeasance by major banks and corporations, remove climate change from the national dialogue, suppress voters who don't support them, and favor the needs of the wealthy few over the majority (including most of their own constituents) I wonder how you could possibly think that they care about the Constitution, inalienable rights, the well-being of the American people, the stability of our economy, and the existence of a legitimately free market.

Strange how the soft and moderate socialist took power of the Russian Duma (1906-1917) and there push to outlaw the police, which they did, attempt to create welfare state in slow stages that broke the system, and strange immigration laws and stealing elections is eerily familiar is the USA today.

The Communist infiltrated the socialist controlled Duma and brought more chaos into Petrograd and slowly elsewhere . WW1 was in full swing and strained the country. The powers that be who could have stopped it were inept. The reform policies and economy despite the war were improving the county, and the socialist controlled Duma did everything to hurt it marginalize.

The socialist controlled the media Russia played a big part pitting people against teach other. The communist agitated and then seized power.The Communist soon controlled or influenced the media of that era (Papers, books, plays, and the new-Radio craze of that time)

There were no police, no law enforcement. Mobs ruled the streets. Women were raped. crime increased exponentially. The Opposition were beaten or killed by manipulated mobs. There were condoned home invasions of opposition people live - and those that escaped were later hunted down as enemies of the state.

After this, the chaos became worse and the Communist took full control and turned against the soft and moderate socialist of the Duma and intelligentsia (elites) and branded them as enemies of the state and many were killed.

While socialist ideas sound great and noble bit there are those poised to take advantage of the chaos these brings and make useful idiots out of all noble minded socialists.

That is a historical summery of what actually happen and it was far worse than what I in bullet pint fashion touched on.

This is the same parallel we see today...

I am glad the war in Afghanistan is not big but however it is costly nevertheless... add that into the mix...

wow...
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B. W. wrote: ↑Sat Nov 10, 2018 3:15 pm Strange how the soft and moderate socialist took power of the Russian Duma (1906-1917) and there push to outlaw the police, which they did, attempt to create welfare state in slow stages that broke the system, and strange immigration laws and stealing elections is eerily familiar is the USA today.

The Communist infiltrated the socialist controlled Duma and brought more chaos into Petrograd and slowly elsewhere . WW1 was in full swing and strained the country. The powers that be who could have stopped it were inept. The reform policies and economy despite the war were improving the county, and the socialist controlled Duma did everything to hurt it marginalize.

The socialist controlled the media Russia played a big part pitting people against teach other. The communist agitated and then seized power.The Communist soon controlled or influenced the media of that era (Papers, books, plays, and the new-Radio craze of that time)

There were no police, no law enforcement. Mobs ruled the streets. Women were raped. crime increased exponentially. The Opposition were beaten or killed by manipulated mobs. There were condoned home invasions of opposition people live - and those that escaped were later hunted down as enemies of the state.

After this, the chaos became worse and the Communist took full control and turned against the soft and moderate socialist of the Duma and intelligentsia (elites) and branded them as enemies of the state and many were killed.

That is a historical summery of what actually happen and it was far worse than what I in bullet pint fashion touched on.

Almost nothing you wrote there is accurate. Where do you get this stuff?

B. W. wrote: ↑Sat Nov 10, 2018 3:15 pmWhile socialist ideas sound great and noble bit there are those poised to take advantage of the chaos these brings and make useful idiots out of all noble minded socialists.

What socialists? There are no socialists in mainstream American politics. None. At most there are a couple of social democrats - people who value both the free market economy and a strong social safety net. If they had their way America would be more like - brace yourself - Scandinavia.

It astounds me that you could possibly be so afraid of a handful of mild mannered social reformers with ideas like giving people free voter ID cards, expanding Medicaid to cover everyone, and lowering the cost of college tuition. Social democrats are not Bolsheviks, 2018 is not 1917, Congress is not the Duma, and the United States is not Russia.

B. W. wrote: ↑Sat Nov 10, 2018 3:15 pmThis is the same parallel we see today...

There are no parallels outside of your brain.

edwardmurphy wrote: ↑Sat Nov 10, 2018 6:29 pm

B. W. wrote: ↑Sat Nov 10, 2018 3:15 pm Strange how the soft and moderate socialist took power of the Russian Duma (1906-1917) and there push to outlaw the police, which they did, attempt to create welfare state in slow stages that broke the system, and strange immigration laws and stealing elections is eerily familiar is the USA today.

