Re: Is Jesus God? And Why it Matters.

General discussions about Christianity including salvation, heaven and hell, Christian history and so on.
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LonnieOwesn1973
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Re: Re: Is Jesus God? And Why it Matters.

#61

Post by LonnieOwesn1973 » Tue Dec 03, 2019 4:30 am

RickD wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 6:48 pm
Lonnie,

You're not giving much, if anything from scripture, that backs what you're asserting.

"Because I said so" is really not an argument for your position.
Hello again sorry about last night and Rick, apparently you didn't read post #25

#25

Post by LonnieOwesn1973 » Mon Dec 02, 2019 6:15 am ...

And what people believe is not opinion because it it were then all would be lost....

Furthermore, Respect is a form of Love and if you do not respect then you are not being a Christian and following Christ....

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Re: Re: Is Jesus God? And Why it Matters.

#62

Post by LonnieOwesn1973 » Tue Dec 03, 2019 4:37 am

Can someone do me a big favor and just post the book, chapter and verses example John 1:1 with out the actual wording of the verse ... my computer is acting up and trying to go back and forth to write them down it keeps locking up... it's an old laptop lol still debugging it... Thanks in advance...

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Re: Re: Is Jesus God? And Why it Matters.

#63

Post by RickD » Tue Dec 03, 2019 4:54 am

LonnieOwesn1973 wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 4:30 am
RickD wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 6:48 pm
Lonnie,

You're not giving much, if anything from scripture, that backs what you're asserting.

"Because I said so" is really not an argument for your position.
Hello again sorry about last night and Rick, apparently you didn't read post #25

#25

Post by LonnieOwesn1973 » Mon Dec 02, 2019 6:15 am ...

And what people believe is not opinion because it it were then all would be lost....

Furthermore, Respect is a form of Love and if you do not respect then you are not being a Christian and following Christ....
I did read post #25. I said that you're not giving scripture that backs your assertions .

The scripture that you used in post #25, is John 1:1, which says that Jesus Christ is God.

And I'm not sure what you're railing on about respect for, because we respect you enough to give be you the truth. Your false Christ can't save, and you need to see that.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



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Re: Re: Is Jesus God? And Why it Matters.

#64

Post by LonnieOwesn1973 » Tue Dec 03, 2019 5:11 am

RickD wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 4:54 am
LonnieOwesn1973 wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 4:30 am
RickD wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 6:48 pm
Lonnie,

You're not giving much, if anything from scripture, that backs what you're asserting.

"Because I said so" is really not an argument for your position.
Hello again sorry about last night and Rick, apparently you didn't read post #25

#25

Post by LonnieOwesn1973 » Mon Dec 02, 2019 6:15 am ...

And what people believe is not opinion because it it were then all would be lost....

Furthermore, Respect is a form of Love and if you do not respect then you are not being a Christian and following Christ....
I did read post #25. I said that you're not giving scripture that backs your assertions .

The scripture that you used in post #25, is John 1:1, which says that Jesus Christ is God.

And I'm not sure what you're railing on about respect for, because we respect you enough to give be you the truth. Your false Christ can't save, and you need to see that.
Ok we will get the opinion part out of the way first so that it is clarified...

an opinion is a belief that something is right based upon the material given and interpreted hence when someone says' they do not believe that Jesus is God it is their belief that< from the materials presented and the guidance provided that they have drawn a conclusion....

so, by that definition, it is what I believe to be true as it is my views on the subject...

I am straight forward myself ... being with God and being God are two different things.... Like I said before, Satan was with God from the beginning until he fell, does that make him God??? No it does not...

and when God himself says " Behold my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased." That is not God stating that he came down because he sent his Son. When Jesus himself says " For God so loved the world that he sent his only Begotten Son" you ignore that aspect as well...

If you cannot accept all the evidence, in Scripture and in Christs own word, or even at most consider it, then what is the point of Having this conversation....

so instead of all of us giving our opinions as to why scripture tells each of of something different lets get to the Fact.... Did Jesus ever state "I am God"? no opinions just a straight answer...

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Re: Re: Is Jesus God? And Why it Matters.

