Many Atheists DO Believe in the Supernatural

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Re: Many Atheists DO Believe in the Supernatural

#151

Post by RickD » Sat Jun 29, 2019 3:53 am

Kenny wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 4:45 pm
RickD wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 1:05 pm
Kenny wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 11:28 am
PaulSacramento wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 6:27 am
Ken,
You are being intellectually lazy.
There is no evidence that leads us to believe that material things are unchangeable, unmovable and eternal and there is abundant evidence AND facts that tell us otherwise.
There is no evidence that leads us to believe that the spiritual world even exists; let alone is unchangeable, unmovable, and eternal.
Here, FIFY:
There is no evidence that leads us ME to believe that the spiritual world even exists; let alone is unchangeable, unmovable, and eternal.
If you choose to ignore the evidence, that's your prerogative. But please don't include the rest of "us" in your spiritual blindness.
When Paul said "us" I assumed he meant mankind rather than the people who visit this forum
And if he did, so what? Your statement certainly doesn't apply to all mankind.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



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Re: Many Atheists DO Believe in the Supernatural

#152

Post by Kenny » Sat Jun 29, 2019 5:03 am

RickD wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 3:53 am
Kenny wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 4:45 pm
RickD wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 1:05 pm
Kenny wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 11:28 am
PaulSacramento wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 6:27 am
Ken,
You are being intellectually lazy.
There is no evidence that leads us to believe that material things are unchangeable, unmovable and eternal and there is abundant evidence AND facts that tell us otherwise.
There is no evidence that leads us to believe that the spiritual world even exists; let alone is unchangeable, unmovable, and eternal.
Here, FIFY:
There is no evidence that leads us ME to believe that the spiritual world even exists; let alone is unchangeable, unmovable, and eternal.
If you choose to ignore the evidence, that's your prerogative. But please don't include the rest of "us" in your spiritual blindness.
When Paul said "us" I assumed he meant mankind rather than the people who visit this forum
And if he did, so what? Your statement certainly doesn't apply to all mankind.
Neither did his.
RickD wrote
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence".

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Re: Many Atheists DO Believe in the Supernatural

#153

Post by Kenny » Sat Jun 29, 2019 6:50 am

abelcainsbrother wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 6:05 pm
This is what happens when a person chooses to live out there life as an atheist without any evidence they are correct.Kenny here just goes on his personal opinion and because he accepted atheism without any evidence it is correct
Nearly every time you post it becomes more and more obvious you have no idea what it means to be atheist. And as many times as I have told you, yet you keep coming up with "zingers" like this; it's obvious you have no interest in learning.
RickD wrote
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence".

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Re: Many Atheists DO Believe in the Supernatural

#154

Post by Kenny » Sat Jun 29, 2019 6:50 am

Philip wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 6:16 pm
I never did see Ken respond to why he has zero interest in the research about near death experiences???
How about if you do the research, then tell me about it.
RickD wrote
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence".

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Re: Many Atheists DO Believe in the Supernatural

#155

Post by RickD » Sat Jun 29, 2019 7:36 am

Kenny wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 6:50 am
abelcainsbrother wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 6:05 pm
This is what happens when a person chooses to live out there life as an atheist without any evidence they are correct.Kenny here just goes on his personal opinion and because he accepted atheism without any evidence it is correct
Nearly every time you post it becomes more and more obvious you have no idea what it means to be atheist. And as many times as I have told you, yet you keep coming up with "zingers" like this; it's obvious you have no interest in learning.
Actually,

ACB makes a really good point. There is absolutely no evidence that God doesn't exist.

And for a materialist, isn't scientific evidence all that you choose to accept?
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

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Re: Many Atheists DO Believe in the Supernatural

#156

Post by Kenny » Sat Jun 29, 2019 9:33 am

Kenny wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 6:50 am
abelcainsbrother wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 6:05 pm
This is what happens when a person chooses to live out there life as an atheist without any evidence they are correct.Kenny here just goes on his personal opinion and because he accepted atheism without any evidence it is correct
Nearly every time you post it becomes more and more obvious you have no idea what it means to be atheist. And as many times as I have told you, yet you keep coming up with "zingers" like this; it's obvious you have no interest in learning.
RickD wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 7:36 am
Actually,

ACB makes a really good point.
Whaaattt??!!! :esurprised:
RickD wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 7:36 am
There is absolutely no evidence that God doesn't exist.
The idea that atheists believe God does not exist is a flawed concept because atheism doesn't only apply to Christianity, it applies to all religions; thus there is no consensus on what constitutes God. Because what many theists call God do exist, an atheist isn't going to deny it's existence simply because someone chooses to call it God, that's why it is more accurate to say an atheist is just someone who doesn't believe in any God, rather than claim he says it doesn't exist.
RickD wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 7:36 am
And for a materialist, isn't scientific evidence all that you choose to accept?
No. C'mon Rick we've been over all of this already!
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Re: Many Atheists DO Believe in the Supernatural

#157

Post by RickD » Sat Jun 29, 2019 10:25 am

Kenny wrote:
The idea that atheists believe God does not exist is a flawed concept...
I agree. Atheism is a flawed concept.
atheism doesn't only apply to Christianity, it applies to all religions;
Theism is the belief in a transcendent, creator God, who sustains His creation.