The Communist infiltrated the socialist controlled Duma and brought more chaos into Petrograd and slowly elsewhere . WW1 was in full swing and strained the country. The powers that be who could have stopped it were inept. The reform policies and economy despite the war were improving the county, and the socialist controlled Duma did everything to hurt it marginalize.

The socialist controlled the media Russia played a big part pitting people against teach other. The communist agitated and then seized power.The Communist soon controlled or influenced the media of that era (Papers, books, plays, and the new-Radio craze of that time)

There were no police, no law enforcement. Mobs ruled the streets. Women were raped. crime increased exponentially. The Opposition were beaten or killed by manipulated mobs. There were condoned home invasions of opposition people live - and those that escaped were later hunted down as enemies of the state.

After this, the chaos became worse and the Communist took full control and turned against the soft and moderate socialist of the Duma and intelligentsia (elites) and branded them as enemies of the state and many were killed.

That is a historical summery of what actually happen and it was far worse than what I in bullet pint fashion touched on.

Almost nothing you wrote there is accurate. Where do you get this stuff?

B. W. wrote: ↑Sat Nov 10, 2018 3:15 pmWhile socialist ideas sound great and noble bit there are those poised to take advantage of the chaos these brings and make useful idiots out of all noble minded socialists.

What socialists? There are no socialists in mainstream American politics. None. At most there are a couple of social democrats - people who value both the free market economy and a strong social safety net. If they had their way America would be more like - brace yourself - Scandinavia.

It astounds me that you could possibly be so afraid of a handful of mild mannered social reformers with ideas like giving people free voter ID cards, expanding Medicaid to cover everyone, and lowering the cost of college tuition. Social democrats are not Bolsheviks, 2018 is not 1917, Congress is not the Duma, and the United States is not Russia.

B. W. wrote: ↑Sat Nov 10, 2018 3:15 pmThis is the same parallel we see today...

There are no parallels outside of your brain.

Here ya go

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/arch ... ory-lenin/

And for this comment Ed you just earned a permanent ban as well as others directed at me personally which is forum rule violations for regarding degrading comments...

edwardmurphy" wrote:There are no parallels outside of your brain.

B. W. wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 10:06 amAnd for this comment Ed you just earned a permanent ban as well as others directed at me personally which is forum rule violations for regarding degrading comments...

edwardmurphy" wrote:There are no parallels outside of your brain.

Really? For saying that the parallels that you see between the Russian Revolution and current American politics are a product of your imagination, and not grounded in reality?

B.W., your commentary on the Duma was factually incorrect. There were 4 Dumas between the time Nicholas II created the body and its formal dissolution in 1917. The first two were Dumas has a lot of left-wing members, but they only lasted 176 days between them. The 3rd and 4th Dumas, which lasted a combined 10 years - were dominated by rightists, rationalists, and constitutional monarchists. The socialists were barely even represented after 1907. The furthermore, the Duma did not outlaw the police or break the system by implementing welfare. Russia didn't collapse because soft socialists in the Duma were overwhelmed by communists. Your historical summary" was not historically accurate.

I'll grant you that there was lots of violence in the last days of the Russian Empire, and obviously the communists were behind a lot of it, but you completely misrepresented events leading up to that point, while also totally ignoring critical factors like government corruption and incompetence, the humiliating defeat in the Russo-Japanese War, the overall backwardness of the Russian economy, the frequent violence employed by the ruling classes, and their violent resistance to reform. There are reasons that the communists succeeded in Russia, but not in Britain, France, Germany, or the United States.

It seems like that comment, and perhaps others, struck a nerve, but it wasn't a personal attack. You seem to think that the world is a certain way, based on your understanding of history, politics, and current events. I think that your understanding of history, politics, and current events is negatively impacted by your strongly held, personal beliefs about the world. I think that you have are extremely susceptible to conspiracy theories and lies that mesh with your preconceived notions of how the world works, and extremely resistant to any information, no matter how well established, that casts doubt on your worldview. And I think that because I've been sparring with you for five years, and I've been paying attention that whole time.

You might not find my assessment of your thinking process flattering - and I wouldn't either were I in your shoes - but it's not an observation about your behavior, not a personal insult. You and I agreed to be civil a while back, and I think that I've upheld my end of the bargain. I've refrained from insults, name-calling, and personal attacks. I've still pushed back when I thought that your ideas were flawed and you were wrong, but I've done it respectfully. I thought that was the point of political debate. Apparently you disagree.