#65

Post by LonnieOwesn1973 » Tue Dec 03, 2019 5:24 am

so when I ask question it is not a sign of resistance it is a sign of growing and understanding in knowledge... Because by the responses I have been given I could come up wit a thousand different meanings and reasons for the very same verses that are being presented but I don't I ask for clarification so that I can better understand where you are coming from and how you came to your belief...

"just read John 1:1" is not an explanation of how you came to your belief it is telling me that you want me to read it and come to my own conclusion...

now when I quote a verse "Behold my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased" I state that that is God himself proclaiming that Christ is Just his son...

Just two examples of how I have explained how I came to my beliefs and understandings...

sure I jut threw verses in without explanation because that is how it is being done to me...

Sorry but a lot does not sit well when coming to a conclusion when you are only given a scripture and not the reasoning behind why the scripture was given because it doesn't work that way...

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Re: Is Jesus God? And Why it Matters.

#66

Post by RickD » Tue Dec 03, 2019 5:32 am

Lonnie wrote:
Did Jesus ever state "I am God"? no opinions just a straight answer...
Well, ok then.

I'm done with this conversation. It's clear that you really have no intention of having an honest conversation.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

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Re: Is Jesus God? And Why it Matters.

#67

Post by LonnieOwesn1973 » Tue Dec 03, 2019 5:42 am

RickD wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 5:32 am
Lonnie wrote:
Did Jesus ever state "I am God"? no opinions just a straight answer...
Well, ok then.

I'm done with this conversation. It's clear that you really have no intention of having an honest conversation.
Time out lol you are done because I want a serious and respectful conversation with the actual passing of knowledge????

you answered that very same question in a private message but you are afraid to answer it here??? and you answered it honestly as well...

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Re: Re: Is Jesus God? And Why it Matters.

#68

Post by LonnieOwesn1973 » Tue Dec 03, 2019 6:15 am

and to me, just the way I see it, when a person says something and claims it to be true but yet refuses to give a reason why they believe it to be true, shows me that they don't believe it to be true or are unwilling to share for fear of more questions..

Questions are a how we learn and grow as people and as Christians... So when asked a question it is respectful to give how you came to your conclusion...

now when I ask for the scripture that Jesus states he is God, that is a direct question because there is no such scripture, Now there are several scriptures where people believe he alluded to it and in fact there is one scripture where the jews picked up stones and he asked why they were gonna stone him and they replyed because they thought he was making himself out to be God. John 10:33 The Jews answered Him, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God.”

this would be the time where Jesus would have made such a statement... he didn't even allude to it...

but I am willing to explore evryones views because that is the Christian thing to do... James , the Brother of Christ, said James 5:19,20 19 My brethren, if any among you strays from the truth and one turns him back, 20 let him know that [a]he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.

in order to turn someone from the errors of there ways and bring them back to the truth you have to give them reason for why they are wrong by explaining how you believe they have strayed and give your interpretation to any scripture you present to show them...

you cannot change anyone's mind, but you can give them the information and plant the seed and it is up to them to decide based on your views and interpretations...Plant the seed and it will either grow or it wont...

The parable of the Sower by Christ... Mark 4:1-9
1 He began to teach again by the sea. And such a very large crowd gathered to Him that He got into a boat in the sea and sat down; and the whole crowd was by the sea on the land. 2 And He was teaching them many things in parables, and was saying to them in His teaching, 3 “Listen to this! Behold, the sower went out to sow; 4 as he was sowing, some seed fell beside the road, and the birds came and ate it up. 5 Other seed fell on the rocky ground where it did not have much soil; and immediately it sprang up because it had no depth of soil. 6 And after the sun had risen, it was scorched; and because it had no root, it withered away. 7 Other seed fell among the thorns, and the thorns came up and choked it, and it yielded no crop. 8 Other seeds fell into the good soil, and as they grew up and increased, they yielded a crop and produced thirty, sixty, and a hundredfold.” 9 And He was saying, “He who has ears to hear, [a]let him hear.”

