Re: Is Jesus God? And Why it Matters.

LonnieOwesn1973 · Post by **LonnieOwesn1973** » Fri Dec 06, 2019 7:19 am

PaulSacramento wrote: ↑Fri Dec 06, 2019 7:13 am
LonnieOwesn1973 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 06, 2019 7:10 am
PaulSacramento wrote: ↑Fri Dec 06, 2019 7:04 am
Jesus say, Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one's life for one's friends.
A fair quote.
And since God IS love then how do you explain that, in Jesus laying down His life for His friends, He is showing GREATER love than God since, of course, God has NEVER laid down HIS life for His friends.
That would make Jesus greater than God !

But He can't be because He was ONLY a Mortal Man.
NOT Divine.
NOT God.
Just Mortal Man.
lol it means that the greatest love a man can show another man is to die for him...
Man can show greater love than God ???
Dude...

Seriously... you missed the whole context...lol you can love someone but never be able to truly show it for them to understand so the greatest love a man can show is to die for him... the scripture doesn't imply a greater love than God... that is simply ludicrous and shows that you are not truly reading the scripture correctly ... I actually use the education I was given in school to read and understand what it means... sorry but if you are not willing to actually read a text then why jump into a discussion without an open mind??

LonnieOwesn1973 · Post by **LonnieOwesn1973** » Fri Dec 06, 2019 7:23 am

I thought this was a forum for learning and understanding not one where people attack people because they do not even take the time to see where the other person is coming from....

The topic is " Is Jesus God? and why it's important"

so far no one has presented anything remotely pointing to Jesus being God, being with God plenty of proof but not God himself...

PaulSacramento · Post by **PaulSacramento** » Fri Dec 06, 2019 7:28 am

LonnieOwesn1973 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 06, 2019 7:23 am I thought this was a forum for learning and understanding not one where people attack people because they do not even take the time to see where the other person is coming from....

The topic is " Is Jesus God? and why it's important"

so far no one has presented anything remotely pointing to Jesus being God, being with God plenty of proof but not God himself...

Seriously?
You have been shown EXPLICIT statements from the Gospel and John and the Apostle Paul.
You have shown the prophecy from Isaiah.
You have also been shown why Jesus MUST have the same nature as God.

That you disagree does NOT make you right and everyone else wrong, you realize that right?

PaulSacramento · Post by **PaulSacramento** » Fri Dec 06, 2019 7:33 am

LonnieOwesn1973 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 06, 2019 7:19 am
PaulSacramento wrote: ↑Fri Dec 06, 2019 7:13 am
LonnieOwesn1973 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 06, 2019 7:10 am
PaulSacramento wrote: ↑Fri Dec 06, 2019 7:04 am
Jesus say, Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one's life for one's friends.
A fair quote.
And since God IS love then how do you explain that, in Jesus laying down His life for His friends, He is showing GREATER love than God since, of course, God has NEVER laid down HIS life for His friends.
That would make Jesus greater than God !

But He can't be because He was ONLY a Mortal Man.
NOT Divine.
NOT God.
Just Mortal Man.
lol it means that the greatest love a man can show another man is to die for him...
Man can show greater love than God ???
Dude...
Seriously... you missed the whole context...lol you can love someone but never be able to truly show it for them to understand so the greatest love a man can show is to die for him... the scripture doesn't imply a greater love than God... that is simply ludicrous and shows that you are not truly reading the scripture correctly ... I actually use the education I was given in school to read and understand what it means... sorry but if you are not willing to actually read a text then why jump into a discussion without an open mind??

I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt one last time.

You have been shown clear and explicit statements about Jesus's deity.
It has been explained that Jesus being God is a statement of HIS NATURE and not that Jesus is His Father or something silly like that.

There are people here, including myself that actually have degrees in Theology so yes, we are educated on these things and we are trying our best to lead you to WHY Christian believe Jesus is God and WHAT that ACTUALLY means.

I was NOT a trinitarian, for sometime.
I didn't understand what it was and had many of the same mistaken views that you have, so I can understand it a bit.

The reality is that the bible is very clear that Jesus and His Father shared the exact same nature, which makes them BOTH GOD.

LonnieOwesn1973 · Post by **LonnieOwesn1973** » Fri Dec 06, 2019 7:42 am

I am going to go back a little bit because, in a conversation with my aunt, My aunt told me that I would speak to Jesus as if he were God in my younger days... But I am taking this at face value because I have no memory of my childhood at all for 1981 back...