And atheism is the belief that, God as a transcendent, creator and sustainer doesn't exist.

So atheism would apply to all religions with a transcendent, creator, sustainer God, such as Christianity, Judaism, and Islam.
Because what many theists call God do exist, an atheist isn't going to deny it's existence simply because someone chooses to call it God, that's why it is more accurate to say an atheist is just someone who doesn't believe in any God, rather than claim he says it doesn't exist.
No Kenny. You don't even know what Theism is.
Do you realize how stupid you sound when your entire atheistic worldview is based on a false definition of Theism?

You're arguing against a straw man.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

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Re: Many Atheists DO Believe in the Supernatural

#158

Post by Kenny » Sat Jun 29, 2019 7:08 pm

Kenny wrote:
The idea that atheists believe God does not exist is a flawed concept...
RickD wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 10:25 am
I agree. Atheism is a flawed concept.
You really don’t listen to anything I say do you.
atheism doesn't only apply to Christianity, it applies to all religions;
RickD wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 10:25 am
Theism is the belief in a transcendent, creator God, who sustains His creation.
No, as you can see from the definition below, theism may include what you described, but it is not limited to what you described.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theism

If you disagree with the above definition, please provide a definition that refutes it.
RickD wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 10:25 am
And atheism is the belief that, God as a transcendent, creator and sustainer doesn't exist.
No. As you can see from the below definition, atheist is just the rejection of God belief. That’s it!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theism
Because what many theists call God do exist, an atheist isn't going to deny it's existence simply because someone chooses to call it God, that's why it is more accurate to say an atheist is just someone who doesn't believe in any God, rather than claim he says it doesn't exist.
RickD wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 10:25 am
No Kenny. You don't even know what Theism is.
Do you realize how stupid you sound when your entire atheistic worldview is based on a false definition of Theism?
Can you provide a definition that supports your definition and refutes mine? Or are we just supposed to take your word for it.
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Re: Many Atheists DO Believe in the Supernatural

#159

Post by RickD » Sun Jun 30, 2019 6:05 am

Kenny wrote:
No. As you can see from the below definition, atheist is just the rejection of God belief. That’s it!
Yes Kenny. Atheism is a rejection of the belief in God.

If I reject a belief in someone or something, that means I don't believe it exists. In other words, someone who rejects a belief in God, believes that God doesn't exist.

The same as rejecting a belief in anything else.
I reject a belief in unicorns. I believe that unicorns do not exist.

I reject a belief in a flat earth. I believe a flat earth doesn't exist.

I reject panspermia. I do not believe that aliens brought life to earth.
kenny wrote:
Because what many theists call God do exist, an atheist isn't going to deny it's existence simply because someone chooses to call it God, that's why it is more accurate to say an atheist is just someone who doesn't believe in any God, rather than claim he says it doesn't exist.
Read the part of your quote that I underlined.

You said "an atheist is just someone who doesn't believe in any God, rather than claim he says it doesn't exist."

Kenny, you realize that the definition of "believe in" in the context we are using, means "have faith in the truth or existence of."

So, when you say that an atheist is someone who doesn't believe in any God, you are saying that an atheist doesn't believe any God exists.

And when someone says that he doesn't believe any God exists, that's the same as saying that he believes God doesn't exist.

"I don't believe unicorns exist." Is the same as saying, "I believe unicorns don't exist."
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

Kenny
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Re: Many Atheists DO Believe in the Supernatural

#160

Post by Kenny » Sun Jun 30, 2019 8:50 am

RickD wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 6:05 am
Kenny wrote:
No. As you can see from the below definition, atheist is just the rejection of God belief. That’s it!
Yes Kenny. Atheism is a rejection of the belief in God.

If I reject a belief in someone or something, that means I don't believe it exists. In other words, someone who rejects a belief in God, believes that God doesn't exist.

The same as rejecting a belief in anything else.
I reject a belief in unicorns. I believe that unicorns do not exist.

I reject a belief in a flat earth. I believe a flat earth doesn't exist.