The explanation Makr 4:13-20 "13 And He *said to them, “Do you not understand this parable? How will you understand all the parables? 14 The sower sows the word. 15 These are the ones who are beside the road where the word is sown; and when they hear, immediately Satan comes and takes away the word which has been sown in them. 16 In a similar way these are the ones on whom seed was sown on the rocky places, who, when they hear the word, immediately receive it with joy; 17 and they have no firm root in themselves, but are only temporary; then, when affliction or persecution arises because of the word, immediately they [c]fall away. 18 And others are the ones on whom seed was sown among the thorns; these are the ones who have heard the word, 19 but the worries of the [d]world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the desires for other things enter in and choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful. 20 And those are the ones on whom seed was sown on the good soil; and they hear the word and accept it and bear fruit, thirty, sixty, and a hundredfold.”

the explanation Jesus gave was solid...

even the disciples were confused because they asked him questions about what he meant...

So when someone is trying to learn and they do not understand they ask questions so don't get offended or frustrated when you are asked question please.. and this goes to all who are reading not just a single person.

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Re: Re: Is Jesus God? And Why it Matters.

#69

Post by DBowling » Tue Dec 03, 2019 7:30 am

LonnieOwesn1973 wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 5:11 am
Did Jesus ever state "I am God"? no opinions just a straight answer...
Yes...
Matthew 12:8
"For the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath.
Lord of the Sabbath = Yahweh = God
John 8:58
Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!”
I AM = Yahweh = God

I don't know what you are questioning here.
Do you believe that YHWH/Yahweh/Jehovah is God?
now when I quote a verse "Behold my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased" I state that that is God himself proclaiming that Christ is Just his son...
Yes Jesus Christ is the one and only Son of God.
Which is yet another Scriptural testimony to the Divinity of Jesus.
As John 5:18 points out, when Jesus claimed that God was his Father, he was claiming to be equal with God
18 For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.
This is yet another place where Jesus claims to be equal with God.

And then verses like John 1:1 just seal the deal even more...
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:1 doesn't leave any room for doubt, it just comes out and says it.
The Word (Jesus) WAS God

The Word of God says that Jesus is God in multiple places.
I don't understand why you refuse to accept what the Word of God says about Jesus.

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Re: Is Jesus God? And Why it Matters.

#70

Post by RickD » Tue Dec 03, 2019 7:50 am

Lonnie wrote:
and to me, just the way I see it, when a person says something and claims it to be true but yet refuses to give a reason why they believe it to be true, shows me that they don't believe it to be true or are unwilling to share for fear of more questions..
I think you need to reread the responses in this thread. The verses that were given, have explanations. Either you're ignoring the explanations, or you just refuse to accept them.

It's extremely frustrating when you keep saying that Jesus doesn't say, "I am God".

Think about it this way...

If I say that I'm a 50 year old male human being, and you say, you never say "I am a man", so you refuse to believe that I said I'm a man.

It's an extremely dishonest way to have a conversation. People have taken the time to explain meanings of verses, and you still say that people aren't explaining the verses.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

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Re: Is Jesus God? And Why it Matters.

#71

Post by Philip » Tue Dec 03, 2019 8:03 am

Lonnie, DB is correct - you HAVE been give ample reasons for why Christians believe Jesus is God. And BILLIONS of Christians over time have held to this belief. Do you really think God, if He did not want us to believe Jesus to be God, would have left such passages all across the New Testament??? Would Jesus have accepted WORSHIP, if He were not God - as that would have been a great blashphemy! Again, Jesus was sinless - how so, as only God is sinless - which is why He was the perfect, unblemished Lamb that paid the price for our sins!

Consider, as the following from MoodyBible.org sums all of the evidence up for Jesus' Deity!

The names of God are often applied to Jesus. He is called "the Mighty God, the Everlasting Father" and "Immanuel" (meaning "God with us").2 Elsewhere Jesus is called "The Lord (Jehovah) our Righteousness," "God" and "Son of God."3

The Bible ascribes the characteristics of deity to Jesus Christ.
He is described as eternal, omnipresent, omniscient, omnipotent and immutable.4

Jesus Christ is equal with God the Father. He is worshiped as God.5 His name is assigned equal standing with God the Father in the church's baptismal formula and in the apostolic benediction.6

Christ performed works which only God can do. He is creator.7 He is the upholder of all things.8 He forgives sin.9 He will raise the dead and execute judgment.10

Jesus Christ Himself claimed deity. He taught His disciples to pray in His name.11 He claimed that He and the Father were one and that He was the Son of God.12 He claimed that to know Him was to know God, to see Him was to see God, to receive Him was to receive God, to believe Him was to believe in God and to honor Him was to honor God, while to hate Him was to hate God.13

(https://www.moodybible.org/beliefs/posi ... us-christ/)

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Re: Is Jesus God? And Why it Matters.