My questions are simple, How can Man do greater things than God?
How can God die?
Why would God talk to himself?
simple questions that no one has answered....

the prophecy you speak of said the child's name would be Immanuel but yet an angel of the Lord said to call him Jesus?

RickD · Post by **RickD** » Fri Dec 06, 2019 7:47 am

PaulS wrote:
The reality is that the bible is very clear that Jesus and His Father shared the exact same nature, which makes them BOTH GOD.

Let the straw man polytheism posts begin...

LonnieOwesn1973 · Post by **LonnieOwesn1973** » Fri Dec 06, 2019 7:53 am

RickD wrote: ↑Fri Dec 06, 2019 7:47 am
PaulS wrote:
The reality is that the bible is very clear that Jesus and His Father shared the exact same nature, which makes them BOTH GOD.
Let the straw man polytheism posts begin...

Polytheism would mean 3 not one...

how can man do greater things than God?

John 14:12 Truly, truly, I say unto you, he who believes in Me, the works I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go to the Father.

LonnieOwesn1973 · Post by **LonnieOwesn1973** » Fri Dec 06, 2019 7:56 am

noun: polytheism- the belief in or worship of more than one god.
noun: monotheism- the doctrine or belief that there is only one God.

LonnieOwesn1973 · Post by **LonnieOwesn1973** » Fri Dec 06, 2019 8:02 am

another one....

Matthew 17:20 He replied, "Because you have so little faith. Truly I tell you, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there, and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you."

now how can a mere man will a mountain to move???

PaulSacramento · Post by **PaulSacramento** » Fri Dec 06, 2019 9:04 am

LonnieOwesn1973 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 06, 2019 7:42 am I am going to go back a little bit because, in a conversation with my aunt, My aunt told me that I would speak to Jesus as if he were God in my younger days... But I am taking this at face value because I have no memory of my childhood at all for 1981 back...

My questions are simple, How can Man do greater things than God?
How can God die?
Why would God talk to himself?
simple questions that no one has answered....

the prophecy you speak of said the child's name would be Immanuel but yet an angel of the Lord said to call him Jesus?

OK:
How can God die?
Jesus was God Incarnate ( And the Word became Flesh) and it was the flesh that died ( mortal form), His divine nature IS eternal.
Why would God talk to himself?
Jesus spoke to His Father and, while I am sure there were times He "talked to Himself" like we all do, Jesus talking to His father is not Him talking to Himself anymore than when You speak to YOUR Dad, you are talking to yourself.

LonnieOwesn1973 · Post by **LonnieOwesn1973** » Fri Dec 06, 2019 9:33 am

PaulSacramento wrote: ↑Fri Dec 06, 2019 9:04 am
LonnieOwesn1973 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 06, 2019 7:42 am I am going to go back a little bit because, in a conversation with my aunt, My aunt told me that I would speak to Jesus as if he were God in my younger days... But I am taking this at face value because I have no memory of my childhood at all for 1981 back...

My questions are simple, How can Man do greater things than God?
How can God die?
Why would God talk to himself?
simple questions that no one has answered....

the prophecy you speak of said the child's name would be Immanuel but yet an angel of the Lord said to call him Jesus?
OK:
How can God die?
Jesus was God Incarnate ( And the Word became Flesh) and it was the flesh that died ( mortal form), His divine nature IS eternal.
Why would God talk to himself?
Jesus spoke to His Father and, while I am sure there were times He "talked to Himself" like we all do, Jesus talking to His father is not Him talking to Himself anymore than when You speak to YOUR Dad, you are talking to yourself.

Good try on the first 2 but if the flesh died then it couldn't have been God dying because, popular belief is, Jesus died for our sins. So if Jesus is God and God cannot die, then Jesus did not die for our sins only his flesh died. Which would,mean that Jesus was not God at all only the messenger of God...

And I see you avoided my last question entirely...

How can man do greater things than God? If Jesus was God in the flesh?

PaulSacramento · Post by **PaulSacramento** » Fri Dec 06, 2019 10:09 am

So, you are actually going OUT OF YOUR WAY, to not understand.
Where in scripture does it say anything OTHER than Jesus died for Our Sins?

Are your having that hard of a time understanding that saying Jesus is GOD is a statement of Jesus' nature ??

Please answer this:

If Jesus is NOT God, then WHAT IS He?