I reject panspermia. I do not believe that aliens brought life to earth.
kenny wrote:
Because what many theists call God do exist, an atheist isn't going to deny it's existence simply because someone chooses to call it God, that's why it is more accurate to say an atheist is just someone who doesn't believe in any God, rather than claim he says it doesn't exist.
Read the part of your quote that I underlined.

You said "an atheist is just someone who doesn't believe in any God, rather than claim he says it doesn't exist."

Kenny, you realize that the definition of "believe in" in the context we are using, means "have faith in the truth or existence of."

So, when you say that an atheist is someone who doesn't believe in any God, you are saying that an atheist doesn't believe any God exists.



And when someone says that he doesn't believe any God exists, that's the same as saying that he believes God doesn't exist.

"I don't believe unicorns exist." Is the same as saying, "I believe unicorns don't exist."

According to the Dictionary, “to believe in” means

1.To regard as true or real
2.To have confidence in the truthfulness of
3.To have an opinion
4.To view in a certain way
5.To regard in an appraising way

https://www.thefreedictionary.com/believe+in
As you see above, existence is not mentioned. As I’ve said many times before, “to say I don’t believe in “X” means I don’t believe the claims made of “X”. This seems to fall in line with the first and second definition according to the dictionary.
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Re: Many Atheists DO Believe in the Supernatural

#161

Post by RickD » Sun Jun 30, 2019 9:33 am

Kenny,

You are the most obtuse person I have ever known.

From your own example of the definition of "believe in", the #1 definition is:
To regard as true or real
And guess what the definition of "real" is?

It means, "actually existing".

You're arguing semantics, to claim that atheism isn't a belief.

And to everyone reading, you're failing miserably.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

Kenny
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Re: Many Atheists DO Believe in the Supernatural

#162

Post by Kenny » Sun Jun 30, 2019 10:04 am

RickD wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 9:33 am
Kenny,

You are the most obtuse person I have ever known.

From your own example of the definition of "believe in", the #1 definition is:
To regard as true or real
And guess what the definition of "real" is?

It means, "actually existing".

You're arguing semantics, to claim that atheism isn't a belief.

And to everyone reading, you're failing miserably.
Insults aside, there is a big difference between true OR real vs true AND real.
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Re: Many Atheists DO Believe in the Supernatural

#163

Post by RickD » Sun Jun 30, 2019 10:14 am

Kenny wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 10:04 am
RickD wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 9:33 am
Kenny,

You are the most obtuse person I have ever known.

From your own example of the definition of "believe in", the #1 definition is:
To regard as true or real
And guess what the definition of "real" is?

It means, "actually existing".

You're arguing semantics, to claim that atheism isn't a belief.

And to everyone reading, you're failing miserably.
Insults aside, there is a big difference between true OR real vs true AND real.
:pound:

Keep telling yourself that, Kenny.

And btw, calling you obtuse, isn't meant as an insult. I guess I have to explain what obtuse means. By calling you obtuse, I'm saying that you are extremely slow to understand.

It's meant as a blunt statement, not an insult.


If instead, I had called you a f'ing moron, that would be an insult*.





*An insult to morons everywhere.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

Kenny
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Re: Many Atheists DO Believe in the Supernatural

#164

Post by Kenny » Sun Jun 30, 2019 10:35 am

RickD wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 10:14 am
Kenny wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 10:04 am
RickD wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 9:33 am
Kenny,

You are the most obtuse person I have ever known.

From your own example of the definition of "believe in", the #1 definition is:
To regard as true or real
And guess what the definition of "real" is?

It means, "actually existing".

You're arguing semantics, to claim that atheism isn't a belief.

And to everyone reading, you're failing miserably.
Insults aside, there is a big difference between true OR real vs true AND real.
:pound:

Keep telling yourself that, Kenny.
Do you agree or do I need to explain the difference to you?
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Re: Many Atheists DO Believe in the Supernatural

#165

Post by RickD » Sun Jun 30, 2019 10:46 am

Kenny wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 10:35 am
RickD wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 10:14 am
Kenny wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 10:04 am
RickD wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 9:33 am
Kenny,

You are the most obtuse person I have ever known.

From your own example of the definition of "believe in", the #1 definition is:
To regard as true or real
And guess what the definition of "real" is?

It means, "actually existing".

You're arguing semantics, to claim that atheism isn't a belief.

And to everyone reading, you're failing miserably.
Insults aside, there is a big difference between true OR real vs true AND real.
:pound:

Keep telling yourself that, Kenny.
Do you agree or do I need to explain the difference to you?
When something is regarded as true or real, the words "true" and "real" are synonyms, in that context.
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Kenny wrote:
"You don’t need faith, logic, reason, proof, or anything else to be atheist, all you need to do is reject what someone told you."



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony

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