#72

Post by LonnieOwesn1973 » Tue Dec 03, 2019 8:36 am

Philip wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 8:03 am
Lonnie, DB is correct - you HAVE been give ample reasons for why Christians believe Jesus is God. And BILLIONS of Christians over time have held to this belief. Do you really think God, if He did not want us to believe Jesus to be God, would have left such passages all across the New Testament??? Would Jesus have accepted WORSHIP, if He were not God - as that would have been a great blashphemy! Again, Jesus was sinless - how so, as only God is sinless - which is why He was the perfect, unblemished Lamb that paid the price for our sins!

Consider, as the following from MoodyBible.org sums all of the evidence up for Jesus' Deity!

The names of God are often applied to Jesus. He is called "the Mighty God, the Everlasting Father" and "Immanuel" (meaning "God with us").2 Elsewhere Jesus is called "The Lord (Jehovah) our Righteousness," "God" and "Son of God."3

The Bible ascribes the characteristics of deity to Jesus Christ.
He is described as eternal, omnipresent, omniscient, omnipotent and immutable.4

Jesus Christ is equal with God the Father. He is worshiped as God.5 His name is assigned equal standing with God the Father in the church's baptismal formula and in the apostolic benediction.6

Christ performed works which only God can do. He is creator.7 He is the upholder of all things.8 He forgives sin.9 He will raise the dead and execute judgment.10

Jesus Christ Himself claimed deity. He taught His disciples to pray in His name.11 He claimed that He and the Father were one and that He was the Son of God.12 He claimed that to know Him was to know God, to see Him was to see God, to receive Him was to receive God, to believe Him was to believe in God and to honor Him was to honor God, while to hate Him was to hate God.13

(https://www.moodybible.org/beliefs/posi ... us-christ/)
Scripture is one thing but no one has given anything other than that...

I have no issue with scripture at all but apparently no one will explain how they came abput their interpretations of Scripture ...

Like I said, wheb I give scripture I try to explain how I came to,my conclusion, I did not ever say "because I said so" nor did I employ it...

The disciples asked Jesus all the time to clarify so that they could better understand...

So when I ask for clarification I don't want scripture as an answer I want the individuals views as to how they xame to their conclusion...

I guess no one actually reads a post unless the can refute ... Love the site but the communication in posts and comments feel one sided because in order to gain a better understanding one must clarify what they are saying and how they came tho their conclusion...

Not being mean but been teaching people almost my entire adult life about one thing of another.

If someone asks me, specifically, how I came to my conclusion I have no issues explaining because that is how we learn...

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Re: Is Jesus God? And Why it Matters.

#73

Post by LonnieOwesn1973 » Tue Dec 03, 2019 8:40 am

RickD wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 7:50 am
Lonnie wrote:
and to me, just the way I see it, when a person says something and claims it to be true but yet refuses to give a reason why they believe it to be true, shows me that they don't believe it to be true or are unwilling to share for fear of more questions..
I think you need to reread the responses in this thread. The verses that were given, have explanations. Either you're ignoring the explanations, or you just refuse to accept them.

It's extremely frustrating when you keep saying that Jesus doesn't say, "I am God".

Think about it this way...

If I say that I'm a 50 year old male human being, and you say, you never say "I am a man", so you refuse to believe that I said I'm a man.

It's an extremely dishonest way to have a conversation. People have taken the time to explain meanings of verses, and you still say that people aren't explaining the verses.
Male, when referring to humans, quite literally means man ...

Son of God quite literally means Son of God not God...

And yes I have read all the responses, but I will go back and reread them just to be fair...

So would someone please explain to my why God would ask God whay has he forsaken himself???

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Re: Re: Is Jesus God? And Why it Matters.

#74

Post by LonnieOwesn1973 » Tue Dec 03, 2019 8:41 am

Meant why not what lol loaded thus on my phone so not the best idea lol

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Re: Re: Is Jesus God? And Why it Matters.

#75

Post by LonnieOwesn1973 » Tue Dec 03, 2019 8:42 am

Why not whay, I am haitjng this auto correct.

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