RickD · Post by **RickD** » Fri Dec 06, 2019 10:18 am

LonnieOwesn1973 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 06, 2019 9:33 am
PaulSacramento wrote: ↑Fri Dec 06, 2019 9:04 am
LonnieOwesn1973 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 06, 2019 7:42 am I am going to go back a little bit because, in a conversation with my aunt, My aunt told me that I would speak to Jesus as if he were God in my younger days... But I am taking this at face value because I have no memory of my childhood at all for 1981 back...

My questions are simple, How can Man do greater things than God?
How can God die?
Why would God talk to himself?
simple questions that no one has answered....

the prophecy you speak of said the child's name would be Immanuel but yet an angel of the Lord said to call him Jesus?
OK:
How can God die?
Jesus was God Incarnate ( And the Word became Flesh) and it was the flesh that died ( mortal form), His divine nature IS eternal.
Why would God talk to himself?
Jesus spoke to His Father and, while I am sure there were times He "talked to Himself" like we all do, Jesus talking to His father is not Him talking to Himself anymore than when You speak to YOUR Dad, you are talking to yourself.
Good try on the first 2 but if the flesh died then it couldn't have been God dying because, popular belief is, Jesus died for our sins. So if Jesus is God and God cannot die, then Jesus did not die for our sins only his flesh died. Which would,mean that Jesus was not God at all only the messenger of God...

And I see you avoided my last question entirely...

How can man do greater things than God? If Jesus was God in the flesh?

Lonnie,

This link explains how If Jesus is God, how can He, as God, die?

If you have questions, ask. Don't assume. If you don't understand and need clarification, don't just brush it aside. Your lack of understanding, doesn't mean it's wrong.

LonnieOwesn1973 · Post by **LonnieOwesn1973** » Fri Dec 06, 2019 10:32 am

RickD wrote: ↑Fri Dec 06, 2019 10:18 am
LonnieOwesn1973 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 06, 2019 9:33 am
PaulSacramento wrote: ↑Fri Dec 06, 2019 9:04 am
LonnieOwesn1973 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 06, 2019 7:42 am I am going to go back a little bit because, in a conversation with my aunt, My aunt told me that I would speak to Jesus as if he were God in my younger days... But I am taking this at face value because I have no memory of my childhood at all for 1981 back...

My questions are simple, How can Man do greater things than God?
How can God die?
Why would God talk to himself?
simple questions that no one has answered....

the prophecy you speak of said the child's name would be Immanuel but yet an angel of the Lord said to call him Jesus?
OK:
How can God die?
Jesus was God Incarnate ( And the Word became Flesh) and it was the flesh that died ( mortal form), His divine nature IS eternal.
Why would God talk to himself?
Jesus spoke to His Father and, while I am sure there were times He "talked to Himself" like we all do, Jesus talking to His father is not Him talking to Himself anymore than when You speak to YOUR Dad, you are talking to yourself.
Good try on the first 2 but if the flesh died then it couldn't have been God dying because, popular belief is, Jesus died for our sins. So if Jesus is God and God cannot die, then Jesus did not die for our sins only his flesh died. Which would,mean that Jesus was not God at all only the messenger of God...

And I see you avoided my last question entirely...

How can man do greater things than God? If Jesus was God in the flesh?
Lonnie,

This link explains how If Jesus is God, how can He, as God, die?

If you have questions, ask. Don't assume. If you don't understand and need clarification, don't just brush it aside. Your lack of understanding, doesn't mean it's wrong.

Lack of understanding???? Talk about shallow... If you cannot explain how God can die theb why should I go look at someone else's work??? I am asking you now whoever wrote it...

The thing is I actually do take into account everything being presented... You are attacking because you cannot answer the questions being presented to you...

I'll give you an easier question then...

How can man do greater things than God???

Should be easy as long as you can find someone else to explain it for you... Just saying....

LonnieOwesn1973 · Post by **LonnieOwesn1973** » Fri Dec 06, 2019 10:34 am

PaulSacramento wrote: ↑Fri Dec 06, 2019 10:09 am So, you are actually going OUT OF YOUR WAY, to not understand.
Where in scripture does it say anything OTHER than Jesus died for Our Sins?

Are your having that hard of a time understanding that saying Jesus is GOD is a statement of Jesus' nature ??

Please answer this:

If Jesus is NOT God, then WHAT IS He?

Going out of my way??? I am quoting from memory... Don't have to go put of my way...

Like I did for Rick I will give you a simple one..

How can man do greater things than God?

Should be easily explained...

Evidence for God from Science